Big Question about Sex and Violence in Videogames
- Thread starter SidingWithTheEnemy
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What, did you need it to be longer?SidingWithTheEnemy said:
Sex is EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVIIIIIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!
How about with a larger font?
Sex Is... [HEADING=1]EEEEEEEEEEEEEVVVVVVVVVVIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!![/HEADING]
I hope that clarified things for you.
[sub]Ok, seriously, it's just because in our messed up society sex is an action that is inherently evil, and must be hidden from the poor innocent children. Murder and wanton destruction on the other hand are only considered evil if they're done for a bad purpose.[/sub]
[sub]I don't know for sure why that is, it's probably just left over cultural values from when everyone was an extreme fundamentalist (and I have no clue where they got those values from). It does seem to be getting better over time though.[/sub]
To be fair, sex in videogames tends to be a tad awkward, even in cutscenes. As opposed to the press button to kill and/or maim mechanics the industry has been perfecting.
And lets not forget all the glorious controversy it'll cause. Just think about FOX news' hilarious reaction, 3 months after the game's initial release.
And lets not forget all the glorious controversy it'll cause. Just think about FOX news' hilarious reaction, 3 months after the game's initial release.
Never felt comfortable with it. I'm honestly disgusted by the whole concept of sex. The foreplay, the act itself, the consequences, blah blah blah whatever. The fact that my mother slept with a different guy each week (We always lived in apartments with thin walls), there were literally kids getting caught having sex under the staircases, in the fields, in the bathrooms, whathaveyou in my high school, the general interest in the erotic that seems to border on obsession most of the time...SidingWithTheEnemy said:
tl;dr, my personal experiences have made me biased against the inclusion of sex, and to a lesser extent, romance in anything that doesn't specifically call for it. And even then.
Edit: I realized that I didn't acknowledge your question. Real life =/= video games and visa versa. What's fun in a video game isn't necessarily fun in real life. (Do you think that people who play Farmville religiously would like to run a farm?)
Thank you very much, Your point is absolutely f*cking clarified!Kopikatsu said:
You have my sincere sympathies, If I were you mass murdering would be even more fun.
As you piqued my interest I wonder how do you feel about those ridiculously underdressed female characters in those games you play, if you don't mind me asking? Do you avoid games featuring them? Do you mind them at all? Do you like their appearance? Or Do you try to murder them as well (if that is possible in that game)
Well games already use sex in storylines. Romantic relationships are quite common in games. A few come right out and say you had some, but most just imply it and it has the same affect. There's no real need to show they had sex directly, so why add that in and make the game M/AO, limiting your audience?
As for interaction...well most people don't find that to be fun. There's been porn games, if that's what you're looking for, or a little mini-game like in God of War, but that tends to be more awkward than add anything to the game. Sex is only really fun if you're actually having it. Just sitting there watching is awkward unless you're masturbating to it, but then why do you want that in your videogame? Get your sex from porn or girlfriend like a normal person.
I also don't completely agree with everyone saying sex is more taboo than violence. It's simply more private. People don't frown on you for having sex usually. The act of sex isn't taboo, just talking about it is. Sex is just a very intimate act, people don't want to hear something that private. People say yeah sure, tap that, just do it behind closed doors.
As for people saying we can't even hint at sex, you need to pay more attention. Look at how many of your games say "sexual themes" or "suggestive themes" on the back. A lot of them hint at it. That or I'm playing obscure games with titles like Dragon Age and Persona /sarcasm.
As for interaction...well most people don't find that to be fun. There's been porn games, if that's what you're looking for, or a little mini-game like in God of War, but that tends to be more awkward than add anything to the game. Sex is only really fun if you're actually having it. Just sitting there watching is awkward unless you're masturbating to it, but then why do you want that in your videogame? Get your sex from porn or girlfriend like a normal person.
I also don't completely agree with everyone saying sex is more taboo than violence. It's simply more private. People don't frown on you for having sex usually. The act of sex isn't taboo, just talking about it is. Sex is just a very intimate act, people don't want to hear something that private. People say yeah sure, tap that, just do it behind closed doors.
As for people saying we can't even hint at sex, you need to pay more attention. Look at how many of your games say "sexual themes" or "suggestive themes" on the back. A lot of them hint at it. That or I'm playing obscure games with titles like Dragon Age and Persona /sarcasm.
I don't pay them any mind, really. They're just...there. It does become slightly immersion breaking when a metal g-string has a higher defense rating than a full set of plate mail, but that's a problem with arbitrary stats in RPGs, not any fault of the clothing itself.SidingWithTheEnemy said:
Don't get me wrong though, I'm not a mass murdering psychopath in video games. Just saying that, as far as video games go, murdering scores of soldiers is infinitely more fun and engaging than nailing a few whores for shits n' giggles. The God of War series has a few sex mini-games, and they were, honestly, boring. It's more fun to go out and tear some monster's head off than rotating an analog stick a couple of times.
Edit: I'm not particularly sure why people say that sex is taboo. It very obviously isn't. I've stopped watching live action movies entirely because there are guaranteed to be 1-3 sex scenes per movies, and they only have ~90 minutes to tell their story. It's unwanted, unneeded filler that doesn't serve any point but to eat up time. If you want to watch people doing the horizontal monster mash, then...porn is a multi-billion dollar industry, you know.
Hell, most BOOKS have a sex scene or two in them nowadays. Why? What purpose does it serve?
I've been wondering the same thing for ages but less for computer games and more about cinema.
There's a huge difference between European and North American movies and their emphasis on action and sex?
But anyway I think it does actually makes sense for games - No matter in which part of the world they are being developed - that they will rely more on violence and action themes rather than sexual ones simply because violence and action is the easiest material to work into a coherent interactive mechanic.
There's a huge difference between European and North American movies and their emphasis on action and sex?
But anyway I think it does actually makes sense for games - No matter in which part of the world they are being developed - that they will rely more on violence and action themes rather than sexual ones simply because violence and action is the easiest material to work into a coherent interactive mechanic.
I actually think its for a completely different reason. Stories in games, like most media, is driven by conflict. Violence is the simplest form of conflict, whereas relationship conflict is one of the most complicated. Occasionally games, like Mass Effect, will use relationships to add to the story, but they're only interesting when there is conflict to be resolved.
The biggest reason sex isn't in video games is because its not a conflict resolution, its just something that happens in a relationship, which is more appropriate to say, a simulator, than it is to most games.
The biggest reason sex isn't in video games is because its not a conflict resolution, its just something that happens in a relationship, which is more appropriate to say, a simulator, than it is to most games.
Okay, here's the issue as I see it. The games industry is still driven by America to a large extent. America is a post-christian nation with a history of conservatism. Europe, you guys have been more open for a while...America still isn't.
The values that have driven this attitude toward Sex, Violence, and Language in media are a result of the largely christian history of the nation.
In the bible, it is admonished to control your tongue (words/swearing), to not engage in oppressive violence, or violence for the wrong reason (I would contend Jesus calls christians to pacifism), and to abstain from sexuality until marriage.
Now, why do we as a culture shun sexuality as opposed to violence? And why are we more likely to allow our children to see Lord of the Rings over a similarly rated PG-13 movie with language and "dirty joking" or the occasional breast? I believe it's actually some strange, subconscious equation that we do, which takes the Desirability, Ease of Access, Consequences, and other factors into account.
Violence, first of all, is not necessarily something that I would call easily accessible. Sure, you could pick up a rock and try to brain someone on the side of the road for no reason, but there is no motive, no reason to do it, and the consequences are heavy. Also, children and people do not usually behold violence of this type. Usually we are taught that violence is something to be used for good and not evil, and that there is a difference between murder, selfdefense, and war.
Desirability is low (who needs to kill anyone).
Ease of Access is moderate.
Consequences are high.
Language is another matter. There are no real consequences (besides a mouthful of soap), it isn't necessarily desirable or undesirable, but it's easily accessible. So parents find the action undesirable and easily reproduced. They make it a goal to not let their kids hear swearing.
Desirability is variable.
Ease of Access is high.
Consequences are minimal.
Now sex is something different. In America, shaped by christian values for so many years, sex is viewed as something done in marriage. It is viewed as proper in such a context, and while these views have been weakening for years, we still have many conservative people who would rather not be exposed to sex. Sexuality is extremely accessible. Not necessarily intercourse, but thoughts, porn, and "other outlets" (that parents and others find undesirable).
Sex is also viewed as having greater consequences than most secular people realize. In the bible it is mentioned that a man and woman experience a connection so deep and intimate, they are said to be "one flesh," or to become one. Also, fornication is looked at negatively in the bible, but more importantly, basically since all of history ever. But after these possibly perceived consequences(I've heard lots of regret from people with multiple sexual partners before, so maybe there's some validity) come the real consequences. Pregnancy, STIs, and social stigmas are all a part of the deal, and parents especially want to shield their children from them.
Desirability is high (feels good right).
Ease of Access is high(ish, depending on values).
Consequences are (potentially) high.
That is why I feel there is a divide between sex and violence in media representations (with a nod to language). Violence can be considered good by the old crowd. Sex (outside certain parameters) is seen as bad in all but one circumstance. The old crowd is large, and made up of middle aged americans with kids and jobs who have taken some of their parents values.
They have the money.
The next generation will likely look much different, so don't bemoan your circumstances excapists! Make the world what you want it to be!
The values that have driven this attitude toward Sex, Violence, and Language in media are a result of the largely christian history of the nation.
In the bible, it is admonished to control your tongue (words/swearing), to not engage in oppressive violence, or violence for the wrong reason (I would contend Jesus calls christians to pacifism), and to abstain from sexuality until marriage.
Now, why do we as a culture shun sexuality as opposed to violence? And why are we more likely to allow our children to see Lord of the Rings over a similarly rated PG-13 movie with language and "dirty joking" or the occasional breast? I believe it's actually some strange, subconscious equation that we do, which takes the Desirability, Ease of Access, Consequences, and other factors into account.
Violence, first of all, is not necessarily something that I would call easily accessible. Sure, you could pick up a rock and try to brain someone on the side of the road for no reason, but there is no motive, no reason to do it, and the consequences are heavy. Also, children and people do not usually behold violence of this type. Usually we are taught that violence is something to be used for good and not evil, and that there is a difference between murder, selfdefense, and war.
Desirability is low (who needs to kill anyone).
Ease of Access is moderate.
Consequences are high.
Language is another matter. There are no real consequences (besides a mouthful of soap), it isn't necessarily desirable or undesirable, but it's easily accessible. So parents find the action undesirable and easily reproduced. They make it a goal to not let their kids hear swearing.
Desirability is variable.
Ease of Access is high.
Consequences are minimal.
Now sex is something different. In America, shaped by christian values for so many years, sex is viewed as something done in marriage. It is viewed as proper in such a context, and while these views have been weakening for years, we still have many conservative people who would rather not be exposed to sex. Sexuality is extremely accessible. Not necessarily intercourse, but thoughts, porn, and "other outlets" (that parents and others find undesirable).
Sex is also viewed as having greater consequences than most secular people realize. In the bible it is mentioned that a man and woman experience a connection so deep and intimate, they are said to be "one flesh," or to become one. Also, fornication is looked at negatively in the bible, but more importantly, basically since all of history ever. But after these possibly perceived consequences(I've heard lots of regret from people with multiple sexual partners before, so maybe there's some validity) come the real consequences. Pregnancy, STIs, and social stigmas are all a part of the deal, and parents especially want to shield their children from them.
Desirability is high (feels good right).
Ease of Access is high(ish, depending on values).
Consequences are (potentially) high.
That is why I feel there is a divide between sex and violence in media representations (with a nod to language). Violence can be considered good by the old crowd. Sex (outside certain parameters) is seen as bad in all but one circumstance. The old crowd is large, and made up of middle aged americans with kids and jobs who have taken some of their parents values.
They have the money.
The next generation will likely look much different, so don't bemoan your circumstances excapists! Make the world what you want it to be!
Speaking of other games that aren't afraid of sex...wait...are all the games I'm about to come up with rockstar...yesTestECull said:
Well, Red Dead Redemption has a guy who fucks a girl over a table
GTA IV and all the other GTA's...do I even have to say anything.
L.A noire had discussion of rape and loads of nudity.
I don't know, but I'm pretty sure Max Payne has some sex in.
Mass Effect had brief off screen sex in.
Well other than Mass Effect, Rockstar clearly isn't afraid of sex...we're 1 step further I guess.
Well, for starters, sex would make a very boring videogame, but I do agree that there is no good reason why you can't have it on the side. I think the main reason for not having sex in games but having lots of violence, is the American market. While it varies whether or not it's the most important one, it is consequently a big selling place, and since America tends to be very prudish, and they would be very hypocrite if they give a thumbs down for violence, those two are made in ways that the Americans like. Remember what a big controvery it was in Europe when people found out about the Hot Coffee mod in San Andreas? No, of course not, because it was released in America first, Rockstar deleted the controversial content, where upon a Dutch guy went through the files of the game and made it playable again.
Mostly because America was originally settled by puritans who believed that sex was evil, but that stoning was the best way to deal with... well, people who enjoyed sex.SidingWithTheEnemy said:
That attitude - that sex is bad, but violence is okay, even good - still prevails today.
America is the biggest country in the video game industry. They have control over the content, and their place in the industry means that even other countries have to cater to American tastes to risk failing games.
Indigo Prophesy and Heavy Rain are games I love and truly enjoyed. They both contain sex scenes, although Indigo Prophesy's were edited to make them less risque for the American sensibility.
Catherine is one of the most daring games in years, and I loved every second of it, occasional frustrations and all.
These games are, sadly, the exception in the current market.
Don't get me wrong - I love me some violence too. But I prefer a balance - sex and violence in equal measure.
Plus, in games where you are allowed lots of "freedom" - like Fallout 3 or Deus Ex: HR - I find myself chafing at the restrictions because I want to play a character that's too racy for the game to actually accommodate.
Why can't I PLAY as the whore with the heart of gold?
Or, better yet, the whore with the mind like a steel trap and a knack for picking locks and slitting throats?
Why can't I seduce bosses instead of shooting them?
**sigh**
Good points!
Kudos to thosetwo: Edit: Three
and
Just to make it clear once more:
I'm feeling disturbed by half naked girl NPCs where I can't even have the slightest in game reaction.
Its not that I want a Sex-Minigame or something and it's not that I dislike those scarcely clothes ladies - mind you, but that's just one half of it delivered on a silver platter while the other half is the forbidden by whatsoever moral system Blablubb meh and all the stuff like S1leNt RIP pointed out.
Imagine this:
Female Comander Shepard lands on Omegasomething and while talking to some random NPC male they start staring at her "stonking great tits". You get a Renegade / Paragorn option to respond flitatoursly or just shooting them in the balls or something.
THAT is what I demand and -come on guys - especially for us that would be seriously funny. And that is completely lacking. BUT the female body of Miss Shepard has some decent curves (if you don't mess up character creation)
Male Shepard? He could have some groupie like shy giggling crewladies which he can either scold in his military traditon.
or he could just invite them all over having fun, messing with them, yeah for you kinky guys even having a threesome or something. I don't even care...
That's all the sort of interaction there really has to be to make this game a true experience...
Tell me what you think about that idea, is it so bad? Would be so morally infringingly devastating?
Off Topic: A female Shepard that at some point is deliberately is reduced to a sex object with the appropriate moral choice system would be the first female Character ever I would gladly play.
Kudos to those
Hell Yeah!!! Signed!Princess Rose said:
and
andS1leNt RIP said:
Now, that's excatly it!spartan231490 said:
Just to make it clear once more:
I'm feeling disturbed by half naked girl NPCs where I can't even have the slightest in game reaction.
Its not that I want a Sex-Minigame or something and it's not that I dislike those scarcely clothes ladies - mind you, but that's just one half of it delivered on a silver platter while the other half is the forbidden by whatsoever moral system Blablubb meh and all the stuff like S1leNt RIP pointed out.
Imagine this:
Female Comander Shepard lands on Omegasomething and while talking to some random NPC male they start staring at her "stonking great tits". You get a Renegade / Paragorn option to respond flitatoursly or just shooting them in the balls or something.
THAT is what I demand and -come on guys - especially for us that would be seriously funny. And that is completely lacking. BUT the female body of Miss Shepard has some decent curves (if you don't mess up character creation)
Male Shepard? He could have some groupie like shy giggling crewladies which he can either scold in his military traditon.
- Sgt. Hartman Style -
That's all the sort of interaction there really has to be to make this game a true experience...
Tell me what you think about that idea, is it so bad? Would be so morally infringingly devastating?
Off Topic: A female Shepard that at some point is deliberately is reduced to a sex object with the appropriate moral choice system would be the first female Character ever I would gladly play.