Bayonetta as a role model

[Rachel317]

I search bar-ed this and didn't find anything similar, but I apologise if it's been done before.

Alright, on to the topic at hand! So, amazingly, I only just played Bayonetta (I know, disgusting, right???) and I really love Bayonetta both as a character and as a role model.
I know my argument is quite long, but I've tried to split it up into as many purdy, bite-sized chunks as possible, so you can pick and choose which, if any, you'd care to read, and to avoid the first post being a RIDICULOUS length.
NOTE: None of the [spoilers] contain any spoilers

Spoiler: Sexuality

Bayonetta does not shy away from her sexuality. Bayonetta HERSELF isn't particularly sexually OTT. She's presented in that way, for sure, but other than a few suggestive comments directed towards the Angels, her character doesn't actually revolve around sex. In fact, she only references the act of sex ONCE throughout the game. If her character had this sexual element but she was presented in a similar way to modern-day Lara Croft, perhaps, then maybe people would be able to take her more seriously.
Honestly, take away the sheer quantity of fan service, and she's a decent, well-rounded character. It's just a shame they steeped the game in so much fan service =/

Spoiler: Independence

Bayonetta is a (mentally and emotionally) strong. powerful, highly independent woman. Even Lara Croft has males at her side, helping her (not an attack on Lara, she's a legend in her own right, just referencing her mentor, Zip and Alistair, primarily). Sure, Bayonetta has Luka (and Rodin and Enzo to a certain extent, although they can largely be ignored, because they don't affect gameplay), but he's only really there to look after Cereza when Bayonetta is kicking Angel arse. She is completely independent and, on the odd occasions when she fights with a partner, it is always Jeanne. Platinum Games presents an environment that truly is a "Woman's World"; even Jubileus, the Creator, is a female, whereas the angels are referred to as "boys" at every turn.

EDIT: This isn't to say that Lara Croft isn't an icon or a legend. I'm purely using her as a point of comparison to express just HOW on her own Bayonetta is. This isn't a case of me saying that women don't need men. It's purely a case of independence, which is something MOST women would fight for, right?

Spoiler: Representation of human anatomy

I'll probably be berated for this, but I believe that Bayonetta represents the female form better than a lot of other female characters and women in the media. Yes, her limbs are exaggerated, but her torso is generally true to life. She actually has curves, an ass, she has breasts and she's not particularly skinny/size zero, which is what the media too often presents as perfection. Sure, she's slim (hell, she fights angels for a living, she has to be in great shape), but she bears more resemblance to real females than some others I've seen. Plus, the other characters of the game (even the males) have relatively the same proportions, so the game is obviously set in a time when this appearance is the norm. We really don't need any more "OMG! GIRAFFE WOMAN!!!!!1111!!!11" comments, thank you!

Spoiler: Nothing you cannot overcome

This is slightly taken out of context (I'm a Literature student, it's what I do ), but Bayonetta protects Cereza and tells her that she is a "strong, little girl" and that "there is nothing [she] cannot overcome." This is such a lovely sentiment; if the women playing this game can apply this to their own lives, then Bayonetta could be a catalyst in inspiring a generation of strong women with perseverance, intelligence and confidence, both sexually and otherwise.

EDIT: Some people don't seem to be understanding what I mean by this argument. I'm not saying that women NEED to play Bayonetta to be happy with their lives. What I'm saying is that, if women play the game and believe in this sentiment, it's easy to apply it to their lives. Its easier to remember or understand something if you've read it, heard it, or seen it in action. And it's not only specific to females; males can also apply the "you can overcome anything" sentiment to their lives, too.

Spoiler: Body proud

Bayonetta is completely comfortable in her own skin. Admittedly, she IS gorgeous, with a body to be proud of, and seems to be just as comfortable naked as she is fully clothed. Despite how beautiful she is, she's also teaching a great lesson because, if more women could feel comfortable with themselves, we'd be in a much happier place. Bayonetta never claims to be gorgeous but rather seems to be largely oblivious. She DOES say to Luka, "Do I LOOK like I have any interest in children?", but that could be more about how in shape she is as opposed to how hot she is. As I say, she never makes a reference to her own BEAUTY as opposed to BODY which suggests that you can still be confident and sexy, even if you're relatively average-looking.

I understand why some people would find her hard to take seriously, what with her outfit and sexy librarian-dominatrix look, but I don't really see why a woman who IS sexy, and DOES dress like this couldn't also be seen as a role model (in parts) AND sexually attractive. Why do the two have to be mutually exclusive? That's like saying a man can't be intelligent if he's all muscled-up and looks after himself; it's not really fair to assume a person can be one thing, and not another at the same time.

I'm aware that this is not a particularly new or revolutionary opinion of Bayonetta, but I had formed this opinion before I read any of the articles about her. Bayonetta oozes sexuality and sensuality, and doesn't shy away from it. She embraces her beauty, and why shouldn't she? As I said, I don't think the creators set about to portray women in a vulgar way, which is evidenced by one of the PG team who was upset over the pornographic images of Bayonetta which REALLY degrade her to "sexual object" as opposed to "well-rounded character"; she has an intriguing personality that doesn't really revolve around sex. I ADORE Bayonetta as a character, and as a role model, encompassing many ideals and sentiments. Women SHOULD be sexy, women ARE sexy. Women can be sexy and wear glasses, be intelligent, be witty and cool. Bayonetta just projects this idea more into the public eye than it has been in the past.

I would just like to say, I am by no means an extremist feminist. I don't believe that women should be superior to men, just equal. I DO believe, however, that lessons can be learned from Bayonetta. The game, and character, don't represent women as "better", just as having different strengths to men.

My feelings are quite aptly summed up by another contributor, here:

Spoiler: Phoenixmgs

What I do love about Bayonetta is that she doesn't play any games like most women. I think the thing is that most women seem to believe they are entitled to be in the position of being asked out and they want equality. The man is expected to put himself out there and the female is the one reacting.

Bayonetta is also a strong moral character. She does the right thing while acting like she doesn't want to, and you know she wants to because she goes out of her way to do the right thing. She just doesn't want to show any weakness because doing the right thing usually puts you in a more vulnerable situation than the wrong thing.

Lastly, Bayonetta is just that kind of person you'd like to be around whether it's just as friends or something more. She wears her emotions on her sleeves and she's not going to play any games.

I think Bayonetta is just showing you that women have the ability to be the kind of person she is, NOT that they have to or should be. Just be who you are and not let society tell you how to be.

Even the developers shied away from pushing the game as a sexually oriented one. It's main selling point is the action. Still think it's all about sex?

Spoiler: TGS 2009 Trailer

So, what do you fine people of The Escapist think about Bayonetta as a role model? Or, at the very least, a source of inspiration in SOME aspects?

 

[hazabaza1]

... you just made a surprisingly good few points there.
I was about to spout "loltits" but now I have to think about this a bit more. Oh, also, just so you know, feminist females don't generally think themselves better than men, they just want equality.
Good post, though.

 

[Undeadpool]

Apart from the whole "better than men" thing (as the guy before me says, feminism is ideally about equality, not superiority), I agree with most of these. The fact that they gave her a kind, nurturing side that even she was a little embarrassed, but not ashamed, about really helped her transcend the "dude with tits" style writing that most "strong" women in pop culture get saddled with because the writers are afraid if they have a female character show any weakness ever, they'll be labelled as sexist.

 

[Rachel317]

... you just made a surprisingly good few points there.
I was about to spout "loltits" but now I have to think about this a bit more. Oh, also, just so you know, feminist females don't generally think themselves better than men, they just want equality.
Good post, though.

You're right, but a lot of feminists are men-hating, yadda yadda. I don't necessarily mean to say that feminism is wrong or that feminists are bad people, so thank you for pointing that out. As I say, it could be more about role model than feminism.

Also...I'm impressed that you managed to restrain from the "tits" comment. I salute you, Sir!

 

[Rachel317]

writers are afraid if they have a female character show any weakness ever, they'll be labelled as sexist.

Excellent point! Why should character flaws be seen as sexism? Women have weaknesses that men don't have, men have weaknesses that women don't have. These shouldn't be shied away from, but embraced.

 

[Lucky Chainsaw]

There's actually a really good Game Overthinker episode that goes really deep into this idea. It's a good watch.

http://screwattack.com/videos/TGO-Episode-32-I-Heart-Bayonetta

 

[hazabaza1]

... you just made a surprisingly good few points there.
I was about to spout "loltits" but now I have to think about this a bit more. Oh, also, just so you know, feminist females don't generally think themselves better than men, they just want equality.
Good post, though.

You're right, but a lot of feminists are men-hating, yadda yadda. I don't necessarily mean to say that feminism is wrong or that feminists are bad people, so thank you for pointing that out. As I say, it could be more about role model than feminism.

Also...I'm impressed that you managed to restrain from the "tits" comment. I salute you, Sir!

Yeah, it took a lot of willpower to hold back.
Generally, it's just the radical or extremist feminists that are all "we hate men raeg"

And I think throughout these two posts I have proved that I pay attention far too much in sociology classes.

 

[Blue_vision]

Excellent point! Why should character flaws be seen as sexism? Women have weaknesses that men don't have, men have weaknesses that women don't have. These shouldn't be shied away from, but embraced.

Though there's also a point to be made that some men may have weaknesses that could be described as womanly, while women could have the same with a "manly weakness." It's important to show both sides of the coin, because it's true that all of those perceived weaknesses (eg. women have a harder time kicking ass, men have a harder time expressing their emotions,) are mostly blatant generalizations.

And you raise some very good points in the OP! Since I first heard about it, I've always through of Bayonetta being a refreshingly different twist on the overhyped video game sexualizations. Yes, she's sexualized, but it's done as a character trait, and she always stays strong above it. Thinking about it, I think she'd make a great role model.

And I personally loved the game, between Bayonetta's character, the awesome fighting, and the awesome scenery.

 

[Rachel317]

And I personally loved the game, between Bayonetta's character, the awesome fighting, and the awesome scenery.

It IS an excellent game. Shame about the cut scenes...I liked the film slides for the flashbacks, but it wasn't so good during the present day. Financial issues?

I agree with you on your point about the sexualisation. She's not meant to be a whore or a young boy's wet dream (well...ok, maybe she is ;D), but if she can appeal to women to, then she can't be THAT skanky. There are women (such as myself) who are openly sexual like Bay. Admittedly, I'm nowhere near as flirtatious, but I believe sex should be openly discussed. Not necessarily peoples' personal sex lives, but far more openly than the taboo it currently is.

EDIT: I am able to relate to Bayonetta much more than Lara Croft and the likes. if I can, then there will be other women out there who can kind of see themselves in Bay too.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Eventhough you do make good points, I don't consider Bayonetta a good female rolemodel. Simply because she isn't going to be looked at as anything but a sexual fantasy. I don't mind a little eye candy, but Bayonetta seemed to relish in sexual inuendo to the point of blatent fan service.

I think that feminism has pretty much destroyed itself in that regard. When you look at stars like Beyonce or Lady Gaga, do you see a shallow objectification of women or feminists who are using their sexuality to empower themselves? Either way, it only seems to solidify the idea of women as sexual playthings.

 

[Rachel317]

Eventhough you do make good points, I don't consider Bayonetta a good female rolemodel. Simply because she isn't going to be looked at as anything but a sexual fantasy. I don't mind a little eye candy, but Bayonetta seemed to relish in sexual inuendo to the point of blatent fan service.

I think that feminism has pretty much destroyed itself in that regard. When you look at stars like Beyonce or Lady Gaga, do you see a shallow objectification of women or feminists who are using their sexuality to empower themselves? Either way, it only seems to solidify the idea of women as sexual playthings.

I totally understand what you mean! This is an excellent take on it. The sexuality of the game WAS OTT, either as brilliant satire of the sexualisation of women, or really as a masturbatory aid, depending on how you look at it.

Is it, however...that to men, she is little more than a sexual object, but to women she is a figure to look up to? Is this a case of her being unable to transcend gender boundaries, or because she really IS little more than a sexual play thing?

EDIT: "gender boundaries" due to our different ways of viewing and interpreting the world, to clarify.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Bayonetta is nobody's plaything, though.
Especially in a culture such as Japan's, where women are second class citizens, Bayonetta's aura of "sure, I'm all that but you can't have me" is ... something new.

 

[Blue_vision]

It IS an excellent game. Shame about the cut scenes...I liked the film slides for the flashbacks, but it wasn't so good during the present day. Financial issues?

I agree with you on your point about the sexualisation. She's not meant to be a whore or a young boy's wet dream (well...ok, maybe she is ;D), but if she can appeal to women to, then she can't be THAT skanky. There are women (such as myself) who are openly sexual like Bay. Admittedly, I'm nowhere near as flirtatious, but I believe sex should be openly discussed. Not necessarily peoples' personal sex lives, but far more openly than the taboo it currently is.

EDIT: I am able to relate to Bayonetta much more than Lara Croft and the likes. if I can, then there will be other women out there who can kind of see themselves in Bay too.

Oh yes x3. As in,

Oh yes, sexuality definitely needs to be way less taboo. And I feel that in today's stodgy, relatively formal society, opening up sexuality could do a lot of other good things and sort of open up to things like better relationships of all kinds.
Oh yes, the cutscenes were definitely the low for the game. But that said, I didn't mind them hugely.
And Oh yes, she is a young boy's wet dream. Hell, she's really any man's wet dream.

I still think that Lara Croft is a better female than the majority of females out there. But she's definitely got less depth than Bayonetta. I think that Nariko from Heavenly Sword is also one of the better females in video games, and she's also pretty heavily sexualized (in an awesome kind of ancient style, may I note.) She's got feminine qualities and relatable real person issues while maintaining a total badass persona expected.

 

[LogicNProportion]

Ahhhh, someone who thinks the same!

Hence, partly why Bayonetta is still my game of the year.

 

[Rachel317]

Oh yes, sexuality definitely needs to be way less taboo. And I feel that in today's stodgy, relatively formal society, opening up sexuality could do a lot of other good things and sort of open up to things like better relationships of all kinds.
Oh yes, the cutscenes were definitely the low for the game. But that said, I didn't mind them hugely.
And Oh yes, she is a young boy's wet dream. Hell, she's really any man's wet dream.

I still think that Lara Croft is a better female than the majority of females out there. But she's definitely got less depth than Bayonetta. I think that Nariko from Heavenly Sword is also one of the better females in video games, and she's also pretty heavily sexualized (in an awesome kind of ancient style, may I note.) She's got feminine qualities and relatable real person issues while maintaining a total badass persona expected.

Nah, i didn't mind the cut scenes THAT much, especially the one when Bay drew on Luka's face with lipstick. That wouldn't have worked in a full animated sequence. Hilarious...oh, and the scenes where he jumped from Luka's glinting eye to Cereza then Cheshire's bandaged eye.
But yeah, some were really good. When Luka says that he'd be proven right about "everything i said about you", and Bay's face drops, that was excellently done.

On to the topic! Lara Croft is a great female! She's one of the pioneers of women in games, alway a good thing. Shame SHE started out as a sexual object too...
Haven't played HS, but i get what you mean. It's the more intricate sides of their personalities that kind of make them believable as characters. I don't know much about Nariko, but Bay caring bout Cereza as much as she does kind of helps you overlook the OTT sexual stuff.

 

[Something Amyss]

Most of those arguments could be used for just about any T&A star. Also, feminism does not equal male free.

Oh, and I can't stand false equivalency:

writers are afraid if they have a female character show any weakness ever, they'll be labelled as sexist.

Excellent point! Why should character flaws be seen as sexism? Women have weaknesses that men don't have, men have weaknesses that women don't have. These shouldn't be shied away from, but embraced.

Like that.

It sounds like you're trying to take a character you like and shoehorn in admirable qualities in order to justify liking her.

Granted, I might be biased by the inanity of "Lara Croft has BOYS on her side!"

 

[EeveeElectro]

I'd agree if her clothes didn't fly off every now and again... It's like "Hai guiz! BOOBEHS!"
I think people see her more as a sex symbol than a strong woman and a role model. Good game, but the nudity did put me off =/
Before I dropped Media Studies, something like this was going to be one of my assignments. Yeah, Lara Croft breaks away from the stereotype of women being weak and saves the world... in tiny hot pants.

[sub]That might not make much sense. It's late D=[/sub]

 

[Gigano]

Well, Bayonetta would be a feminist icon in the way that there's nothing wrong with women choosing to be awesome in a sexually aggressive way if they want to.

Kind of closer to original feminism, which was quite focused on sexual liberation from Abrahamic norms about female sexuality being something unwholesome and dangerous. Until it turned 180 degrees and became about that men should always think about women as men, which is kind of sad, a complete surrender to male norms which women had been smart enough to avoid (and exploit) for millennia beforehand.

 

[Something Amyss]

Bayonetta is nobody's plaything, though.
Especially in a culture such as Japan's, where women are second class citizens, Bayonetta's aura of "sure, I'm all that but you can't have me" is ... something new.

Except it's really not all that new.

 

[CheckD3]

That is a way of viewing Bay as a character that I never imagined.

Personally, to myself I find that the -isms of the world strive more for dominance than equality, but that is a way to take the word and put it into a context that would make more sense, and also how to make a woman in a game. It does seem sexual, but at the same time, with the way this explains it, makes it from sleezy to powerful

Nicely done