Bioshock and Child Murder

[Amnestic]

So I made a couple of posts in the Skyrim Child Killing Mod [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.325418-Skyrim-Child-Killing-Mod?page=1] thread about Bioshock, but no one really tackled it so I thought I'd make a thread of its own.

For those not in 'the know' about it, players in Bioshock are at intervals given the choice between 'Harvesting' (killing) or 'Saving' (...saving) Little Sisters [http://images.wikia.com/bioshock/images/2/2c/BS2LittleSister.jpg]. Normally this choice is entirely optional - except for once, I believe. When you first encounter the mechanic, you are forced by the game to make this choice: Kill a little girl, or let her go.

From a balance perspective, the ADAM disparity between the two is largely negligible by the endgame - less than 300 according to the Bioshock wikia. That means very little on the whole. Even with the ~300 fewer ADAM my last playthrough had me wasting ADAM on things I never used.

Now anyone who knows me will know I do my research. And by 'research', I of course mean 'look at google for five minutes'. So I did so. You know what I found? Very little. A Joystiq article about the child murder was top of the list, but it was reporting on a The Patriot Ledger article which doesn't even seem to exist anymore.

Very little hey-ho was made about Bioshock from what I can tell. The vast majority of controversy surrounding it comes from gamers and objections to its (now removed) DRM. Medal of Honor's 'Taliban', Modern Warfare 2's 'No Russian', Mass Effect's 'Sex Scene'...all recieved far greater attention from the press than this.

So what's the bottom line? Well mostly that "It's possible to have child murder in a game without getting an AO rating", and that it's weird that so many people (looking at the Skyrim thread once more) are object so...vigorously when it's already been in a game which many people were all too ready to call their GOTY.

Do you think Bioshock should have had more controversy for its child murder? Do you think it was right for the developers to include it in the first place? For those of you in the Skyrim thread who jumped over here: Did you have the same opinion on the mod as you did Bioshock? If not, why?

 

[Caedus]

1. Bioshock takes place in a fucked up city where everyone is crazy and fights for survival.

2. If I remember correctly, the Little Sisters are abominations. They cannot die and so on.

Child murder is not that important if the context is so well-written and feels so threatening that killing children is not that horrible. If you can call them children. Remember what Atlas said when you witness your first Little Sister harvesting some poor shmuck? They may look like little girls, but they are monsters.

[Edit] Yay! 42 posts! \o/

 

[arc101]

]

[Edit] Yay! 42 posts! \o/

Always a good day

OT: I think it was the fact it's almost expected, in Bioshock, that you're a douche and you'll do almost anything to get ADAM. Also the horror here is it a user mod and not part of the plot. It implies someone wants to kill children, not has to.

 

[The_Blue_Rider]

I dont think the whole Harvest/Save thing was done very well, I feel it really should have been reflected in the gameplay, if Jack kept harvesting them to survive, for ADAM to splice himself up with, by the end of the game he would have been incredibly powerful, but he would be a monster himself. I feel they should have made it so that if you save the little sisters you wouldnt have access to a lot of the plasmids, to drive home the point that the good path isnt easy.

Also I'm not sure why its only got an M rating, probably because the little sisters dont seem like little girls anymore, theyre horrible twisted creations of a madman (Suchong im looking at you)

 

[ChupathingyX]

It implies someone wants to kill children, not has to.

Just because someone wants to do something in a game, doesn't mean they'll do it in real life.

 

[arc101]

It implies someone wants to kill children, not has to.

Just because someone wants to do something in a game, doesn't mean they'll do it in real life.

It's the implication. This alone will cause awkward feelings toward such a development.

I agree with you totally though, just because the want to in a game, doesn't mean they will in real life. In the majority, and its that little glimmer of a possibility of a chance that creep people out

 

[Zhukov]

Well, part of it was that it was covered up. You don't actually see the act of killing take place.

I read in an interview that originally the harvesting animation was going to show Jack shoving his arm down the kid's throat and pulling out the adam slug. Apparently the game's publishers shot that idea in the head real fast.

 

[mad825]

Sadly, it's mainly the popular games that gets the fire for controversy. Given that many gamers cannot tell where an idea orginated I don't really expect new causal gamers to do any better.

For example, many people look at Bioshock for introducing audio tapes where System shock 2 and (an imporved version) Doom 3 were more or less the first.

 

[Casual Shinji]

First of all the child murder in Bioshock is never directly shown. If you choose to harvest a little sister the screen fades and reveals somekind of bug or something (I don't exactly know, I haven't played this game in ages). If it actually showed a first-person perspective of you ripping the girls head off, reaching down her decapitated torso and pulling out the Adam in a fountain of blood and guts the shitstorm would most likely have been grand.

Secondly, if it's part of the story I have no real issue with it (depending on the story ofcourse). But the fact is that infanticide is a touchy subject in games and not entirely for the wrong reasons.

 

[KiloFox]

i think the controversy stems mainly from the attention BROUGHT upon it... Modern Warfare created an option to skip their "controversial content" and Mass Effect made a selling point on it. and Bethesda talked openly about those producing the mod. whereas i've heard little if not NOTHING about the choice in Bioshock (which i played, and for the record saved all for the "true" ending in case i wanted to play the second. otherwise i would've harvested) so that leads me to believe that the actual controversy stems from the hype generated around it. if the companies hadn't talked about it. i bet we would've barely noticed.

 

[Vegosiux]

Modern Warfare created an option to skip their "controversial content" and Mass Effect made a selling point on it.

Wait what? Controversial content in ME?....uh....where?

 

[The_Blue_Rider]

Well, part of it was that it was covered up. You don't actually see the act of killing take place.

I read in an interview that originally the harvesting animation was going to show Jack shoving his arm down the kid's throat and pulling out the adam slug. Apparently the game's publishers shot that idea in the head real fast.

I was about to say this was the most disgusting thing ive ever read, and then i read this ..

First of all the child murder in Bioshock is never directly shown. If you choose to harvest a little sister the screen fades and reveals somekind of bug or something (I don't exactly know, I haven't played this game in ages). If it actually showed a first-person perspective of you ripping the girls head off, reaching down her decapitated torso and pulling out the Adam in a fountain of blood and guts the shitstorm would most likely have been grand.

Secondly, if it's part of the story I have no real issue with it (depending on the story ofcourse). But the fact is that infanticide is a touchy subject in games and not entirely for the wrong reasons.

Thanks guys, Its not like i wanted to eat for the next couple days or anything :L

 

[Frostbyte666]

Excellent point if people are screaming in outrage about a user created mod that gives a choice on the killing (or tragic death) of kids or not for skyrim but absolutely fail in picking up on the developer of bioshock forcing a choice with sparing/killing an innocent girl who was put through hideous experiments then I can't help but feel that they are a couple of years too late to complain about the issue.

 

[KiloFox]

Modern Warfare created an option to skip their "controversial content" and Mass Effect made a selling point on it.

Wait what? Controversial content in ME?....uh....where?

(from first post): Mass Effect's 'Sex Scene'
i myself would hardly call it controversial content. but i'm not the best judge of that... i HAVE heard it described as a little controversial though which just astounds me...


1:36 efeepo <---Captcha... mind telling me WTF an efeepo is? is he like C-3P0's brother or something?

 

[Vegosiux]

i myself would hardly call it controversial content. but i'm not the best judge of that... i HAVE heard it described as a little controversial though which just astounds me...

That's what I mean. People who haven't actually played the part should kindly shut up and stop making up things. As for the child killing mod in Bioshock? As uncomfortable as it is, child murder happens. Children are sometimes victims of murder in this world.

I may catch a lot of fire for this, but I never understood why the lives of kids, women and elderly people should be more important and "precious" than the life of an adult male.

 

[Slaanesh]

Child murder is not that important if the context is so well-written and feels so threatening that killing children is not that horrible. If you can call them children. Remember what Atlas said when you witness your first Little Sister harvesting some poor shmuck? They may look like little girls, but they are monsters.

Remember what you find out about Atlas?

Spoiler

He is actually Frank Fontaine, Andre Ryan's rival, the guy who pushed for the little sisters' creation, the guy who brainwashed you, lied to you and made you kill your own father, and in the end tried to kill you. What I'm trying to say is, when a guy like this tries to call naive little girls monsters, you really shouldn't accept it as fact.

Also, when you save the Little Sisters, they become ordinary girls who, if you have the good ending, grow up to live happy lives. So they are not "monsters" as "Atlas' has said.

 

[soldier9501]

First of all the child murder in Bioshock is never directly shown.

This. You grab the child, the screen fades to black, then fades back in and you have some sort of slug in your hand.

If you chose to believe you murdered that child, that's all on you.

 

[KiloFox]

i myself would hardly call it controversial content. but i'm not the best judge of that... i HAVE heard it described as a little controversial though which just astounds me...

That's what I mean. People who haven't actually played the part should kindly shut up and stop making up things. As for the child killing mod in Bioshock? As uncomfortable as it is, child murder happens. Children are sometimes victims of murder in this world.

I may catch a lot of fire for this, but I never understood why the lives of kids, women and elderly people should be more important and "precious" than the life of an adult male.

well i can logically explain the children and kids ones... but the elderly still baffles me.. i guess that'd be a "respect our elders" type of BS... but children are "the future" though if that's true i FEAR for the future... and women bear more children ensuring survival of the species... essentially the same reason hunters are discouraged from killing doe (female deer) and mostly kill buck (male deer) it's not JUST because of the antlers, but because it only TAKES 1 male... wereas only 1 female isn't as stable... though honestly with the population how it is... i think we can call that point moot as well...

i have yet to actually PLAY skyrim, but i played Fallout 3 which also had invincible kids, and i must say i was VERY annoyed with their invincibility.... if i killed someone i could annihilate all adult witnesses, but the kids would run like headless chickens telling everyone they saw... mostly i wanted to shut the bastard up, but i also didn't want MORE enemy fire coming my way... it's even worse when the kids pack weapons like in Lamplight... so i can't hurt them but they can kill me? SO not fair... i foresee many of the same issues occurring in my gameplay in Skyrim once i get around to it... not to mention that it's a little disheartening to see the terrified kids cowering in the town i just destroyed... unable to die and nothing left to do but cry over their dead family's corpses. then run out of food and resort to eating their family and friends to survive... then withering away altogether from eventual starvation.... y'know what? leave the buggers invincible... the torture of having them live is SO much more satisfying ^^

EDIT: before someone bugs me on it... if you can't tell, those last few lines are literally DRIPPING with sarcasm...

 

[JoJo]

I may catch a lot of fire for this, but I never understood why the lives of kids, women and elderly people should be more important and "precious" than the life of an adult male.

The children one is because it's an instintive feeling that generally arises if you become a parent or spend a significant amount of time as an adult caring for a child, most people become very protective of not only that particular child but all children in general and so find the concept of any child being killed or injured particularly upsetting. I believe TvTropes refers to it as "adult fear". It's also the reason that child-murderers and rapists often get attacked in prison by other prisoners who are otherwise amoral and may well be convicted of violent crimes against adults. As for females and eldery, that's probably more about the moral disgust of attacking a weaker person that people feel, in men I'd guess that's down to us being instintively protective of the weak (most of us at-least), I can't speak for women since I'm not one myself ;-)