"Be accepting of others views" doesn't apply to racism?

[Churro]

Because opinions, as they are, usually can't be considered right or wrong. But saying something like that is just, without a doubt, unequivocally wrong.

How can one opinion be considered right/wrong but not another? Why would I be wrong for saying that black people are inferior to white people, but not for saying that the color blue is inferior to the color red?

Because opinions, as they are, usually can't be considered right or wrong. But saying something like that is just, without a doubt, unequivocally wrong.

How can one opinion be considered right/wrong but not another? Why would I be wrong for saying that black people are inferior to white people, but not for saying that the color blue is inferior to the color red?

TO be honest, it's a simple matter of the fact that it's a whole different ball game when you're comparing two regular colors on the spectrum. But to say something like that about an entire race of human beings with a different skin tone that are capable of being upset by and offended by a statement like that.

The only difference between the two is that colors don't have feelings.

So...because people can take offense? That seems like a pretty piss poor reason, as there are many things that people can take offense to that still need to be discussed. Opinions stop being opinions and start being facts the moment people start getting uppity about them?

No, opinions start to become a problem when they involve harm or infringing on another person's rights. That's why we consider racists and murderers to be the scum of the Earth.

 

[Lazier Than Thou]

Because opinions, as they are, usually can't be considered right or wrong. But saying something like that is just, without a doubt, unequivocally wrong.

How can one opinion be considered right/wrong but not another? Why would I be wrong for saying that black people are inferior to white people, but not for saying that the color blue is inferior to the color red?

Because opinions, as they are, usually can't be considered right or wrong. But saying something like that is just, without a doubt, unequivocally wrong.

How can one opinion be considered right/wrong but not another? Why would I be wrong for saying that black people are inferior to white people, but not for saying that the color blue is inferior to the color red?

TO be honest, it's a simple matter of the fact that it's a whole different ball game when you're comparing two regular colors on the spectrum. But to say something like that about an entire race of human beings with a different skin tone that are capable of being upset by and offended by a statement like that.

The only difference between the two is that colors don't have feelings.

So...because people can take offense? That seems like a pretty piss poor reason, as there are many things that people can take offense to that still need to be discussed. Opinions stop being opinions and start being facts the moment people start getting uppity about them?

No, opinions start to become a problem when they involve harm or infringing on another person's rights. That's why we consider racists and murderers to be the scum of the Earth.

But that doesn't make them wrong it makes them objectionable.

If we take out the slavery aspect, can racism still stay an acceptable opinion?

 

[SharPhoe]

So...because people can take offense? That seems like a pretty piss poor reason, as there are many things that people can take offense to that still need to be discussed. Opinions stop being opinions and start being facts the moment people start getting uppity about them?

Look, I'm not saying anything like that. The point is, while every opinion - even the most insipid or trivial - will more than likely make at least some people upset, some opinions are bound to do so more than others. If I were to walk around telling my friends and other people I know that I thought that Hitler was completely right, I know full that the listener still potentially has it in him/her to say "While I don't agree with your opinion, I respect your belief". Do I expect any of them to actually go through with that? Absolutely not. An opinion that powerful will be argued against, make no mistake. It's just human nature.

 

[JaredXE]

Who says I should be accepting of someone's views? I am accepting of the things that a person can't control, like skin colour, or sexuality. But their thoughts? Their actions? Oh no. I can be just as intolerant of them as they are intolerant of others. I will mock a person's faith, their music, their culture....because I don't agree. Often because it's dumb.


Example: I hate black urban culture. I think they need to pull their damned pants up, sell the bling and put the money towards learning proper english, quit killing eachother and generally stop revelling in ignorance. And it's infecting white people, giving the perception that ignorance and illiteracy is an acceptable trait because it "Keeps ya real!"

Now, was I intolerant of their skin? Was that a general hatred towards blacks? No. But their actions, their decisions....oh yeah, I'm intolerant like a muthafucka.

Oh yeah, and to try and prevent being reported for the above statements: White people! Stop becoming so damned priggish and intolerant of intolerance! I know you all are experiencing white-man's guilt over shit that was done before your great-grandparents were born, but seriously stop being the first to point out and condemn racial commentary like that will get you a little gold star in Al Sharpton's book. Oh, and could you please do something about country music. It's your own damn fault.

 

[Lazier Than Thou]

So...because people can take offense? That seems like a pretty piss poor reason, as there are many things that people can take offense to that still need to be discussed. Opinions stop being opinions and start being facts the moment people start getting uppity about them?

Look, I'm not saying anything like that. The point is, while every opinion - even the most insipid or trivial - will more than likely make at least some people upset, some opinions are bound to do so more than others. If I were to walk around telling my friends and other people I know that I thought that Hitler was completely right, I know full that the listener still potentially has it in him/her to say "While I don't agree with your opinion, I respect your belief". Do I expect any of them to actually go through with that? Absolutely not. An opinion that powerful will be argued against, make no mistake. It's just human nature.

But saying that Hitler was right doesn't make you wrong. Saying that one group of people is inferior doesn't make you wrong. Many people disagreeing with you doesn't even make you wrong.

It's an opinion which, by definition, cannot be wrong as it doesn't have to be based on fact or reality.

 

[Snotnarok]

Because opinions, as they are, usually can't be considered right or wrong. But saying something like that is just, without a doubt, unequivocally wrong.

How can one opinion be considered right/wrong but not another? Why would I be wrong for saying that black people are inferior to white people, but not for saying that the color blue is inferior to the color red?

Because colors are differences in light and black people are human beings with darker skin and a mind unlike a shade of light. There's a bit of a difference, just a bit. By a bit I mean it's bloody different.

 

[Skeleon]

It's not included because freedoms are only free as long as they don't infringe upon others' rights. Discriminating against a race of people does so, thus it's not allowed.

*snip*

Oh, and this I fully agree with.
It's not racist to say "this group of people behaves stupid" and they also happen to be black. It would be racist if you said "this group of people is stupid because they're black".

And lastly: Don't mix racist Nazi ideology with evolutionary theory. The biggest flaw in this utterly shitty argument is that "survival of the fittest" never meant "survival of the best"! It is and always has been "survival of those best adapted to the current situation" with the current situation in a constant flux! STOP MIXING RACISM WITH EVOLUTION AND THUS GIVING THE LATTER A FUCKING BAD NAME!
I don't "internet-yell" usually, but in this case I feel it's warranted.

 

[Lazier Than Thou]

Because opinions, as they are, usually can't be considered right or wrong. But saying something like that is just, without a doubt, unequivocally wrong.

How can one opinion be considered right/wrong but not another? Why would I be wrong for saying that black people are inferior to white people, but not for saying that the color blue is inferior to the color red?

Because colors are differences in light and black people are human beings with darker skin and a mind unlike a shade of light. There's a bit of a difference, just a bit. By a bit I mean it's bloody different.

They're both opinions, aren't they? What makes one more objectionable than the other?

 

[Darenus]

The sole fact that by now slavery is just not a fair solution to anyone. Yes, the way I say it is silly but it boils down to exactly that + the fact that while people should not surpress others for their points of view.

Free speech, will and freedom to do whatever you please is all good and fine until you have to take the fact that others may do the same in that case and whily 2 fighting cocks ain't really the best of solutions I'd just say: Be prepared to take a step back and adjust to your overal surrounding.

Whatever you do in your private time is still up to you, but if you wanna share that with someone, be prepared for an echo that sounds quite different... or feels a lot harder when it impacts

 

[SharPhoe]

But this isn't about human behavior or how humans *actually* behave: this is about how humans *should* behave. The saying "While I disagree with your opinion I respect it as your belief" isn't meant to *describe* humans, it's meant to be a rule for how humans should act if they want to act *correctly*

I'm fully aware of that, believe me. Which is why I said it has potential to happen, but most likely never will.

But saying that Hitler was right doesn't make you wrong. Saying that one group of people is inferior doesn't make you wrong. Many people disagreeing with you doesn't even make you wrong.

It's an opinion which, by definition, cannot be wrong as it doesn't have to be based on fact or reality.

Yes, I know, that's not even up for question. Regardless, whether or not an opinion can actually be considered wrong, people are always going to see them as such.Despite the fact that you are completely within your right to say whatever you feel as an opinion, people can and will hold it against you nonetheless. It's a simple fact.

 

[Lazier Than Thou]

So...because people can take offense? That seems like a pretty piss poor reason, as there are many things that people can take offense to that still need to be discussed. Opinions stop being opinions and start being facts the moment people start getting uppity about them?

Look, I'm not saying anything like that. The point is, while every opinion - even the most insipid or trivial - will more than likely make at least some people upset, some opinions are bound to do so more than others. If I were to walk around telling my friends and other people I know that I thought that Hitler was completely right, I know full that the listener still potentially has it in him/her to say "While I don't agree with your opinion, I respect your belief". Do I expect any of them to actually go through with that? Absolutely not. An opinion that powerful will be argued against, make no mistake. It's just human nature.

But saying that Hitler was right doesn't make you wrong. Saying that one group of people is inferior doesn't make you wrong. Many people disagreeing with you doesn't even make you wrong.

It's an opinion which, by definition, cannot be wrong as it doesn't have to be based on fact or reality.

Well, it does--that's what it means to say something is right. Even the opinion "Hitler made me happy" has to be based on the fact that, well, Hitler makes you happy.

The problem is that "Hitler made me happy" isn't an opinion it's a statement of fact. It has no bearing on if he's right or wrong.

The thing is, we're still trying to figure out how to define something as right or wrong and what standards--facts and reality--to use when it comes to ethics; however, that doesn't mean that if someone says a person was "right" that they need to back that up with facts and reality.

Ethics don't come into the equation when you're talking about opinion. Opinions are a personal belief, not a fact. Again I reiterate the problem of the skin color vs the color. While it is a statement of fact to say "I believe black people are subhuman to white people" the only fact in there is "I believe." Which is to say that you could argue that a this supposed person does or does not believe it. You can also argue the merits of if black people are subhuman to white people, but it doesn't change the fact that it's an opinion. A belief.

 

[Booze Zombie]

There's views and then there's deciding that another branch of humanity needs pruning.

Of course, you could also say it is our view to view racism as a bad view, perhaps you could look at it like that?

 

[Skeleon]

Fucked up? Yeah. But, it's not as simple as saying "discrimination" because when you do, you've assumed something like 'all men are created equal'. The racist does not share that assumption.

Yet this is the very basis of democracy and when a person disregards that, they disregard democarcy itself and have no place in politics.

EDIT:

Oh, and I'll copy this part of my own post because I added it late and don't want it to be lost.

"And lastly: Don't mix racist Nazi ideology with evolutionary theory. The biggest flaw in this utterly shitty argument is that "survival of the fittest" never meant "survival of the best"! It is and always has been "survival of those best adapted to the current situation" with the current situation in a constant flux! STOP MIXING RACISM WITH EVOLUTION AND THUS GIVING THE LATTER A FUCKING BAD NAME!
I don't "internet-yell" usually, but in this case I feel it's warranted."

 

[Kuhkren]

Maybe this topic would work better if some of the participants tried to remove personal bias from the opinion. Ideas don't have any inherent value, it is placed upon them by the individual. So comparing black people and white people and the idea of comparing red and blue are subjective, not definite. We only allow ourselves to envision the concept of incomparable between the two to justify cultural/personal beliefs. All in my opinion anyways.

Smiles .