Bethesdas reliance on the Modding comunity

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saruto

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Sep 20, 2009
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I have both on Xbox 360 and I don't really mind at all.
The game is big enough and detailed enough for me to be quite content.
While I have seen mods that do look rather spectacular, I think that basing a fairly strong opinion on something that is really very small compared to the entire game is a little over the top.
 

MiracleOfSound

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Jan 3, 2009
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I used to think that the size of the games excused in some part the huge amount of bugs and glitches in Beth's games.

But having played Borderlands to completion and seen its technical superiority, I have come to realise that yes, Beth are lazy with thier programming.

Anyone remember the Pitt disaster? I payed for it and couldn't play it until 6 days later.
 

bcponpcp27

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Jan 9, 2009
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I don't agree with "lazy" at all. Seriously, these are huge games with a ton of re-playability. Maybe it's because I play them on consoles, but mods definitely are NOT necessary to enjoy these games many times.
 

YuheJi

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Mar 17, 2009
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saruto said:
I have both on Xbox 360 and I don't really mind at all.
The game is big enough and detailed enough for me to be quite content.
While I have seen mods that do look rather spectacular, I think that basing a fairly strong opinion on something that is really very small compared to the entire game is a little over the top.
You wouldn't believe how massive some of those mods have gotten. Complete game overhaul mods.
I generally take it as a very appreciated bonus, as modders are more likely to show off crazy ideas (as they have nothing to lose) and I love how Bethesda has allowed the modding communities to grow. I don't think it's lazy, but quite smart.
 

Eclectic Dreck

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Sep 3, 2008
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Bethesda puts in a tremendous amount of work making games that are excellent in their own right. But unfortunately, for any number of perfectly understandable (or at least generally excusable) reasons at the end of the day they product they deliver, while excellent, is still far shy of what it COULD have been.

I'd say that it should be taken as a complement (in general, the unoffical patches are a bit of a jab at Bethesda's QC team) that bethesda provides a framework good enough that hundreds of talented people are willing to add content to the games for free.

In many cases, this content simply couldn't have been put into the game for retail release. In my perusal of both Oblivion and Fallout 3 mods, I've found dozens of mods that exist for little other reason than to add some gratuitius nudity (or outright hardcore pornography) to a game. Other mods add content without regard to cannon, game balance or mechanics. But there are a few out there that produce mods that actually help bring the wasteland or Tameriel to life better than Bethesda managed. From a simple mod that makes the night sky more realistic through the use of actual high-res images of the nigh sky to mods that give characters a little more character in conversation.

In many cases, the limiting factor may simply have been technological. Few people have a super powerful gaming machine and thus don't have the graphics horsepower to spare rendering models wrapped in nothing but ultra-high resolution skins. Going from the vanilla version of fallout 3 set to ultra high to a version leveraging a lot of these new models and skins more than doubled my standard memory usage to nearly 3 gb.

In other cases, it might simpy be that they ran out of time. Bethesda, like any game company, needs to ship games by certain dates, and inevitably features and ideas get cut in the process to make sure the game ships.

I had almost forgotten why I loved playing PC games until I built myself a new machine and threw oblivion in the drive. Sure I enjoyed oblivion as much as one could expect when I played it on 360. But now I had access to more content than the game could ever have hoped to ship with.
 

lostclause

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Mar 31, 2009
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j0z said:
I can not and will not play a Bethesda game on a console.
Why?
Because once you have experienced the difference some of the mods make with those games, it will blow you away. How did I ever survive with unscaled containers? Without Midas Magick? Without Unique Landscapes? Without the mirad of other mods that have mutated my Oblivion into something completely different?
I have beaten Oblivion almost completely, but the mods and their new quests keep me coming back.
This is the reason I haven't got those two games yet.

Anyway, to call their reliance on mods lazy is a bit harsh. Valve must do no work at all by comparison considering how much their games rely on mods (Prop hunt, neotokyo, zombie panic source, black mesa just to name a few) yet its the modding community that helps to make their games great (again, part of the reason I haven't got these games on console).
 

squid5580

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Feb 20, 2008
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plus2 said:
Branovices said:
Calling Oblivion and Fallout 3, some of the most massive and detailed games out there, a lazy effort? You have a very skewed perception, I think.
Okay so maybe lazy is the wrong word to use. But it seems, incomplete.
How do you figure it is incomplete? Honestly just because people get creative with it doesn't take anything away from the game itself. Unless the 100 hours I spent in Oblivion and the 200 hours I spent in Fallout 3 before the DLC were non existent. And that was on the console so Ididn't have or need a mod to enjoy it. How much time and effort do you expect from them? And how much room do you really think is on an 8gb disc?
 

In Limbo

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Nov 4, 2008
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When modders have to patch your game for you, I call that lazy. Not to discount Bethesda's work, but it seems a bit cynical when they release an incomplete game - because they must realise that their community will fix it for them. At the very least they could check the unofficial patches for malicious code and 'officially' release them, so players not au fait with using mods can enjoy the benefits of a bug-free game. As long as the modders were credited I'm sure they wouldn't mind.

I'm sure a lot of people really enjoyed Oblivion and Fallout 3 on consoles, but honestly, once you've played Oblivion with all the 'essential' mods and patches loaded, you can never go back.
 
Jan 23, 2009
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No reliance as they produce their games for consoles- and thats where most of sales come from.

The bethesa games are so epicly huge that they can only do so much.

Just be happy we do have an excellent modding community on this platform and that developers like Bethesa recognise that- and go so far as to provide tools for modders.

Not all developers believe in this- take for example Infinity wards decision to cut out dedicated servers thereby removing all ability for servermods to exist in the upcoming MW2...
 

Socius

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Dec 26, 2008
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Bethesda create the quests and the frame of the game!
but they rely on gamers to furfill their game, this way it becomes
easier for gamers to like the game, because they can do whatever they want
 

saruto

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Sep 20, 2009
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YuheJi said:
saruto said:
I have both on Xbox 360 and I don't really mind at all.
The game is big enough and detailed enough for me to be quite content.
While I have seen mods that do look rather spectacular, I think that basing a fairly strong opinion on something that is really very small compared to the entire game is a little over the top.
You wouldn't believe how massive some of those mods have gotten. Complete game overhaul mods.
I generally take it as a very appreciated bonus, as modders are more likely to show off crazy ideas (as they have nothing to lose) and I love how Bethesda has allowed the modding communities to grow. I don't think it's lazy, but quite smart.
I stand corrected then.
I did catch a glimpse of that Morrowind upgrade... I believe it was called Morroblivion? And last I heard, Bethesda was putting an end to it?
 

Silent but Violent

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Mar 9, 2009
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I don't know if Bethesda consciously rely on modders, but I do know that myself and numerous others buy Bethesda's games because we know we can mod the fuck out of them. Vanilla Oblivion is, in my opinion, a very generic fairly pretty first person sword-swinger - with some magic and stealth tacked on. But due to Bethesda deliberately making it moddable, I bought it over, say, Dark Messiah.
 

Erana

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Feb 28, 2008
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A while ago, I got Morrowind for the PC.
I had had the game for Xbox back before my poor baby died on me, and I thought, "OMG, this will be awesome! All the new mods, console commands... The possibilities are endless!"

All I wound up with is hours of wading through porn patches in order to find a few mods whose novelties wore off pretty quickly.

Mods are waaaaay over rated in my personal fun factor. And since I have more fun with a console, I'm never buying these games on the PC agian, any time soon.
 

Jupsto

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Feb 8, 2008
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at least they support modding have to give them credit for the amount of support they give to modders. most companys won't support mods at all so...

PS: morrowind is still a boring game even when modded to recent quality graphics xD
 

Nova5

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Sep 5, 2009
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azncutthroat said:
I own the console port of Fallout 3 (and "borrowed without asking" my friend's Oblivion), and they felt like solid games. Until I read about and searched online for the PC mods. I feel kinda ripped off that I can't customize my game with the same $60 that PC users pay.
Less than $60. They were selling Oblivion: GOTY at Fry's for $50 at launch, and are currently selling it for around $20. I'd feel pretty ripped off too >_>