Beyond Good and Evil 2 is reminding alot of another old franchise....

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

And that Franchise is Jak and Daxter.

Jak 1 started off as this kid friendly platforming game to rival that of Mario/Sonic/Crash Bandicoot, etc.


Than Jak 2 came along and changed EVERYTHING, but especially, the premise and tone:


Swear words, guns, sex appeal, dystopia looking cities, etc. basically the game got grimdark and has been since in Jak 3 and Jak X Combat Racing and the Daxter PSP game (we don't talk about Lost Frontier...)and yet this made the Jak games a whole lot more interesting and better for it.

Beyond Good and Evil 2 from the recent trailer alone is giving off the exact same vibes that Jak did, a kid friendly game going full on "adult" the next game, now if this makes Beyond Good and Evil better going this direction we shall see.

 

[Drathnoxis]

Jak II got so tedious to play. Not really because of the tonal shift, but just mechanically. Those underwater segments were abysmal.

 

[mariosonicfan5]

Oh don't worry, All we have seen of BGAE 2 is a fully prerendered trailer, and some very very early beta test footage....they have plenty of time to not release this game and completely redo it...you know like they did almost 6-7 years ago...and then recently again, as there have been "trailers" and "gameplay" of this game as far back as e3 2014.

We'll just have to wait and see if it ever actually comes out.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Oh don't worry, All we have seen of BGAE 2 is a fully prerendered trailer, and some very very early beta test footage....they have plenty of time to not release this game and completely redo it...you know like they did almost 6-7 years ago...and then recently again, as there have been "trailers" and "gameplay" of this game as far back as e3 2014.

We'll just have to wait and see if it ever actually comes out.

If nothing shows up for E3 2018 I'll believe you.

But I was referring to the change in tone and despite being a pre-rendered trailer, it still showcased what the game will be like.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Jak II got so tedious to play. Not really because of the tonal shift, but just mechanically. Those underwater segments were abysmal.

Oh don't get me started on the racing missions, especially with Errol

 

[Mikejames]

After waiting for so long, I won't write off Beyond Good and Evil 2 this early in development. But I will admit that all of the details we've seen so far are kind of a series of red flags for me.

Jade's replaced with a player-made character. The small atmospheric setting is replaced with a massive open-world galaxy that almost sounds like No Man's Sky levels of ambitious. The colorful art style and charming dialogue is replaced with gritty detailed realism and constant swearing, etc.

It just sounds like a completely different game really. So even though I loved the original I'll probably try to judge the sequel by its own merits and hope for the best. Assuming it's actually released this time.

I hope I can still take pictures of space whales.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

i gots this theory that the original beyond good and evil's commercial failure was the one catalyst for Ubisoft's fear of female protagonists, hence why they're only religated to DLC and second-class characters in main games. It didn't help that when they attempted to add the duel option in AC: Syndicate, the previous title's infamous buggy release and critical reception along with series burnout tanked sales, which to an out-of-touch CEO already worried about gamer's perceptions of the 'womens' affecting profits, would be attributed to that one factor

what fuels this further is that the sequel news came with a comment from a CEO of Ubi saying that the game will be made 'more accessable to modern audiences' to avoid the commercial failure of the first, and when pressed by people asking if it meant the game would be 'casualised' (as if the original wasn't), he reiterated that they do not intend for it to be more casual player-oriented
and curiously enough, there is now a player creation tool instead for everyone...hmm...no way people can be displeased with the protagonist now, surely

to be fair, i see it as a Ubisoft problem, not a player problem, that is a fear they need to get over, I hear the latest AC: Origins also flirts anxiously with a brief female player and can only think to myself "oh, ubisoft"

personally, i do hope they keep the pokemon snap style background element, it really helps the world-building in a rather cute way

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

i gots this theory that the original beyond good and evil's commercial failure was the one catalyst for Ubisoft's fear of female protagonists, hence why they're only religated to DLC and second-class characters in main games. It didn't help that when they attempted to add the duel option in AC: Syndicate, the previous title's infamous buggy release and critical reception along with series burnout tanked sales, which to an out-of-touch CEO already worried about gamer's perceptions of the 'womens' affecting profits, would be attributed to that one factor

what fuels this further is that the sequel news came with a comment from a CEO of Ubi saying that the game will be made 'more accessable to modern audiences' to avoid the commercial failure of the first, and when pressed by people asking if it meant the game would be 'casualised' (as if the original wasn't), he reiterated that they do not intend for it to be more casual player-oriented
and curiously enough, there is now a player creation tool instead for everyone...hmm...no way people can be displeased with the protagonist now, surely

to be fair, i see it as a Ubisoft problem, not a player problem, that is a fear they need to get over, I hear the latest AC: Origins also flirts anxiously with a brief female player and can only think to myself "oh, ubisoft"

personally, i do hope they keep the pokemon snap style background element, it really helps the world-building in a rather cute way

To play Devil's Advocate, when I was a kid around this time the game released, I was made aware of this game through Video Game Magazines and than I looked at this image of Beyond Good and Evil with the main character Jade:

Its not the exact picture but had that same image of Jade hiding and stuff.

And as a young kid I thought "What all I can do in this game is hide and take pictures of the bad guys? Lame "

Its not the fact that she's a women, its that I thought she looked boring, she's not Samus Aran, she's not Lara Croft, she's not any badass female fighting game charcater. Who is this chick and why should I care?

That impression I got from that sole image of the game in the Magazine I read as a kid turned me off, and I feel it was the same impression alot of kids felt. I never watched video footage of the game because remember the game was released in an era before Youtube and Internet was not as Mainstream as it is now.

 

[Squilookle]

I never played J&D, but I always assumed it was basically Ratchet and Clank, except actually good.

 

[Natemans]

Jak 2 is probably one of my favorite games

 

[Casual Shinji]

I never played J&D, but I always assumed it was basically Ratchet and Clank, except actually good.

Yeah no, it's actually the other way around. No offense, Jak fans, but that series was a bit shit.

 

[Squilookle]

I never played J&D, but I always assumed it was basically Ratchet and Clank, except actually good.

Yeah no, it's actually the other way around. No offense, Jak fans, but that series was a bit shit.

Sorry- I may never have played Jak so can't comment on it's quality, but I played enough Ratchet to see it for the steaming fetid garbage that it passed off as platforming. It wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes on a 90's/2000s Nintendo console.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

I never played J&D, but I always assumed it was basically Ratchet and Clank, except actually good.

Yeah no, it's actually the other way around. No offense, Jak fans, but that series was a bit shit.

Sorry- I may never have played Jak so can't comment on it's quality, but I played enough Ratchet to see it for the steaming fetid garbage that it passed off as platforming. It wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes on a 90's/2000s Nintendo console.

So what's your beef with Ratchet and what is Casual Shinji's beef with Jak?

 

[Squilookle]

I never played J&D, but I always assumed it was basically Ratchet and Clank, except actually good.

Yeah no, it's actually the other way around. No offense, Jak fans, but that series was a bit shit.

Sorry- I may never have played Jak so can't comment on it's quality, but I played enough Ratchet to see it for the steaming fetid garbage that it passed off as platforming. It wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes on a 90's/2000s Nintendo console.

So what's your beef with Ratchet and what is Casual Shinji's beef with Jak?

I've explained mine- dunno what Shinji's is though

 

[Casual Shinji]

Sorry- I may never have played Jak so can't comment on it's quality, but I played enough Ratchet to see it for the steaming fetid garbage that it passed off as platforming. It wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes on a 90's/2000s Nintendo console.

Well, it wasn't really a platformer. Maybe the first one tried to be, but by the second Insomniac realized where their strength lay, and that was in the acrade shooter. And as an arcade shooter the second and third game hold up very well.

So what's your beef with Ratchet and what is Casual Shinji's beef with Jak?

Apart from that the controls have aged horrendously (seriously, trying to shoot enemies in those games was a nightmare), there's a teenage edge to it that I always found unappealing. That typical 90's, big sneakers, backwards cap, posing in front of a brick wall type "coolness". It had its moments, but overall it was a mess. That's not even commenting on how brokenly difficult Jak 2 was -- I must've been out of my mind actually making it through that game.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Sorry- I may never have played Jak so can't comment on it's quality, but I played enough Ratchet to see it for the steaming fetid garbage that it passed off as platforming. It wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes on a 90's/2000s Nintendo console.

Well, it wasn't really a platformer. Maybe the first one tried to be, but by the second Insomniac realized where their strength lay, and that was in the acrade shooter. And as an arcade shooter the second and third game hold up very well.

So what's your beef with Ratchet and what is Casual Shinji's beef with Jak?

Apart from that the controls have aged horrendously (seriously, trying to shoot enemies in those games was a nightmare), there's a teenage edge to it that I always found unappealing. That typical 90's, big sneakers, backwards cap, posing in front of a brick wall type "coolness". It had its moments, but overall it was a mess. That's not even commenting on how brokenly difficult Jak 2 was -- I must've been out of my mind actually making it through that game.

1. Deadlocked was the last good Ratchet and Clank and it was the best.

2. That edginess is what made the later Jak games awesome and memorable. Ratchet and Clank lost its Edge after Deadlocked and look what happen, the god awful future series and newest game trying to emulate Pixar.

3. I heavily disagree with the controls and shooting to a degree (Its mostly auto aim), but agree that the games are ball stomping, rage inducingly hard. Fuck everyone who compares any hard game to Dark Souls.

 

[Tautology]

1. Deadlocked was the last good Ratchet and Clank and it was the best.

2. That edginess is what made the later Jak games awesome and memorable. Ratchet and Clank lost its Edge after Deadlocked and look what happen, the god awful future series and newest game trying to emulate Pixar.

3. I heavily disagree with the controls and shooting to a degree (Its mostly auto aim), but agree that the games are ball stomping, rage inducingly hard. Fuck everyone who compares any hard game to Dark Souls.

What's wrong with the more recent Ratchet and Clank games? They too kid friendly for you? I have played every single Ratchet and Clank game and can't say any of them were terrible. I found them all quite enjoyable. The Future series is largely the same in terms of overall quality as the previous games, but prettier. Whether or not that's bad is a matter of opinion. My only real complaint is that Into the Nexus was way too short.

I don't know how simply being "edgy" makes something awesome or memorable. The series is good because it had a great story, interesting characters, and solid gameplay. Jak II being "grimdark" on it's own is not significant. Jak 3 was noticeably brighter in tone compared to Jak II. A middle-ground between the tones of Precursor Legacy and Jak II.

What is significant is what that tonal shift through the Jak and Daxter trilogy represents in the story. It's Jak growing up and his progression as a character. It also represents his balancing the dark eco infused into him with light eco. The Faux Precursor LITERALLY sums it up in the end of Jak II when it says "The terrible darkness inside you is now balanced by a glorious light!" The dark and light eco meters in Jak 3 also make a Taijitu to symbolize that balance.

Finally, Jak II is not that difficult. Sure, It's harder than the first and the difficulty does spike a little more in some parts, but it's nowhere near "ball stomping, rage inducingly hard." That would be the first Crash Bandicoot.

 

[Hawki]

Ooh, a Jak vs. Ratchet debate?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F5wsvSRYjE

(You're welcome.)

 

[Casual Shinji]

What's wrong with the more recent Ratchet and Clank games? They too kid friendly for you? I have played every single Ratchet and Clank game and can't say any of them were terrible. I found them all quite enjoyable. The Future series is largely the same in terms of overall quality as the previous games, but prettier. Whether or not that's bad is a matter of opinion. My only real complaint is that Into the Nexus was way too short.

I would never make this claim otherwise, but yeah, I feel they did get a bit too kid friendly. And with that they lost most of their sense of humor. R&C2 and 3 were totally wacky, but as soon as the Future series came along everything got all overly emotional and serious, with these very kid friendly gags. Also adding that nonsense of Ratchet being the last of his kind, and Clank having some sort of space destiny was cringeworthy. Tools of Destruction was still a blast to play, but character wise it was rubbish.

 

[Tautology]

What's wrong with the more recent Ratchet and Clank games? They too kid friendly for you? I have played every single Ratchet and Clank game and can't say any of them were terrible. I found them all quite enjoyable. The Future series is largely the same in terms of overall quality as the previous games, but prettier. Whether or not that's bad is a matter of opinion. My only real complaint is that Into the Nexus was way too short.

I would never make this claim otherwise, but yeah, I feel they did get a bit too kid friendly. And with that they lost most of their sense of humor. R&C2 and 3 were totally wacky, but as soon as the Future series came along everything got all overly emotional and serious, with these very kid friendly gags. Also adding that nonsense of Ratchet being the last of his kind, and Clank having some sort of space destiny was cringeworthy. Tools of Destruction was still a blast to play, but character wise it was rubbish.

I'll agree that there were story and character issues as the series went on. Sometimes it's enough to impact your experience of a game. Ratchet and Clank has always been one of those franchises I gave a pass on the story simply because I liked playing them.

The Jak and Daxter series also suffers from the same problem to a lesser extent.