Biden is trying to lower gas prices now. The problem with Climate Change pushers.

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Terminal Blue

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4. Why was nuclear power not even considered as an option? It's exceptionally clean, and exceptionally safe (except when it isn't but that can be said for anything).
Firstly, without technical expertise and a loosening of safety regulations (which could potentially compromise the whole exceptionally safe thing) nuclear power plants are prohibitively expensive to build and maintain in many countries. Simply put, most western countries haven't built many nuclear reactors in the past few decades, and that means the infrastructure to do so efficiently, cheaply and quickly no longer exists. The problem with the "just switch to nuclear" argument is that energy policy kind of has to be decided a long time in advance. For the US in particular, that might not be a huge problem as the US has been exceptionally shit among developed nations at planning for phasing out fossil fuels. But then, the countries with a lot of expertise in building renewables are going to be a lot more willing to do business with the US than the countries with a lot of expertise in building nuclear plants.

And then there's the more general international and political problems with nuclear energy. The power plants themselves may not be dangerous to nearby civilians, but they are dangerous because they can produce substances which can be used as weapons. Not all reactors have that problem, but the technical knowledge required to build and maintain those reactors can still very easily be used for other purposes. Every single country which has developed nuclear weapons in spite of the non-proliferation treaty did so by piggybacking off a civilian nuclear energy program. There is a good argument for deliberately limiting the development of infrastructure and technical expertise related to nuclear energy.

Finally, many forms of nuclear fuel and waste are security risks, and need to be guarded and protected at least until they've decayed enough to not be dangerous and/or useful any more. Some types of fuel are also vulnerable to criticality or spontaneous ignition if not stored correctly, which again could potentially be dangerous. Disposing of nuclear material safely generally requires a long-term commitment to ensuring it doesn't end up in the environment or get stolen.

Solving the climate crisis, if that's even possible at this point before civilization as we know it collapses (I doubt it) is going to require an unprecedented level of international cooperation, and you could easily argue that all these problems could be overcome. I personally think nuclear energy would play a role in any future solution, but not in the sense of everyone deciding to build hundreds of nuclear plants. I think nuclear power will really help those countries which already have the requisite skill base and infrastructure, but it's not a universal solution. As the technology improves, it may be that new reactor designs will become small and safe enough that any country can build them at reasonable cost, and the fuel problem could potentially be solved by new recycling technologies, but right now it's not there.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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Speaking of pipelines what concerns me more immediately is the Canadian crude-containing Enbridge Line 5 running through the largest source of freshwater in the world. They’ve been lying there on the lakebed since Eisenhower was in office, neglected for decades until only recent efforts were made to add “support” structures. Unfortunately these structures elevate these aging, increasingly unstable lines into turbulent currents. The Straits of Mackinaw produce ten times that of Niagara Falls and is deemed by a U of M study as the worst possible place for a spill in the Great Lakes.

The funny thing is, the design of these supports was never even approved. The other kicker is they are only running through the most ecologically sensitive areas in U.S. waters as a shortcut for Canada’s benefit. Enbridge has a pretty shit track record of spills in the past, of which some have occurred from these lines themselves. A threat of impending shutdown was made earlier in the year, which they’ve been in defiance of. Apparently they’re planning construction of a new tunnel for the most vulnerable sections, but that might not commence until 2025 and a lot can happen between now and then when you have 540,000 barrels a day running through them.
 
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Baffle

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Secondly, the cost of a car is not just the initial outlay - it's also the maintenance and fuel costs. Electric cars will have lower fuel and (because of that complex combustion engine) lower maintenance. The lifetime cost of an electric car is not much different from petrol/diesel. You can buy a car on a finance deal with monthly payments and spread it out.

I also wonder whether car ownership is going to dive anyway. Companies like Uber and automated driving are pointing us at a world where you don't need to own a car. You just order one on an app when you need it and it takes you somewhere. People who need to do lots of driving may still prefer their own, but chances are many are likely to find rental or automated "taxi" cheaper and easier.
It seems like a tricky balance. On paper an electric car would be good for me as most of my miles are local, short trips (<20 miles, usually ~4). But I don't do enough of them to cover the price difference of an electric (only about 6K a year, as low as 2K or so during the pandemic); i.e. I don't use enough cheap electric fuel to cover the initial outlay difference.

As far as maintenance and repair is concerned, my understanding is that electrics are cheaper as long as the problems aren't battery-related. If they are, you're in for a long wait as it needs to be certified as fixed in some way due to fire risk (this is anecdotal though, from the only person I know who drives an electric) and a high bill (if you own the battery).

Personally I think we should just bring horses back.
 

Agema

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Personally I think we should just bring horses back.
Dude! Horses are expensive. It's a few thousand to buy a cheap horse, then you'd probably be spending hundreds a month just on horseshoes and feed (or rent, if a farmer is prepared to lend you field space), plus frequent veterinary bills, they're not practical to tie up for hours whilst you're at work and they don't go very fast (at least, not for long periods of time). Bicycles are better for personal transport in almost every respect.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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Dude! Horses are expensive. It's a few thousand to buy a cheap horse, then you'd probably be spending hundreds a month just on horseshoes and feed (or rent, if a farmer is prepared to lend you field space), plus frequent veterinary bills, they're not practical to tie up for hours whilst you're at work and they don't go very fast (at least, not for long periods of time). Bicycles are better for personal transport in almost every respect.
The sentiment is understandable, given it harkens back to simpler, more environmentally friendly times. But yeah, the industrial revolution and especially big tech that followed really put the kibosh on those days. The only way horses will ever be a mainstay again is if there’s a catastrophic event that eliminates well over half of modern civilization, infrastructure, etc. and somehow horses survive.
 

Kwak

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Agema

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Like ... horse-shaped?
I'm imaging something like a buggy with the horse's torso on a big hammock, with its back legs powering the pedals.
 

Seanchaidh

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Dude! Horses are expensive. It's a few thousand to buy a cheap horse, then you'd probably be spending hundreds a month just on horseshoes and feed (or rent, if a farmer is prepared to lend you field space), plus frequent veterinary bills, they're not practical to tie up for hours whilst you're at work and they don't go very fast (at least, not for long periods of time). Bicycles are better for personal transport in almost every respect.
Also, while horses are not as productive in this way as cows and other ruminants, they do release greenhouse gases.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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Sure, but charging an electric motorcycle is way faster than an electric car (due to the much smaller capacity), and in theory it would also be way easier to design an electric motorcycle with a swappable battery than it would be to do the same for an electric car.
 

AnxietyProne

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Coal and fossil fuels will forever be our energy. Anyone who says otherwise is a Communist. /s
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Sure, but charging an electric motorcycle is way faster than an electric car (due to the much smaller capacity), and in theory it would also be way easier to design an electric motorcycle with a swappable battery than it would be to do the same for an electric car.
Fun fact, it sort of already exists but only scooters so far


Footage of one in the wild

 

Dirty Hipsters

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Fun fact, it sort of already exists but only scooters so far


Footage of one in the wild

It also sort of already exists for electric bicycles. Electric motorcycle manufacturers just haven't bothered trying to implement hot-swappable batteries, and they really should.
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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It also sort of already exists for electric bicycles. Electric motorcycle manufacturers just haven't bothered trying to implement hot-swappable batteries, and they really should.
I remember years ago while I was still at Uni there was work on or ideas for something like that for cars but it never became a thing. I think it was electrical but it could have been hydrogen fuel cell canisters or something. Either way I know something swappable was being worked on for cars but for some reason never became a thing.