Bethesda (Makers of such hits as Oblivion and Fallout 3) Says That WRPG's Are More Realistic Than JR

[King of the Sandbox]

At least fantasy rpg's are based on an actual time period and it's mythos. I don't recall a period in history where we all summoned giant monsters or rode around on golden chickens.

I approve of your avatar but I must say this:

I don't recall any time in history in which some guy got thrown in jail and had gotten asked by an emporer to find his son and give him a magic amulet that would seal closed the gates of a hellish type plane that would at one point in the game send out a giant monster to fuck everyone's shit up.

That sounded plausible, right up until "magic amulet".

If you had written that statement from the other perspective, it doesn't take as long.

I don't recall any time in history where a earth-energy-infused super soldier fought a scorpion robot with his Mr. T impersonater buddy (the one with a gun for a hand), after riding a train into a giant factory that steals the earth's lifeforce.

In case you were wondering, it only took until earth-energy-infused super soldier.

 

[Phoenix_XIII]

I think people are taking my first post a bit the wrong way.

My main point of this was:

BETHESDA said this. That's all I'm really saying. BETHESDA.

Then I don't see any discussion value.

It was supposed to be:

What are your thoughts on Bethesda saying this. It's like saying,

"Their games aren't realistic! Now go out and fight your dragons!"

I can admit, JRPG's are quite unrealistic. But Western's aren't any more realistic.

 

[Phoenix_XIII]

At least fantasy rpg's are based on an actual time period and it's mythos. I don't recall a period in history where we all summoned giant monsters or rode around on golden chickens.

I approve of your avatar but I must say this:

I don't recall any time in history in which some guy got thrown in jail and had gotten asked by an emporer to find his son and give him a magic amulet that would seal closed the gates of a hellish type plane that would at one point in the game send out a giant monster to fuck everyone's shit up.

That sounded plausible, right up until "magic amulet".

If you had written that statement from the other perspective, it doesn't take as long.

I don't recall any time in history where a earth-energy-infused super soldier fought a scorpion robot with his Mr. T impersonater buddy (the one with a gun for a hand), after riding a train into a giant factory that steals the earth's lifeforce.

In case you were wondering, it only took until earth-energy-infused super soldier.

Honestly, the examples we're coming up with would make life a hell of a lot more awesome.

WHY CAN'T LIFE BE MORE LIKE GAMES?!

 

[Lord Devius]

I think he's mistaking "realistic" to mean "based in worlds with similarities to our own." Or perhaps, "things that could actually happen." (aside from the specifically Tolkien-esque creatures, that's a European heritage-based thing)

I prefer JRPGs because they (from what I've played) just say "Fuck that, I want to make a story work, so this is how the world works." Or, in the case of some games (Shin Megami Tensei, I'm looking at you), explore the possibilities of alternate, overlapping realities (Persona 3's Tartarus, Strange Journey's Schwarzwelt, the list continues in that series alone). Not many WRPGs do that, from what I've seen. It's mostly been swords and sorcery or pew pew space marines (I do like Mass Effect, but it is fairly typical for a WRPG).

 

[Archangel768]

Oblivion gates, fireballs, dragons, realistic..... yea, sure bethesda, you can keep thinking that if you want.

Although if it's the art style then yea, WRPGs usually use realistic art work but that's about it.

Anyway, he wasn't really insulting them just stating that in general WRPGs have more things in them that could be possible in the future. he said he is generalizing which means he knows it's not entirely correct, just a general statement about what he thinks the difference is.

I just hope (which is never gonna happen) that this doesn't turn into some stupid war between WRPG fans and JRPG fans going on about crap. As I said in the other thread, the term RPG in the video game industry fits a broader description and that both sides can fall under the RPG banner. Despite this, I still think there are going to be a lot of posts from people saying stupid things like which one is the 'true' RPG and what's better. Personally I haven't run into and negative examples of JRPG fans (I know they exist and they can all shut up as well) but, the usual arguments I see from WRPG fans (NOT ALL, SOME) is that they say that their games are 'true' RPGs and they seem act that this somehow makes them better games. (which is a complete lie, whether a game is a 'true' RPG or not doesn't determine if they are good games.

Anyway, I just thought I'd toss that in there because I just know that this is just going to be another thread where people from both sides come to toss in their stupid jokes about each other and say how much better their games are and they are for liking them.

Anyway, I don't really see Bethesda as insulting JRPGs in this case. They are just stating that in GENERAL (NOT ALL) WRPGs seem to be more set in reality.

 

[Phoenix_XIII]

No shit?

Sure, WRPG's usually have the typical Dragons, Wizards, Demonic Cults and shit. JRPG's? Female looking teenagers who save the world with Swords the size of a car, with gravity defying hairstyles. You tell me which one is more likely?

If anyone thinks that statement is false (sure, it's pretty out there, but it's still true) than you are quite possibly retarded.

Where is everyone getting the hair example from? I've got a bunch of JRPG's with characters that have completely normal hair styles.

Would you like the names?

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I have two comments and an observation to make.


Duh. And the sky is blue.


Do they say that for a good thing? Isn't realism what we try to get away from when we play games? Being less realistic and more out there is a good thing.




Wrpg folk seem to like to take jabs at Jrpgs all the time...it's like they have some sort of inferiority complex. Either they're still sour over FFVII's popularity, or (the more likely option)they're jealous of how Japanese games aren't all dumbed down for the masses, preserving some of the creators' vision in the process. Thus they feel like lashing out at something which hasn't had the wings chopped off of it just to be less threatening to the average Joe, which is quite sad.

 

[Liquidcool]

I think people are taking my first post a bit the wrong way.

My main point of this was:

BETHESDA said this. That's all I'm really saying. BETHESDA.

I think that by "realistic" that they were thinking more along the lines of the laws of physics and what not. I mean, leaping 20 feet into the air without giving an explanation is less realistic. Mind you, this is not necessarily criticism, it's just pointing something out.

 

[Arcticflame]

I agree with bethesda. The realism they speak of is difficult to nail down, the choice quote is this.

well, this could really be happening. It?s got this somewhat of a suspension of disbelief, even when we do fantasy stuff.

I find this to be accurate. Realism in gaming/books/movies etc, isn't realism in the sense of finding elements of the real world in the game, Realism in games is defining rules and boundaries and sticking to them for the sake of the gamer. Movies like The Matrix can seem more "real" than a movie by David lynch, even though the matrix is entirely about how reality, is not reality. This is because we see how reality in this fantasy functions, and we go with it.
I don't go WTF when neo starts flying, because I understand WHY he can. The unrealism begins when things happen that you feel shouldn't have. Take manga's like bleach, people started crying foul when certain characters began to beat other characters, how unrealistic it was, because their power levels as defined by the author, were broken in the view of the reader.

Often when I'm playing a western RPG, despite it being a game of dragons, magic, etc etc. It still is bound by some sort of rule set that makes sense, and is feasible in a broad sense. The fantasy elements still are a cohesive system.

JRPG's tend to be less defined in this sense, and more just random stuff which isn't really explained to the degree it is in western RPG's. Often this can become a mess of elements which isn't workable. People like quantifiable elements. People like systems where they can settle their mind into. WRPG's have this more often than JRPG's.

This is of course a massive generalisation, and you will note the interviewed member said so.

Perhaps this is a result of D&D creeping in, due to the heavy rule set and nature of how it's played, very defined circumstances and interaction of fantasy elements. Or perhaps this is also because WRPG's tend to stick more to the straight and narrows than JRPG's.

I'm ignorant as to where JRPG's derive most their influences from, but certainly I feel JRPG's seem less realistic in the sense I outlined.

 

[Phoenix_XIII]

No shit?

Sure, WRPG's usually have the typical Dragons, Wizards, Demonic Cults and shit. JRPG's? Female looking teenagers who save the world with Swords the size of a car, with gravity defying hairstyles. You tell me which one is more likely?

If anyone thinks that statement is false (sure, it's pretty out there, but it's still true) than you are quite possibly retarded.

Where is everyone getting the hair example from? I've got a bunch of JRPG's with characters that have completely normal hair styles.

Would you like the names?

It's just a staple of JRPG's, like the whole girly looking teenagers and colossal swords that they swing around as if it was a lightsaber.

Very true, but I haven't seen that in Modern Jrpg's. Like, Kingdom Hearts has every character's hair dipped in uber freezing gel, but take a game like...

Resonance of Fate. For one, it uses guns. And all the characters that matter have normal hair.

Another thing JRPG's noramlly all have in common is the lack of respect for the Laws of Physics but screw physics! I'M GONNA JUMP IN THE AIR FOR 20 FEET AND YOU'LL DEAL WITH IT.

But my above statement is irrelevant and as time goes on, JRPG characters are getting more normal hair.

 

[The Mehster]

I'm going to have to kinda agree with Bethesda. Although in fallout, you hit somebody enough times with a hammer to the chest and their head flys off. It's a tad more realistic than something like FFX, where a guy with a ball is somewhat more powerful (in the long run) than a woman who can summon Ifrit the fire demon.
And also, Bethesda doesn't only make Medieval WRPGs.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Realism exists in fantasy too, I wouldn't think so many people here would be hitched on the technicality.


It's more realistic for fantasy swords to stab monsters like real life swords would stab animals than it is for them to chop mountains in half as though they were made out of snow. That's Wrpg and Jrpg contrasted.


You're missing the BIG PICTURE here lol. It's BETTER to have cool extra out there super awesome things in our games. Mundane stuff for the sake of familiarity and easy comprehension is a compromise and worsens the experience.

 

[GrimHeaper]

No shit?

Sure, WRPG's usually have the typical Dragons, Wizards, Demonic Cults and shit. JRPG's? Female looking teenagers who save the world with Swords the size of a car, with gravity defying hairstyles. You tell me which one is more likely?

If anyone thinks that statement is false (sure, it's pretty out there, but it's still true) than you are quite possibly retarded.

Where is everyone getting the hair example from? I've got a bunch of JRPG's with characters that have completely normal hair styles.

Would you like the names?

It's just a staple of JRPG's, like the whole girly looking teenagers and colossal swords that they swing around as if it was a lightsaber.

Well they are about the same realism wise.
Just by your example the JRPG one sounds more likely though.
I mean some people do have hair that defies gravity Naturally.
And those swords aren't really that much Larger than Claymores.

 

[Phoenix_XIII]

I'm going to have to kinda agree with Bethesda. Although in fallout, you hit somebody enough times with a hammer to the chest and their head flys off. It's a tad more realistic than something like FFX, where a guy with a ball is somewhat more powerful (in the long run) than a woman who can summon Ifrit the fire demon.

I can imagine a scenario that would make a strange flash cartoon in which the girl summons Ifrit and the guy just hits Ifrit in the face with the Blitz Ball before he can even do anything and it keeps happening until Ifrit just falls down.

I'd watch that.

 

[Angerwing]

WRPGs are more realistic in that they pretty much always follow the our rules of physics and biology, basically. The premises may be equally ridiculous, but JRPG setting are for more surreal.

I don't understand why you're getting buttmad over this.

 

[Phoenix_XIII]

WRPGs are more realistic in that they pretty much always follow the our rules of physics and biology, basically. The premises may be equally ridiculous, but JRPG setting are for more surreal.

I don't understand why you're getting buttmad over this.

All I was originally saying is that Bethesda has no room to talk in the realism department.