Biden accused of bribing electorate in relation to Georgia election

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Dwarvenhobble

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#Realcommunismhasneverbeentried

or whatever keeps being said lol.


A communist society would be a stateless, classless society. How do you figure a ruling class fits into that?
Some-one has to tell people what to do. Is the expectation people will somehow work perfectly fine an in a perfectly organised way without anyone acting to organise and manage people?

It still ends up creating classes even if in theory they don't get any extra compensation directly for their position.
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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What exactly does a stateless classless society mean?
The only way I can see it working is a monthly Job lottery.

This month you will be.............Head of Education............Next Month you will be.............ship repairer

You guys seem to have this great grand idea in your heads of the ultimately communist society, if you can't even spell it out then its doomed to fail.
They just imagine a hippy commune but on a giant national scale Not realising that on a grander scale than a small group it will mean trying to figure out how to organise people to do jobs that require a lot of specialisation or work but also are often not very enjoyable. Most communes etc have ways to generate funding to pay for some external services still or rely on some external services still

Man, countless books have been written by very wordy men. It's not succinct and it's not simple. Asking a French Revolutionary to lay out their entire outline for a representative democracy and how society would function without a monarchy in a few paragraphs would be as difficult as asking us to quickly sum up how an entire society would run. Any brief description I give will have holes in it because I couldn't begin to cover everything without writing pages and pages.

The Conquest of Bread, The Communist Manifesto or, if you want something more modern, Leaderless Revolution or anything by Chomsky. They don't write books on this shit because it's easy to sum up in a couple of paragraphs. You're own self-inflicted ignorance is not a point against anarchism, communism, socialism or anything else you'd like to throw in. If you're going to have strong feelings about how wrong an ideology is read a single word of what it's proponents have to say about it.
And look how the French Revolution played out. With groups part of it turning on one another and it not being about much more than adhering to an every changing set of positions and beliefs or being deemed the next traitor.
 
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Revnak

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Some-one has to tell people what to do. Is the expectation people will somehow work perfectly fine an in a perfectly organised way without anyone acting to organise and manage people?

It still ends up creating classes even if in theory they don't get any extra compensation directly for their position.
“Instructor/leader” is not a class.
 

Trunkage

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I know it sounds weird. Statelessness was Marx's aim. Every attempt has utterly failed at tis

It's similar to Capitalism. If the world was actually Capitalistic, it might actually be a utopia. Unfortunately, both get corrupted so easily and used against the general populace

Edit: I should also say that Lenin took Marx's ideas but thought that the general populace needed some.. guidance. From smart people who knew better that everyone else. Which ended up being a ruling elite. And he used terrorism against his own party years before his ever took office (using Stalin and Trotsky to do it, mind you.)
 
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Trunkage

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Moving the discussion from the other thread to this one...



Nothing, it's technically true. It doesn't tell the whole story, but it's technically true.
Ah, so random acts of accusation.

Also, the media probably will never tell the whole story. For multiple reasons, not just because they are propaganda. It's how media works.
 
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Trunkage

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#Realcommunismhasneverbeentried

or whatever keeps being said lol.
Where does this #Realcommunismhasneverbeentried come from?

Capitalists, for decades, saying that we've never tried Capitalism.

I do wish both sides would stop thinking this wins any argument though. It kinda makes it seem that both ideologies are not at all possible
 

Revnak

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Where does this #Realcommunismhasneverbeentried come from?

Capitalists, for decades, saying that we've never tried Capitalism.

I do wish both sides would stop thinking this wins any argument though. It kinda makes it seem that both ideologies are not at all possible
I want to make it clear I’ve never made that argument and would not, and would instead say it has not been achieved, as communism is meant as a worldwide shift in productive methods (much like capitalism is, but it has been achieved).
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Where does this #Realcommunismhasneverbeentried come from?

Capitalists, for decades, saying that we've never tried Capitalism.

I do wish both sides would stop thinking this wins any argument though. It kinda makes it seem that both ideologies are not at all possible
Every time some-one points to a commuist / mostly communist claiming to be socialist regime that collapses the constant comment is "Well they didn't follow Marx's teaching properly or close enough if only they'd stuck to the true teachings it would have worked"
 
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Revnak

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Every time some-one points to a commuist / mostly communist claiming to be socialist regime that collapses the constant comment is "Well they didn't follow Marx's teaching properly or close enough if only they'd stuck to the true teachings it would have worked"
Have you ever criticized a state professing to be capitalist? Same difference genius.
 

Trunkage

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Every time some-one points to a commuist / mostly communist claiming to be socialist regime that collapses the constant comment is "Well they didn't follow Marx's teaching properly or close enough if only they'd stuck to the true teachings it would have worked"
Have you ever met a Libertarian? Classical Liberal? They've been saying the same things for well over a century. Usually to counter Communists complaints about them. That's where they got the idea from.

And, as I said, I think either side using this shoots themselves in the foot
 
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Trunkage

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Have you ever criticized a state professing to be capitalist? Same difference genius.
It's all the more galling when you realise that CEOs aren't Capitalists at all.

Capitalism is about profit and loss. CEOs put the losses onto society. Capitalism is rule of law. CEOs change the rules to benefit their company alone. They even have the temerity to pretend that their company or industry deserves special attention and should be treated as such (you know, the opposite of Capitalism.) See both Green and Coal Energy sectors for great examples of this.

The rich wouldn't know what Capitalism is if someone hit them with it. They are the reason Capitalism has failed
 

Revnak

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Pretty sure I have lol Hell I said before how there needs to be some regulating markets to stop abuses.
Yeah. When I criticize the failings of the Soviet Union or Cuba, it’s a similar thing.
 

Gordon_4

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Yeah but I have to use an example from the right. Just because they never deliver on their promises doesn't mean it isn't the same premise, a campaign promise.
No I agree with you. Biden saying vote for us and get two grand in the stimulus package is as you say a campaign promise. So even people who don’t vote for him are gonna get it. I mean shit if that qualifies as bribery then every single tax cut given to the rich - and the not rich come to that - is a bribe.
 
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