Best PVP In an MMO?

[Naeras]

What ruined PvP in WoW was Resilience.

Once doing end-game content no longer matters in PvP, it completely broke the game for me.

I raided for good gear, so I could do better in PvP, thats basically WHY I played the game. I was for a time, fairly well known on my battle-group as "someone you don't try to 1v1, because you will lose". This was with my Tier 3/Tier 2 mishmash set at the very end of Vanilla. 2-3 shotting mages was a normal thing in those days with my Hunter.

I tried to play WoW PvP when Cata dropped again (this time as a mage), but its all about Resilience, you either have tons of it...or you die instantly. Getting it requires you go into PvP and die instantly for MONTHS...which I even did. I got up to at least a respectable Resilience score...but it didn't matter, I didn't have it as high as possible, so it was basically like not having it at all.

Having 1 stat dominate PvP is incredibly broken and boring, like WoW entire itemization system.

While I still remember vanilla PvP with rose-tinted nostalgia, there were problems with it, most notably that some classes could oneshot pretty much anyone if they had the gear. What made it worse was that the gear in question was acquired from doing something completely unrelated to PvP, restricting it to those that had the spare time to invest in raids(and, worse, preparing for raids). The gear you got from PvP-ranks wasn't as good as PvE gear, and was off-limits to me as I had 3-4 hours of battleground queues on my server. Thus I had to resort to raids, something I stopped enjoying after three months. Ergh.

Then BC came along. The whole oneshot-issue disappeared for an entire expansion because the damage to health-ratio was reduced, which allowed my priest to reach gladiator-rating mid-season 2 while still wearing several greens and having around half the resilience cap. Still, even at this point PvE gear would give you a fairly sizable advantage, as PvE weapons(and many other pieces of PvE gear) were just flat-out better than anything you could acquire from the arena, but at least it was possible to compete on the virtue of being better than(or countercomping *cough*) any opponents we met.

My point? From my perspective resilience didn't ruin WoW PvP. PvE gear ruined WoW PvP. That, and dubious balance issues and the return of instagibbing in WotLK, which is why I stopped playing.

 

[Entourian]

The best PVP in an MMO is in EVE Online. The dynamic nature of the ships and the no holds-bars approach to combat makes it extremely satisfying to kill a player a couple of years older than you with pure skill. Although the massive ship battles can get clusterfucky and if you are PVPing with friends and don't have a voice comms system it can get hard to communicate.

 

[Zenn3k]

What ruined PvP in WoW was Resilience.

Once doing end-game content no longer matters in PvP, it completely broke the game for me.

I raided for good gear, so I could do better in PvP, thats basically WHY I played the game. I was for a time, fairly well known on my battle-group as "someone you don't try to 1v1, because you will lose". This was with my Tier 3/Tier 2 mishmash set at the very end of Vanilla. 2-3 shotting mages was a normal thing in those days with my Hunter.

I tried to play WoW PvP when Cata dropped again (this time as a mage), but its all about Resilience, you either have tons of it...or you die instantly. Getting it requires you go into PvP and die instantly for MONTHS...which I even did. I got up to at least a respectable Resilience score...but it didn't matter, I didn't have it as high as possible, so it was basically like not having it at all.

Having 1 stat dominate PvP is incredibly broken and boring, like WoW entire itemization system.

While I still remember vanilla PvP with rose-tinted nostalgia, there were problems with it, most notably that some classes could oneshot pretty much anyone if they had the gear. What made it worse was that the gear in question was acquired from doing something completely unrelated to PvP, restricting it to those that had the spare time to invest in raids(and, worse, preparing for raids). The gear you got from PvP-ranks wasn't as good as PvE gear, and was off-limits to me as I had 3-4 hours of battleground queues on my server. Thus I had to resort to raids, something I stopped enjoying after three months. Ergh.

Then BC came along. The whole oneshot-issue disappeared for an entire expansion because the damage to health-ratio was reduced, which allowed my priest to reach gladiator-rating mid-season 2 while still wearing several greens and having around half the resilience cap. Still, even at this point PvE gear would give you a fairly sizable advantage, as PvE weapons(and many other pieces of PvE gear) were just flat-out better than anything you could acquire from the arena, but at least it was possible to compete on the virtue of being better than(or countercomping *cough*) any opponents we met.

My point? From my perspective resilience didn't ruin WoW PvP. PvE gear ruined WoW PvP. That, and dubious balance issues and the return of instagibbing in WotLK, which is why I stopped playing.

Yes yes, I've heard that argument a million times. However, once you separate PvP and PvE into different classes of gear, there is no point to doing one or the other at all.

Say I want to PvP...so I automatically never do anything related to PvE, ever...for any reason, none.

I'm from a much older school of MMO (Vanilla WoW, EverQuest, Ultima Online, etc), where you did the hardest stuff in the game, to become the strongest...and being the strongest, meant being able to kill other players more effectively.

I understand the IDEA of not making people who want to PvP do PvE stuff to improve...but thats a very "casual" approach to game design, and really robs the players who do commit time and effort into doing that PvE content into truly being strong amongst their peers.

If I take a Warrior, and main tank my guild for 3 years and have the best PvE gear on the server...what does that actually GET me when compared to other players? The ability to soak up damage against CPU enemies. Woo-freaking-doo.

Meanwhile, go 12 year old ONLY does PvP and Arena and if you put the two against one another, the 12 year old kid who has never killed a boss in his life wins with no effort at all. Both could be amazing players, but Resilience is all that matters. The PvP player has it, the PvE player doesn't.

I feel, if you can do the hardest of the hard dungeons in the world...you should be able to compete with that strict PvP player, but this isn't the case in WoW at all and it made me stop playing, forever this time.

 

[Naeras]

Yes yes, I've heard that argument a million times. However, once you separate PvP and PvE into different classes of gear, there is no point to doing one or the other at all.

Say I want to PvP...so I automatically never do anything related to PvE, ever...for any reason, none.

I'm from a much older school of MMO, where you did the hardest stuff in the game, to become the strongest...and being the strongest, meant being able to kill other players more effectively.

I understand the IDEA of not making people who want to PvP do PvE stuff to improve...but thats a very "casual" approach to game design, and really robs the players who do commit time and effort into doing that PvE content into truly being strong amongst their peers.

If I take a Warrior, and main tank my guild for 3 years and have the best PvE gear on the server...what does that actually GET me when compared to other players? The ability to soak up damage against CPU enemies. Woo-freaking-doo.

Meanwhile, go 12 year old ONLY does PvP and Arena and if you put the two against one another, the 12 year old kid who has never killed a boss in his life wins with no effort at all. Both could be amazing players, but Resilience is all that matters. The PvP player has it, the PvE player doesn't.

I feel, if you can do the hardest of the hard dungeons in the world...you should be able to compete with that strict PvP player, but this isn't the case in WoW at all and it made me stop playing, forever this time.

Except that, at least back in TBC, this wasn't true. At all. A baseline of resilience was needed, yes, but that's just like you needed a baseline of items overall in any game, so that isn't an argument. However, the "resilience was everything"-argument just wasn't right. The cap back then was ~400, while an optimal PvP build for a non-healer was usually ~150 resilience, simply because the minor survivability you got from those resilience items weren't worth it in contrast to the comparatively massive increase in damage output from having top-tier raid items. A rogue in half-half T6 and S3 gear would do 30-40% more damage than a rogue in pure S3 gear, and only be marginally less survivable.
(This could have changed in Cata, though, but considering how Blizzard has openly stated that PvP isn't priority 1, I very much doubt it. Still, correct me if I'm wrong)

Thus, when I said "at least I could compete in TBC", I meant I exactly that. I could put up a fight against almost any team, but I remember losing to players who had invested more time in the game than me, but still were noticeably worse than me at the game. Against an evenly skilled, but PvE geared team, there wasn't much you could do. It's goddamn frustrating if you don't have the interest, or the time, to put into raiding(for me it was both) when you want to have a shot at being top 0.5% in your battlegroup, and you also know that you're skilled enough to reach that rating if you just had the gear.

I think this discussion really boils down to that some people want time investment and dedication to be the most important factors in an MMO, others want personal skill to be the deciding factor. As you might have understood, I'm definitely in the latter category. Which is why I don't play WoW anymore, and picked up other (better) competitive games instead.

 

[Zenn3k]

Yes yes, I've heard that argument a million times. However, once you separate PvP and PvE into different classes of gear, there is no point to doing one or the other at all.

Say I want to PvP...so I automatically never do anything related to PvE, ever...for any reason, none.

I'm from a much older school of MMO, where you did the hardest stuff in the game, to become the strongest...and being the strongest, meant being able to kill other players more effectively.

I understand the IDEA of not making people who want to PvP do PvE stuff to improve...but thats a very "casual" approach to game design, and really robs the players who do commit time and effort into doing that PvE content into truly being strong amongst their peers.

If I take a Warrior, and main tank my guild for 3 years and have the best PvE gear on the server...what does that actually GET me when compared to other players? The ability to soak up damage against CPU enemies. Woo-freaking-doo.

Meanwhile, go 12 year old ONLY does PvP and Arena and if you put the two against one another, the 12 year old kid who has never killed a boss in his life wins with no effort at all. Both could be amazing players, but Resilience is all that matters. The PvP player has it, the PvE player doesn't.

I feel, if you can do the hardest of the hard dungeons in the world...you should be able to compete with that strict PvP player, but this isn't the case in WoW at all and it made me stop playing, forever this time.

Except that, at least back in TBC, this wasn't true. At all. A baseline of resilience was needed, yes, but that's just like you needed a baseline of items overall in any game, so that isn't an argument. However, the "resilience was everything"-argument just wasn't right. The cap back then was ~400, while an optimal PvP build for a non-healer was usually ~150 resilience, simply because the minor survivability you got from those resilience items weren't worth it in contrast to the comparatively massive increase in damage output from having top-tier raid items. A rogue in half-half T6 and S3 gear would do 30-40% more damage than a rogue in pure S3 gear, and only be marginally less survivable.
(This could have changed in Cata, though, but considering how Blizzard has openly stated that PvP isn't priority 1, I very much doubt it. Still, correct me if I'm wrong)

Thus, when I said "at least I could compete in TBC", I meant I exactly that. I could put up a fight against almost any team, but I remember losing to players who had invested more time in the game than me, but still were noticeably worse than me at the game. Against an evenly skilled, but PvE geared team, there wasn't much you could do. It's goddamn frustrating if you don't have the interest, or the time, to put into raiding(for me it was both) when you want to have a shot at being top 0.5% in your battlegroup, and you also know that you're skilled enough to reach that rating if you just had the gear.

I think this discussion really boils down to that some people want time investment and dedication to be the most important factors in an MMO, others want personal skill to be the deciding factor. As you might have understood, I'm definitely in the latter category. Which is why I don't play WoW anymore, and picked up other (better) competitive games instead.

I didn't play in Wrath, so I'll accept what you say as true...and that doesn't sound so bad.

But yes, in Cata, the only way to do any good in PvP was to have Arena level epics and have them in every single slot, regardless of class, there were no exceptions.

 

[Kyrinn]

I feel, if you can do the hardest of the hard dungeons in the world...you should be able to compete with that strict PvP player, but this isn't the case in WoW at all and it made me stop playing, forever this time.

The problem here is that many pvp players do not want to devote hours doing raids they don't like just so they can get the gear they need for pvp. Yeah it sucks for the first little bit when you have no pvp gear but an entire set of honor gear can be aquired within a week. You'll be competitive before you even have the full set.
I think you are overstating the value resillience had. Sure it was important in pvp but you could get by without it in battlegrounds. The small differences in resillience could be the deciding factor in the 2200+ rating RBGs and arenas. But honestly, that's how it should be. Why should some raid geared toon be able to waltz his way into high rated arenas and be competitive?

And you actually had a hard time as a mage in Cata? Really?

 

[The Ditz]

although pvp is mostly relegated to a matchmaking system, DC Universe Online is great, combat is great with counter mechanics... and pvp phase is still fun, just not many options.

 

[Naeras]

I didn't play in Wrath, so I'll accept what you say as true...and that doesn't sound so bad.

But yes, in Cata, the only way to do any good in PvP was to have Arena level epics and have them in every single slot, regardless of class, there were no exceptions.

I thought it was fairly meh, honestly, would much have preferred how it apparently was in Cata.

Anyways, I came to think about something. WoW had a somewhat different approach to other MMOs I had been playing when it came to PvP, as battlegrounds and arenas had size limits. When it comes to world PvP/mass PvP/capitol raids, which sadly pretty much died in WoW after BGs and arenas were introduced, I don't really mind the time investment = power-paradigm as much. I mean, if I'm fighting for open-world objectives, or just to crush the face of some random dudes for fun, or setting the entirety of an enemy capitol on fire while laughing hysterically, I'm doing that for the sake of doing it, not for competitive reasons. Besides, if they outgear me, I can just bring 200 additional people and stomp them. :3

Have to admit that I seriously miss doing that kind of stuff, as sick as I am of MMOs. Blame it on the BGs, I guess

 

[Zenn3k]

I feel, if you can do the hardest of the hard dungeons in the world...you should be able to compete with that strict PvP player, but this isn't the case in WoW at all and it made me stop playing, forever this time.

The problem here is that many pvp players do not want to devote hours doing raids they don't like just so they can get the gear they need for pvp. Yeah it sucks for the first little bit when you have no pvp gear but an entire set of honor gear can be aquired within a week. You'll be competitive before you even have the full set.
I think you are overstating the value resillience had. Sure it was important in pvp but you could get by without it in battlegrounds. The small differences in resillience could be the deciding factor in the 2200+ rating RBGs and arenas. But honestly, that's how it should be. Why should some raid geared toon be able to waltz his way into high rated arenas and be competitive?

And you actually had a hard time as a mage in Cata? Really?

A week? No. I worked my ass off for hours a night for 3 months to get a complete set of honor gear. Maybe its faster NOW, but it took forever when I did it and it sucked. If by "getting by in battlegrounds" you mean "dying right away as soon as a fight starts"...then yes, they "got by", lol.

You think it should be that way, thats fine...I don't. I feel doing challenging things in the GAME should reward the player with things they can use to make them more powerful.

You don't feel you should raid to get good in PvP, I don't feel you should be able to AFK in PvP to become better in PvP. Really, if raiding does nothing to truly advance the player into doing anything more than...more raiding. Why Raid? Why spend any time on the game at all?

The idea of going PvP for PvP gear, and PvE for PvE gear is good on paper, but boring and stale in practice. When I was playing in Cata, nothing could get me into a PvE instance, because I picked up the game again to PvP. Why should half the game be completely pointless to me? Thats horrible design and caused me to burn out as soon as I finally got the gear I needed to not totally suck.

I did alright as a Mage in Cata, I was aware they were considered powerful (mages should be IMO) at the time. I went fresh from 1 to 85, guildless, in like a month all solo, no instances (because, again, why bother??). Then as I said, I grinded mindlessly for months for honor gear (and my arena wand, my one epic). After all that, I did ALRIGHT...I could Ice Lance spam with the best of them, and frost circle as well. Still wasn't fun though.

To answer your question: Yes, if a player has put in the time to raid and down bosses which require its own teamwork and coordination, they should be able to just "waltz into arena and do well". Absolutely, they EARNED that. I think its WAY more stupid to take a player who HAS done all that, and for them to just be slaughtered by PvPer's with month and a half worth of PvP Blue's. Thats stupid to me.

 

[Kyrinn]

I feel, if you can do the hardest of the hard dungeons in the world...you should be able to compete with that strict PvP player, but this isn't the case in WoW at all and it made me stop playing, forever this time.

The problem here is that many pvp players do not want to devote hours doing raids they don't like just so they can get the gear they need for pvp. Yeah it sucks for the first little bit when you have no pvp gear but an entire set of honor gear can be aquired within a week. You'll be competitive before you even have the full set.
I think you are overstating the value resillience had. Sure it was important in pvp but you could get by without it in battlegrounds. The small differences in resillience could be the deciding factor in the 2200+ rating RBGs and arenas. But honestly, that's how it should be. Why should some raid geared toon be able to waltz his way into high rated arenas and be competitive?

And you actually had a hard time as a mage in Cata? Really?

A week? No. I worked my ass off for hours a night for 3 months to get a complete set of honor gear. Maybe its faster NOW, but it took forever when I did it and it sucked.

You think it should be that way, thats fine...I don't. I feel doing challenging things in the GAME should reward the player with things they can use to make them more powerful.

You don't feel you should raid to get good in PvP, I don't feel you should be able to AFK in PvP to become better in PvP. Really, if raiding does nothing to truly advance the player into doing anything more than...more raiding. Why Raid? Why spend any time on the game at all?

The idea of going PvP for PvP gear, and PvE for PvE gear is good on paper, but boring and stale in practice. When I was playing in Cata, nothing could get me into a PvE instance, because I picked up the game again to PvP. Why should half the game be completely pointless to me? Thats horrible design and caused me to burn out as soon as I finally got the gear I needed to not totally suck.

I did alright as a Mage in Cata, I was aware they were considered powerful (mages should be IMO) at the time. I went fresh from 1 to 85, guildless, in like a month all solo, no instances (because, again, why bother??). Then as I said, I grinded mindlessly for months for honor gear (and my arena wand, my one epic). After all that, I did ALRIGHT...I could Ice Lance spam with the best of them, and frost circle as well. Still wasn't fun though.

To answer your question: Yes, if a player has put in the time to raid and down bosses which require its own teamwork and coordination, they should be able to just "waltz into arena and do well". Absolutely, they EARNED that. I think its WAY more stupid to take a player who HAS done all that, and for them to just be slaughtered by 85's with month and a half worth of PvP Blue's. Thats stupid to me.

Stupid to you, perfect sense to me. You do get rewarded for completing challenging raid content. It's just that your reward for raiding is to be better at raiding, not player killing. I can see why some people might dislike this. Unfortunately the market for an MMO simillar to vanilla WoW is long gone. At least for now.
I'd also like to point out that you can completely wreck normal BGs in heroic raid gear...so there's that at least.
Would you be ok with PvP players being able to complete heroic raids in their PvP gear? I'm pretty sure there'd be a riot if it became possible.

And are you sure it took 3 months to get that much honor? Cata's honor system was pretty much the same as MoP's except now you earn conquest a bit faster. You could get 300-500 honor just from winning 1 BG per day. Not the mention the truckload of honor you got from Tol Barad. I'm not trying to argue that you didn't actually spend that much time, it just seems odd that it took that long

 

[Bertylicious]

I have heard it said that PvP ruined WoW because it meant they had to do more to homogenise the different classes, factions and game mechanics (like HP and such) for PvP.

What do y'all reckon to that?

WoW's problem is it was designed purely pve , the first battlegrounds didnt turn up till well after release and then blizzard decided to make it an esport. so we have a game which wasnt designed with it in mind riddled with overpowered stupid stuff in pvp like the rogue class and then instead of focus on things like team based objective pvp they tried to focus on arena which is the worst possible fit.

then all the various disasters of cross balancing abilities and items and you just ended up with a train wreck.

I think you have hit the nail squarely on the head. By trying to adapt it towards PvP, towards some ludicrous "E-Sport" ideal, the sincerity of the vision that made WoW special was lost.

At least, that's what I have heard from some who played it. Personally I think the truth is far uglier. An idea was formed, a story written and told. Then it didn't change for years, just perpetuated. And grew stale. The "homogenisation" I mentioned was nothing but another corpse spasm.

Blizzard never had the courage to finish their story.

 

[Zenn3k]

I feel, if you can do the hardest of the hard dungeons in the world...you should be able to compete with that strict PvP player, but this isn't the case in WoW at all and it made me stop playing, forever this time.

The problem here is that many pvp players do not want to devote hours doing raids they don't like just so they can get the gear they need for pvp. Yeah it sucks for the first little bit when you have no pvp gear but an entire set of honor gear can be aquired within a week. You'll be competitive before you even have the full set.
I think you are overstating the value resillience had. Sure it was important in pvp but you could get by without it in battlegrounds. The small differences in resillience could be the deciding factor in the 2200+ rating RBGs and arenas. But honestly, that's how it should be. Why should some raid geared toon be able to waltz his way into high rated arenas and be competitive?

And you actually had a hard time as a mage in Cata? Really?

A week? No. I worked my ass off for hours a night for 3 months to get a complete set of honor gear. Maybe its faster NOW, but it took forever when I did it and it sucked.

You think it should be that way, thats fine...I don't. I feel doing challenging things in the GAME should reward the player with things they can use to make them more powerful.

You don't feel you should raid to get good in PvP, I don't feel you should be able to AFK in PvP to become better in PvP. Really, if raiding does nothing to truly advance the player into doing anything more than...more raiding. Why Raid? Why spend any time on the game at all?

The idea of going PvP for PvP gear, and PvE for PvE gear is good on paper, but boring and stale in practice. When I was playing in Cata, nothing could get me into a PvE instance, because I picked up the game again to PvP. Why should half the game be completely pointless to me? Thats horrible design and caused me to burn out as soon as I finally got the gear I needed to not totally suck.

I did alright as a Mage in Cata, I was aware they were considered powerful (mages should be IMO) at the time. I went fresh from 1 to 85, guildless, in like a month all solo, no instances (because, again, why bother??). Then as I said, I grinded mindlessly for months for honor gear (and my arena wand, my one epic). After all that, I did ALRIGHT...I could Ice Lance spam with the best of them, and frost circle as well. Still wasn't fun though.

To answer your question: Yes, if a player has put in the time to raid and down bosses which require its own teamwork and coordination, they should be able to just "waltz into arena and do well". Absolutely, they EARNED that. I think its WAY more stupid to take a player who HAS done all that, and for them to just be slaughtered by 85's with month and a half worth of PvP Blue's. Thats stupid to me.

Stupid to you, perfect sense to me. You do get rewarded for completing challenging raid content. It's just that your reward for raiding is to be better at raiding, not player killing. I can see why some people might dislike this. Unfortunately the market for an MMO simillar to vanilla WoW is long gone. At least for now.
I'd also like to point out that you can completely wreck normal BGs in heroic raid gear...so there's that at least.
Would you be ok with PvP players being able to complete heroic raids in their PvP gear? I'm pretty sure there'd be a riot if it became possible.

And are you sure it took 3 months to get that much honor? Cata's honor system was pretty much the same as MoP's except now you earn conquest a bit faster. You could get 300-500 honor just from winning 1 BG per day. Not the mention the truckload of honor you got from Tol Barad. I'm not trying to argue that you didn't actually spend that much time, it just seems odd that it took that long

I wouldn't have much a problem with PvPer's being able to do Heroics with Epic level PvP Gear, assuming they understood how to do them. Whats it to me if they are able to kill that stuff? Heroic Raids might be a bit much, but certainly Heroic 5-mans and normal raids, absolutely.

I don't recall my exact earning rate, but 300 for that ONE win (maybe), then likely more like 50 or less for most every other game...also, it wasn't that uncommon to play for 5 hours and not win a single BG, those days made me very upset, plus I forget the cost on the items, but they were like 1800-2200 or so a piece if I recall. So it was more like, a week to two weeks PER item. Plus the other things I did outside of PvP, like fly around for hours farming materials for jewelcrafting so I had gems I wanted for my sockets

I did TB like once, I never understood the rules and I didn't much care to either. I liked the small group BGs and thats what I focused on playing. I didn't even much like Arena either. I remember when I finally completed my blue honor set and I was looking at how long it would take me to start getting Epic PvP gear without using the Arena and it came out to something like a 1 year/per item. Thats pretty much when I stopped playing, I simply didn't want to Arena and was out of progression options.

 

[AuronFtw]

Guild Wars 1 was heads and shoulders above any other MMO's attempt at PvP. Sadly, this also includes GW2's pathetic attempts.

Even more sadly, the company (ArenaNet) decided sometime in 2006 that PvE sold better than PvP, and promptly stopped giving PvP the time of day, leading to Guild Wars dying years too early, and Guild Wars 2 being fucking awful.

 

[cjtign]

So I've played MMORPGs since 1999. Played EvE, Knight Online, DAoC, 2moons, Aika, Aion, WoW, WAR

I'd have to say I liked knight online the most then Aika for pvp but I left aika bc it got boring. The arenas are just dominated with win/loss traders for gear, castle siege never occurs bc it takes months to get an alliance to challenge the leading one. And open world PvP is just small random scattered battles.

I moved to The Secret World after its huge PvP content updates, and balancing with 1.4. I have to admit this game has it all and hardcore PvPers should really look at this game.

You can level (get skills AP) entirely through PvP

Heres the PvP content of this game straight up and honest:

1.) Fusang Persistant PvP zone: Open PvP zone with 4x objectives to capture and defend. Hosts about 75 v 75 v 75. Used to be just 1 faction holding all but with underdog missions on Battlegroup A (the main Battlegroup) all 3 factions are constnatly fighting usually its baout 30 v 30 v 30 at all times, weekends will get up to 45 for each side, templar mainly dominates BG-A but its rather balanced. On battlegroup C lumie mainly dominates it except during USA Eastern prime times when templar takes it. On Battlegroup B lumie dominates it.



2.) Stonehenge minigame - 5 v 5 v 5 king of the hill minigame



3.) El Dorado minigame - 10 v 10 v 10 capture the flag minigame



4.) Monthly Duel tournament



5.) Cabal Wars last one was 2 weeks ago, next one is in 5-6 days



6.) Fight Club - Open PvP area



Thats it, they have a PvP dungeon and open world PvP event coming with 1.8 patch.

They got a lot of PvE too but I assume the people reading this thread prefer PvP.

-Koreander
Guild Leader of Primal Instinct PvP / Endgame Cabal
Faction: Templar
Website: http://primalinstinct.info