Biden helps avert railway strike.

[The Rogue Wolf]

Citations, quotes, evidence?

US Supreme Court hears case to determine authority over elections

Republican politicians advance theory that could shift power away from courts in determining election rules and maps.

www.aljazeera.com

Let's just go back to feudalism: It's your Count that votes!

 

[Generals]

Democrats are causing bigger problems with keeping democracy than republicans... (Information control ala The Great Hack is more dangerous to democracy than some idiot saying the voting machines powered by the ghost of Hugo Chavez is rigging elections or whatever the fuck it was).

How so? Democrats just tend to complain about legislation which makes it harder to vote. Which seems .... pro democracy.
And the polls suggesting a vast majority of republicans think the 2020 elections were rigged show you are wrong. The lies about stolen elections have persuaded millions of Americans.

The BLM protests were a bigger issue than Jan 6th. Where's all the talk on here about what those have caused? The very people that the protesters wanted to help have caused those people to be worse off.

The BLM protests are totally unrelated. They weren't about overturning a government and invalidating elections.

My confidence in voting is already at a point that's about as low as it can go and it has nothing to do with votes actually being counted wrong or not being counted. What's the point in rigging an election that you can't lose to begin with?

Because there are two different shades of grey, the choice isn't great but at least you have a choice.

 

[tippy2k2]

 

[twistedmic]

That tweet downplays how serious the consequences of a rail strike would have been pretty much to the point of misrepresentation.

 

[tippy2k2]

That tweet downplays how serious the consequences of a rail strike would have been pretty much to the point of misrepresentation.

Sounds like you think those workers are pretty important. I guess the corporations should probably give them some sick days and if Biden INSISTS on stepping in, they should force the corporations to give them sick days instead of crushing one of the few leverages workers have...

 

[twistedmic]

Sounds like you think those workers are pretty important. I guess the corporations should probably give them some sick days and if Biden INSISTS on stepping in, they should force the corporations to give them sick days instead of crushing one of the few leverages workers have...

The rail workers that were holding out wanted twice as many paid suck days as most of the country. That’s not just some. The rail workers were able to do away with being penalized for calling in sick. Most employees n America will get dinged in one way or another for calling in sick.

A strike would have risked economic collapse, people starving from lack of food deliveries, jacked up power and food costs (for what little was on the shelf), a lack of clean drinking water and necessary medicines. Biden stepped in to protect the majority of the country. I’d say most presidents, Democrat or Republican, would have done the same.

Also, Biden has said he will continue to strive for paid sick leave for rail workers. You can choose not to believe him all you want. You can assume he is outright lying. But your assumptions do not make it reality and if is too early to say that he will never do anything to further help the rail workers.

Biden isn’t even the first President to do something like this either. It has happened in the past.

 

[Dreiko]

They should have just went on with the strike anyways. Even if they fired em all it's not like they'd be able to replace them instantly anyways so it'd be the same disastrous effects to the economy as if a strike had transpired, if not more. You can't expect your threat to mean anything if you're not willing to risk things and go through with it.



If someone is upholding the system that our economy relies on to function, they should be able to get sick leave, and be financially stable. Simple as that. Just like...take the Ukraine money and give it to them or something. Or, for a more corporatist solution, give it to railway companies to hire more people so they can afford to give people time off.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

The rail workers that were holding out wanted twice as many paid suck days as most of the country. That’s not just some. The rail workers were able to do away with being penalized for calling in sick. Most employees n America will get dinged in one way or another for calling in sick.

A strike would have risked economic collapse, people starving from lack of food deliveries, jacked up power and food costs (for what little was on the shelf), a lack of clean drinking water and necessary medicines. Biden stepped in to protect the majority of the country. I’d say most presidents, Democrat or Republican, would have done the same.

Also, Biden has said he will continue to strive for paid sick leave for rail workers. You can choose not to believe him all you want. You can assume he is outright lying. But your assumptions do not make it reality and if is too early to say that he will never do anything to further help the rail workers.

Biden isn’t even the first President to do something like this either. It has happened in the past.

And it was the wrong call then too. The USA's shitty working conditions for everybody shouldn't be held up as The Bar to compare strike actions too.

On Call 24/7, having to take 12 hours shifts at a moment's notice forever, and the best we can do is "we won't penalize you (outside of burning your vacation time or not paying you) for literally being sick" is bullshit. I might not have as many sick days, but I'm not having to man 12 hours of driving a train after being up my normal day for 15 hours at literally any time. I have 2-3 guaranteed days off a week, same as most people.

Seriously think about your average week, then factor in a 12 hour shift coming in with 2 hours notice at literally any time. 3 am? It's your responsibility to be rested. 10 pm? It's your responsibility to be rested. How the fuck do you live around that?

 

[Silvanus]

The rail workers were able to do away with being penalized for calling in sick. Most employees n America will get dinged in one way or another for calling in sick.

They don't get points for starting to provide the absolute bare minimum. It's a travesty that anyone is penalised for calling in sick.

A strike would have risked economic collapse, people starving from lack of food deliveries, jacked up power and food costs (for what little was on the shelf), a lack of clean drinking water and necessary medicines.

It is the company that has taken the responsibility onto itself to provide for the needs of the country. Not the employees.

The employees have a contractual, reciprocal relationship with the company only. Not with society-at-large. And as such they cannot be held responsible for the state of wider society. They are solely responsible for their obligations to the company... and that's a purely voluntary relationship.

So if they feel its imbalanced or its being abused, they have every right to withhold involvement. And the state of wider society is not relevant, because they do not hold responsibility for it.

I’d say most presidents, Democrat or Republican, would have done the same.

Well that's certainly true. Most Presidents would probably have done even worse.

 

[tippy2k2]

The rail workers that were holding out wanted twice as many paid suck days as most of the country. That’s not just some. The rail workers were able to do away with being penalized for calling in sick. Most employees n America will get dinged in one way or another for calling in sick.

A strike would have risked economic collapse, people starving from lack of food deliveries, jacked up power and food costs (for what little was on the shelf), a lack of clean drinking water and necessary medicines. Biden stepped in to protect the majority of the country. I’d say most presidents, Democrat or Republican, would have done the same.

Also, Biden has said he will continue to strive for paid sick leave for rail workers. You can choose not to believe him all you want. You can assume he is outright lying. But your assumptions do not make it reality and if is too early to say that he will never do anything to further help the rail workers.

Biden isn’t even the first President to do something like this either. It has happened in the past.

"Everybody else in the country gets the shaft so they should too" is not the argument you think it is...

Like I said above, if losing the rail workers is that big of a deal, sounds like they're pretty fucking important and they should probably give them what they want

And yes, Joe "I stand with the workers but immediately undercut their ability to stand up for themselves because the corporations would only make a ton of money instead of a fuckton of money" Biden is not someone I trust. You telling me that Democrats and Republicans are both on the side of corporations and not the people is not a point in Biden's favor.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Or, for a more corporatist solution, give it to railway companies to hire more people so they can afford to give people time off.

And the railway companies would spend it on executive bonuses all-round and stick to working the people they've got to death. It's how corporate welfare always turns out these days.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Like I said above, if losing the rail workers is that big of a deal, sounds like they're pretty fucking important and they should probably give them what they want

Or at least negotiate in good faith.

 

[Dreiko]

And the railway companies would spend it on executive bonuses all-round and stick to working the people they've got to death. It's how corporate welfare always turns out these days.

Yeah it'd have to be stipulated how the money has to be spent or it'll go to stock buybacks or what have you.


All I know is that gun manufacturers manage to give guns to a dozen evil governments across the world without failure, and someone has to be making those guns, so it is possible for a corporation to do something beyond just use money on paying the executives.

 

[tippy2k2]

Yeah it'd have to be stipulated how the money has to be spent or it'll go to stock buybacks or what have you.


All I know is that gun manufacturers manage to give guns to a dozen evil governments across the world without failure, and someone has to be making those guns, so it is possible for a corporation to do something beyond just use money on paying the executives.

If it's anything like the airlines, they'll use it to keep their employees for the minimum they're forced to per the stipulation before firing everyone anyway and now oh shucks oh darn we have nothing else to use this money on except stock buybacks, what a shame...

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Yeah it'd have to be stipulated how the money has to be spent or it'll go to stock buybacks or what have you.

"YOU CAN'T HAVE THE GOVERNMENT DICTATING TO PRIVATE BUSINESSES!!!!ELEVENTY-TWELVE!!!!"

All I know is that gun manufacturers manage to give guns to a dozen evil governments across the world without failure, and someone has to be making those guns, so it is possible for a corporation to do something beyond just use money on paying the executives.

If you think *someone* isn't footing the bill for all that hardware I've got some bridges you can buy.

 

[Silvanus]

Yeah it'd have to be stipulated how the money has to be spent or it'll go to stock buybacks or what have you.

The thing is, these companies already have much, much more than enough to cater for sick days and higher pay. If the government funnels them more money that gets ringfenced for it, that's effectively just the government paying to provide something the company should already be providing... which is functionally identical to welfare for people already in work, just with an extra step. And then the companies will even further reduce their own investment because they figure the government will just pick up the slack.

The solution would be to tie executive pay to worker pay.

...well, I mean the actual solution is worker ownership, but failing that.

All I know is that gun manufacturers manage to give guns to a dozen evil governments across the world without failure, and someone has to be making those guns, so it is possible for a corporation to do something beyond just use money on paying the executives.

Oh, they're very much capable of spending if they believe it'll lead to an increase in revenue. They're just not so hot on spending for other reasons, like providing a passable service or reasonable working conditions.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Let's just go back to feudalism: It's your Count that votes!

I will say, at least that would be more straightforward and transparent. "Now I KNOW I have no say in the government! Yeah!"

 

[Dreiko]

"YOU CAN'T HAVE THE GOVERNMENT DICTATING TO PRIVATE BUSINESSES!!!!ELEVENTY-TWELVE!!!!"




If you think *someone* isn't footing the bill for all that hardware I've got some bridges you can buy.

It's more like a conditional loan, you're not entitled to government money. You can only get it if you agree to the terms and you're free to disagree. Though the government already dictates things to businesses otherwise every river would be aflame by now.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Nah, we just know how this goes: see, we can only prove it if it gets caught and reversed, where you then say "but it got caught so who cares", and if we go with a case where it doesn't get reversed, you say "but that doesn't prove they did it, so who cares?"

I mean, for fuck's sake, you're already conflating nationwide protests against police brutality who themselves were victims of police brutality with storming a major government building trying to overturn a legitimately lost political election, there's no difference between being wildly ignorant and just not operating on good faith here. Sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from malice.

Again, surely if the US is/was on the verge of fascism, there's some proof of it...

Except they already tried to get thousands of votes thrown out. Their sincerity in wishing to overturn election results is not really in question, whether or not they believe the election was actually 'stolen'.

Look, this kind of complacency is how democracies undermine themselves. Democracies the world over, for many decades, have thought themselves immune to authoritarianism, only to slide back into it as a result of complacency and empowering those who would break down the democratic structures.



I haven't even mentioned fascism.

But since you ask, yes, I can point to examples: three counties in Pennsylvania excluded thousands of votes (from Democratic-heavy areas) because the outer envelope lacked a date, even if the ballots were received before election day. The Penn. Supreme Court supported them. It was challenged, and then the SCOTUS vacated the decision because the election had already passed. So thousands of ballots ended up not being reflected in the count.

They pursued similar suits in several other swing states, targeting Democrat-leaning areas.

The amount of Rs that sincerely wanted to overturn the election, you can count on one hand. And I doubt any of them outside of possibly Trump wanted to do it in an unlawful manner. The whole election being stolen is just one of the many things to keep the public's eye off actually important issues.

You mean voters didn't follow simple voting instructions and the law was followed?

Citations, quotes, evidence?

US Supreme Court hears case to determine authority over elections

Republican politicians advance theory that could shift power away from courts in determining election rules and maps.

www.aljazeera.com

Democrats control information, how is that not super fucking obvious?

Fuck, we're about two months away from just not voting for president anymore

How so? Democrats just tend to complain about legislation which makes it harder to vote. Which seems .... pro democracy.
And the polls suggesting a vast majority of republicans think the 2020 elections were rigged show you are wrong. The lies about stolen elections have persuaded millions of Americans.



The BLM protests are totally unrelated. They weren't about overturning a government and invalidating elections.



Because there are two different shades of grey, the choice isn't great but at least you have a choice.

And the lies told everyday on mainstream news don't persuade millions of Americans?

When did I say they were related? Just saying the BLM protests caused more actual harm but nobody here b!tches about that, do they?

That's the exact problem, people think they are only 2 choices, but you don't have to vote for either party. The Simpson's literally did this like 30 years ago and it's as true now as it was then.

 

[Kwak]

Democrats control information, how is that not super fucking obvious?

Because I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.