Before you go defending Phil Fish...

[scorptatious]

Wow. Any sympathy I may have had for Fish is now gone.

 

[Gearhead mk2]

I don't see why anyone put up with Fish in the first place. All he did was make one dime-a-dozen "artistic" "retro" indie platformer. This asshole should have been kicked out of the industry a long time ago.

 

[Mycroft Holmes]

Maybe if he doesn't want to be disappointed then he shouldn't be a racist. He's proud because some people who kind of look like he does did something he thinks is note worthy?

It wasn't like he spent years of his life programming, made a game and was like 'what do you guys think of it?' and they were like 'it fucking blows, you suck, quit your job.' He wasn't even tentatively connected to these projects.

 

[Kai Kuhl]

Are you really trying to carry on like being German makes you an authority on anything? Oh poor English speaking countries and their stupidity? That's certainly how this pretentious bit of garbage you've spewed comes off.

Oh, excuse me, but I thought that my perspective would be interesting, because I am an outsider to your culture and maybe have an other angle to that. Its just something I dont understand at all, so I thought its some kind of cultural difference. I didnt want to insult your perspective at all, I am sorry if my 'pretentious bit of garbage' offended you.
But, you know, that Fish-thing really invested me, and I wanted to give my humble opinion to that discussion.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Are the recent Zeldas and Marios not too hand-holdy? What exactly am I supposed to be disagreeing with? The majority of the video was people other than Fish talking, and they all happened to agree with him. Why is this video directed at Fish?

This is a witch hunt and a hate campaign. I will take no part in this.

Yeh, this.

They spoke their minds. If anyone can't handle that, that's their own issue... 'cause you should be able to handle a man with a job also having an opinion.

I actually think I agree with the sentiments too. I don't care for Japanese games.

The issue isn't what he said, its the fact that he can clearly dish it out but he cant take it himself.

So go ahead and don't like him, it doesn't matter.

I don't find the content of the video(which is the crux of the thread) to be anything of note. He only said he doesn't like modern Japanese games... whoop de doo. I tend to believe people when they say he's a tit, there's plenty of them around. This just isn't an example of that.

 

[Beat14]

Defending Fish would be easier if he had any concept of professionalism. I watched the video and I don't see why people say "Oh that's he opinion he is allowed to state it"..

Yeah I know right, freedom of speech and all. Thing is he could have got his point across without needlessly humiliating a guy who had a degree of admiration for him. That's probably gone now. I found the maker of Braid, Johnathan Blow interesting to listen to, and he was the only reason I watched the video through. Then Fish started to talk again, and the difference in quality of communication slaps you in the face. I'm not sure why mention that, just I got bored again when he started off. At least when he is blunt it makes some drama.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

In fact if anyone in this thread wants to learn who phil fish is, go buy Indie Game the Movie and watch it.

http://buy.indiegamethemovie.com/

He's a regular guy who was just trying to make games.

Ugh.

That movie was a horrible look at the indie gaming scene. That movie was more of a warning to never work with Microsoft than it was a movie about the conception of indie games. That movie was also known for throwing Phil Fish's partner under the bus by stating that he asked not to be in the movie. It was found that Jason DeGroot (did the music for Fez and Dyad) was asked not to appear in the film due to the dispute between himself and Phil Fish. They also didn't include any of DeGroot's side of the story at all to make Fish's overall story more sympathetic.

That movie's second half (The Phil Fish half) was manufactured like a reality TV show. You could tell he wasn't telling the whole story of what happened. The film creators essentially propped up Phil Fish with this instead of getting the more interesting story of how a business dispute goes down in the indie game scene.

Indie Game the Movie is the last thing people should be watching to learn about Phil Fish.

 

[teebeeohh]

Why do the people on the panel act like they are some kind of innovative avant garde artists? They make platformers with some kind of gimmick and/or puzzle elements. They shit all over the AAA industry for releasing the same kind of game by releasing the same kind of game. I never got that.

 

[endnuen]

He has zero diplomatic skills whatsoever and it is his fault alone that people hate on him.
Hell, I watched the first minute, then turned the video off, his smug attitude and complete lack of etiquette makes him come off as the most pretentious dickwad..

There is no witch-hunt on this Fish character, he is just as unlikeable as Robert Mugabe.

Edit; And his Fez game that he is so proud of, it is a giant pile of boring and bad.

 

[CrimsonBlaze]

On one hand, Fish didn't just volunteer to be in the front line of criticism and cynicism, he actively went out looking for any live grenade he could and tossed it back before it blew up in his face. For people like Fish who are always shooting first and thinking later, it's bound that you will not always be liked among others, especially if your thoughts are hurt driven rather than profound or witty. He should have seen this perpetual s***storm from miles away and to be forced to retreat in such a pathetic fashion further proves that he was not the man he portrayed himself to be.

On the other hand, threatening the man or his family is never okay, and if Fish was an journalist, TV anchor, or teacher, you bet your a** that the people making threats to him would have been tracked down and sent to jail long ago. You can hate the man all you want, but leave his family out of it. Over time, even the most impenetrable walls will crumble and one too many poundings is all it takes.

 

[Talaris]

If this is how he talks to people on camera, with a huge crowd listening in, imagine what his thought's and opinions on such matters in private. I can't imagine he can get far in life if he keeps that attitude up. And there is no excuse to tell someone to kill themselves; what's worse is that as far as I'm aware he didn't even apologise after everyone found out, he just kept on spewing insults. Those are all indications of a professional arsehole.

 

[endnuen]

Robert Mugabe.

He has some diplomatic tact.

Yeah, but I did say he was just as unlikeable, not that he was as.

 

[Vigormortis]

That's pretty much it though, the guy is a massive tit and seeing him throw a huge hissy fit because someone else acted like a massive tit towards him is what many would call Just Desserts.

Were you trying to quote me or michael87cn? You kinda borked your post so it's hard to tell.

I'm going to assume you were attempting to quote me and go from there.

So what if Fish is a "massive tit"? Does him making a comment really warrant months of endless vitriol and excessively cruel insults from thousands of gamers on the internet? And hell, not even just the gamers but asshole gaming "journalists" like Marcus Beer. Is it really a fair retort for people to basically be going on a witch hunt, screaming for blood?

And that hissy fit? That came on the back of months of continuous and incredibly cruel personal attacks. Frankly, I'm amazed it took this long to break the man.

I think people need to calm the fuck down. If you don't like the man, then do the mature thing and just ignore him. Harassing, brow-beating, and threatening him on a daily basis just makes gamers behavior look far worse than Fishs.

I suppose it can't be helped that some people will be alright with someone acting completely out of line in a professional environment, to say nothing of being vile and egotistical.

What gets me is that some people honestly think it's alright for the guy to cry foul play, as if him doing the exact same to others just doesn't count because REASONS.

But then everyone's opinions are different, this is basic understanding and really isn't what the entire point is about.

P.S.: And yes, the video I posted really is nothing but the tip of the iceberg.

Oh, I see. So anyone who doesn't immediately jump on the hate-train to crush what little remains of Fishs sanity is an idiot, right? I mean, how could anyone not hate the man with every fiber of their being?!

Or maybe some of us have looked into this whole fiasco objectively, rather than subjectively, and realized that the guy doesn't deserve even a small fraction of the hate he's been receiving for months and months.

This is not to say Fish is a saint. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

But Jesus-jumped-up-Christ, people....dial back the hate a bit, yeah? This has gotten way out of hand.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Can someone please show me when in history did honesty tend to include being a dick?

First off, to the 'they fucking suck' part of it, the man obviously has troubles with english. And I'm not going to say hold his hand because he's a sensitive little flower. however, there are MANY things that don't translate well between languages. Even if you think it's ok to say a word like that when describing a group of people's actions (quick fun game, substitute 'Japanese game designers' with a group that you affiliate with and see if the word 'suck' is as innocent as you think! Fun for all!), the description of the word that the Japanese fellow might have received for 'suck' might be harsher than we think. I'd even bet money on it, because that man's face fell really quickly.

Also, while someone is helping me understand when did honesty include being a dick, can someone tell me why being honest also tends to mean 'saying something I agree with'

And who gets to decide when the need for thick skin is just too much and sometimes you get to throw everyone under the bus because I'm a special little flower and I deserve respect while I don't have to show any for others.

This is personally how I go about things. I give respect where respect is given. All I've ever seen Fish do was laud his accomplishments, and how great he is. Great. He's a douche to me. Beer called Blow and him out for being 'Tosspot' Hipsters for not wanting to respond to media hype about the One's reversal. Great. Beer is a douche to me.

My point is this. You can't go on behaving how you want and say you're being honest, but expect everyone to treat you like you want to be treated. Your honesty might be rude to others. You'll say deal, it's honesty. What if people are honest that you're a fucking asshat? Do you run off and take your ball? Apparently you do, and you have fans supporting you.

So what if Fish is a "massive tit"? Does him making a comment really warrant months of endless vitriol and excessively cruel insults from thousands of gamers on the internet? And hell, not even just the gamers but asshole gaming "journalists" like Marcus Beer. Is it really a fair retort for people to basically be going on a witch hunt, screaming for blood?

And that hissy fit? That came on the back of months of continuous and incredibly cruel personal attacks. Frankly, I'm amazed it took this long to break the man.

I think people need to calm the fuck down. If you don't like the man, then do the mature thing and just ignore him. Harassing, brow-beating, and threatening him on a daily basis just makes gamers behavior look far worse than Fishs.

I'll be honest, yes. Yes if he is a massive tit, he deserves whatever he gets.

I don't use twitter. There's a reason for that. Because I consider my opinions to be valid but only worth sharing when I find someone that I feel I can be open to. If they disagree with that opinion, there's a chance I could be butthurt. I'm human. It happens. but I'd like to discuss and see where the difference of opinion stems from.

I also present my self in the best way to actually communicate information. If you come off aggressive, people will get defensive. That's human nature. No one listens when they are defensive. If I feel like my opinions are worth speaking, they are worth taking the five seconds to figure out how to express it in a manner where people will respond to my ideas, and not how I came off.

If I did use twitter, and I called out people 'honestly' using insults, names, and diatribes to make my point, I should be very well prepared for people to have opinions and responses mirroring my tone. I shouldn't be confused and go 'Oh, wait up. Why are you being like that? I was just using honesty'.

There is a difference saying 'The game market that I've seen lately hasn't really given anything for me to go on' and 'It fucking sucks'. One tells me how you feel and gives me insight on what you mean in the first sentence. The other is sensationalistic and offers nothing but glibness.

I do not understand why people try to run to the defense of people who are crass and rude when they are expressing themselves and use the 'Honesty' shield. It's a weird get out of jail free card that you can be counterculture and rude and not have to suffer any repercussions.

I do not have access to all of what Fish has said all his life. The media blurbs I do ingest, they seem to paint Fish in the dickish-honesty fad that's sweeping all nations. I frankly do not see where one person is being blunt (Fish) and one person is attacking (Beer). They are both speaking their mind, they are both calling names and whining... So where do you find the victim in this?

 

[Dangit2019]

Well, in case that video ever does get taken down, I'm downloading it now. His acts of douchebaggery will not be hidden on my watch.

Rock on, masked avenger of the night. Can't let that independent game developer get away with, whatever it is you're championing against.

Someone can't detect satire.