Bioware allows the release of "The Final Hours of Mass Effect 3" a tell all app for $2.99 WTF?!

[boag]

So here's what I'm curious about - are all the hints at indoctrination supposed to be there, or are they an artifact of the design process?

Also, here's how to make indoctrination work with the dialogue mechanics: have auto-dialogue, with interrupts that give Shep precious seconds of free will and allow the player to make dialogue choices for a short time. How was this hard to implement?

They just admitted that part of the last ending sequence was cut, a sequence where reapers control Shep.

Thats a pretty defacto yes on the Indoctrination theory being right.

 

[Kahunaburger]

So here's what I'm curious about - are all the hints at indoctrination supposed to be there, or are they an artifact of the design process?

Also, here's how to make indoctrination work with the dialogue mechanics: have auto-dialogue, with interrupts that give Shep precious seconds of free will and allow the player to make dialogue choices for a short time. How was this hard to implement?

They just admitted that part of the last ending sequence was cut, a sequence where reapers control Shep.

Thats a pretty defacto yes on the Indoctrination theory being right.

It's a pretty conclusive yes that at some stage in the design process the indoctrination theory was right. And we can definitely all agree that there are hints toward indoctrination elsewhere in the script. But to me it's a question like "is Deckard a replicant?" (Not, of course, to imply that Mass Effect is in Bladerunner's league as a story.) Different cuts point to different answers to this question. From this perspective, I'm curious about two things:

A) Did the devs intend the game to hint that Shepard was indoctrinated in the final released game?

B) If so, why didn't they do anything interesting with it?

 

[Irridium]

Casey on the End Boss
We had the final fight with the Illusive man in the game, but it just felt very Video Gamey. It didnt fit in with the themes. And really, is there a point of the end boss if only for the sake of an end boss?

Didn't stop 'em from doing the human reaper boss.

I'm glad they didn't turn TIM into a boss. Last thing that bastard needed was to waste my time more. I already spent a full damn game with him telling you what to do. The most he should get is him talking, and a renegade interrupt that lets you shoot him in the head.

Removing your ability to question the god-child is crap though. Remember Vigil, in ME1? They could have cut that down to the essentials, but then it wouldn't have been as big as it was. After talking to him, you feel enlightened, you learned things. The god-child scene looks like it lacks that, which is a damn shame.

 

[boag]

So here's what I'm curious about - are all the hints at indoctrination supposed to be there, or are they an artifact of the design process?

Also, here's how to make indoctrination work with the dialogue mechanics: have auto-dialogue, with interrupts that give Shep precious seconds of free will and allow the player to make dialogue choices for a short time. How was this hard to implement?

They just admitted that part of the last ending sequence was cut, a sequence where reapers control Shep.

Thats a pretty defacto yes on the Indoctrination theory being right.

It's a pretty conclusive yes that at some stage in the design process the indoctrination theory was right. And we can definitely all agree that there are hints toward indoctrination elsewhere in the script. But to me it's a question like "is Deckard a replicant?" (Not, of course, to imply that Mass Effect is in Bladerunner's league as a story.) Different cuts point to different answers to this question. From this perspective, I'm curious about two things:

A) Did the devs intend the game to hint that Shepard was indoctrinated in the final released game?

B) If so, why didn't they do anything interesting with it?

Possibly it was intended from the Beggining, unknown why some shit would have to get cut, but according to those opening statements they cut a lot of stuff out.

Was it because of the Leaks?

Its uncertain and I dont give a shit anymore, Giving me this tiny little tidbit of info to finish up the picture makes it good in my eyes.

 

[lordtec]

4. YES. THAT IS THE POINT OF AN END BOSS. TO BE AN END BOSS.
It was The Illusive Man. Every single person playing the games wanted the glory of taking that know-it-all terrorist down. It could have been so amazing. You could have made him a powerfully engineered biotic. But no, instead we fight SPACE NINJA LACKEY who was introduced OVER HALFWAY THROUGH THE FINAL GAME.

It was pathetically obvious that you wanted me to hate him, but seriously I had no motivation. "Oh, yeah, he got in my way, what a dick." But who sent him to get in my way? THE ILLUSIVE MAN.

They probably think everybody has read the books He had a big role in Mass Effect: Retribution

I did actually hate that guy when he got in mij way, but that might have been because I did read the book and hate every character that was part of Cerberus. (plus he doesn't play fair)

OT: I thought something like this might happen, I only didn't think they would charge money for it -_-

But I'm beginning to make peace with the end. If I play the games again (that is a big if because that ending ruined all three games for me) I will play until Harbringer comes down, Then I'll just think that we lost and Shepard was killed by the beams. Atleast that way I have closure, everybody dies. We lose.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Redact everything I have ever said about ME3's ending. It is genius, pure genius. If you go look at the Indoctrination Theory over in the Bioware forums it makes perfect sense. It's just too damn smart for its own good!

Fuck it's amazing, the basic version is... No just read it, 'tis awesome

Let me just bring up the one I read.

http://w11.zetaboards.com/Theorycraftng_HUB/topic/7688087/1/

Mind = blown

Or i'm just scrambling for any reason to believe that the ending didn't just plain suck.

I'm sure there are smart people over at Bioware, but I really think you're are giving them too much credit with this whole indoctrination theory.

They simply made 3 crappy endings. Because they genuinely thought they were good, or because making various distinct endings depended on the choices you made throughout all 3 games would've taking unreasonable amounts of time and money.

But I guess whatever helps put it behind you.

 

[Agayek]

The more I hear about the ending, the less I want to play it. Its literally half an hour away. I could start the game right now and be with TIM in 5 minutes. But im still not sure I want to see the ending. Maybe I should just ignore it and be happier that way?

Nah, go play it. Just turn off your console/alt-F4 as soon as the elevator appears. You'll know what I mean when you see it. That's the point where it gets stupid. Up until then, it's pretty good.

 

[saintdane05]

So, when EA does this, everybody complains. But when Valve does it, nobody cares.

 

[Emiscary]

Y'know what would've been great solution to the TIM boss fight? A boss fight with Harbinger. Y'know, that reaper you've been hinting at would be a main antagonist since the earliest moments of ME2. Oh wait, you mean that Reaper/Turret at the very end was him? They never mentioned that... wow... so your final confrontation is a telegraphed run you automatically lose, and the last words you exchange with him were in the god awful "Arrival" DLC pack.

Y'know what I'd love as DLC that fits into the existing game? A 400 foot neon sign hanging over the beam in London that says "THE POINT WE RAN OUT OF MONEY." or "THE POINT WE STOPPED GIVING A SHIT." That I think would reflect my personal experience playing Mass Effect better than any 5 minute epilogue tailored to my Shepard.

 

[Flailing Escapist]

Open to speculation, huh? So that'd be like-

Spoiler: many spoilers, all spoilered

Spoiler: Dragon Age: Origins

-ending immediately after you kill the Arch Demon

Spoiler: Lord of the Rings (Return of the King)

-ending Lord of the Rings when Gollum tackles Frodo off of the cliff inside Mt. Doom

Spoiler: Bioshock

-ending Bioshock after you bash Andrew Ryan's brains in

Spoiler: Portal

-ending Portal right after you kill the companion cube

but you get to choose if you just destroy the companion cube, if you become one with the companion cube or if you become a companion cube yourself

Spoiler: Silent Hill 2

-ending Silent Hill 2 after James watches the video where he kills his wife, in the hotel

Spoiler: Star Wars (return of the Jedi)

-ending after Luke takes off Vader's helmet but before we see his face

Spoiler: Red Dead Redemption

-ending John Marston walks out of the barn, cut to black, you hear gunshots, roll credits

Spoiler: Lovecraft (vaguely)

-ending any one of Lovecraft's stories immediately after something strange happens

Spoiler: History lessons

-ending history lessons after the US nuked Japan in WWII. Figure the rest out yourselves, kids

See? Plenty of speculation, little resolution. Not that no resolution isn't okay but when we've reached the end of a trilogy please don't try to pull this shit, please. Or at least warn us ahead of time.

 

[The Wykydtron]

Redact everything I have ever said about ME3's ending. It is genius, pure genius. If you go look at the Indoctrination Theory over in the Bioware forums it makes perfect sense. It's just too damn smart for its own good!

Fuck it's amazing, the basic version is... No just read it, 'tis awesome

Let me just bring up the one I read.

http://w11.zetaboards.com/Theorycraftng_HUB/topic/7688087/1/

Mind = blown

Or i'm just scrambling for any reason to believe that the ending didn't just plain suck.

I'm sure there are smart people over at Bioware, but I really think you're are giving them too much credit with this whole indoctrination theory.

They simply made 3 crappy endings. Because they genuinely thought they were good, or because making various distinct endings depended on the choices you made throughout all 3 games would've taking unreasonable amounts of time and money.

But I guess whatever helps put it behind you.

I suppose it's the power... Of RELIGION AMBIGUITY!

Genuinely think it's an interesting theory though...

 

[Casual Shinji]

Redact everything I have ever said about ME3's ending. It is genius, pure genius. If you go look at the Indoctrination Theory over in the Bioware forums it makes perfect sense. It's just too damn smart for its own good!

Fuck it's amazing, the basic version is... No just read it, 'tis awesome

Let me just bring up the one I read.

http://w11.zetaboards.com/Theorycraftng_HUB/topic/7688087/1/

Mind = blown

Or i'm just scrambling for any reason to believe that the ending didn't just plain suck.

I'm sure there are smart people over at Bioware, but I really think you're are giving them too much credit with this whole indoctrination theory.

They simply made 3 crappy endings. Because they genuinely thought they were good, or because making various distinct endings depended on the choices you made throughout all 3 games would've taking unreasonable amounts of time and money.

But I guess whatever helps put it behind you.

I suppose it's the power... Of RELIGION AMBIGUITY!

Genuinely think it's an interesting theory though...

You know what else it is?

Highly creative thinking brought on by desperation. We tend to imagine and concoct the most outrageous thoughts and ideas when presented with a unacceptable yet inescapable fact: The Mass Effect 3 endings suck galactic balls and there's nothing we can do about it. NOTHING!!!

 

[boag]

Redact everything I have ever said about ME3's ending. It is genius, pure genius. If you go look at the Indoctrination Theory over in the Bioware forums it makes perfect sense. It's just too damn smart for its own good!

Fuck it's amazing, the basic version is... No just read it, 'tis awesome

Let me just bring up the one I read.

http://w11.zetaboards.com/Theorycraftng_HUB/topic/7688087/1/

Mind = blown

Or i'm just scrambling for any reason to believe that the ending didn't just plain suck.

I'm sure there are smart people over at Bioware, but I really think you're are giving them too much credit with this whole indoctrination theory.

They simply made 3 crappy endings. Because they genuinely thought they were good, or because making various distinct endings depended on the choices you made throughout all 3 games would've taking unreasonable amounts of time and money.

But I guess whatever helps put it behind you.

its no longer a theory, they just blurted it out, there are scenes coming out that were cut from the final game for whatever reason, and the indoctrination sequence is part of those.

 

[seditary]

I'm not sure why people are clinging to the indoctrination theory as a good ending.

That isn't an ending. At all.

Literally nothing is resolved if that theory is true.

 

[Zayren]

I agree fighting the Illusive Man would have been bad. A lot less moving than the conversation battle.

But, the end of the game still sucked. Just, everything after Shepard passes out should have been rethought. Heavily.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Redact everything I have ever said about ME3's ending. It is genius, pure genius. If you go look at the Indoctrination Theory over in the Bioware forums it makes perfect sense. It's just too damn smart for its own good!

Fuck it's amazing, the basic version is... No just read it, 'tis awesome

Let me just bring up the one I read.

http://w11.zetaboards.com/Theorycraftng_HUB/topic/7688087/1/

Mind = blown

Or i'm just scrambling for any reason to believe that the ending didn't just plain suck.

I'm sure there are smart people over at Bioware, but I really think you're are giving them too much credit with this whole indoctrination theory.

They simply made 3 crappy endings. Because they genuinely thought they were good, or because making various distinct endings depended on the choices you made throughout all 3 games would've taking unreasonable amounts of time and money.

But I guess whatever helps put it behind you.

its no longer a theory, they just blurted it out, there are scenes coming out that were cut from the final game for whatever reason, and the indoctrination sequence is part of those.

Then it still makes no flipping sense.

When Shep is presented the Destroy and Control options, they are highlighted by Anderson (Destroy) and TIM (Control). Meaning Shep already knew that Destroy was the right thing and Control was the wrong thing to do.

And if Shep was truly indoctrinated, why didn't the Reapers use his own trusted companions against him? And if they did and this was somehow cut from the game, then that means my choices where meaningless afterall because I was being indoctrinated.

I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. And if Bioware goes along with it then it's probably only to quence the massive fan rage.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

It's a bad theory (and ending) because it challenges the legitimacy of the narrative.. once you do that.. everything is completely void anyways.

Muh? There are numerous examples in film and literature of the unreliable narrator. It's actually a pretty commonplace plot/thematic device.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnreliableNarrator

 

[boag]

Redact everything I have ever said about ME3's ending. It is genius, pure genius. If you go look at the Indoctrination Theory over in the Bioware forums it makes perfect sense. It's just too damn smart for its own good!

Fuck it's amazing, the basic version is... No just read it, 'tis awesome

Let me just bring up the one I read.

http://w11.zetaboards.com/Theorycraftng_HUB/topic/7688087/1/

Mind = blown

Or i'm just scrambling for any reason to believe that the ending didn't just plain suck.

I'm sure there are smart people over at Bioware, but I really think you're are giving them too much credit with this whole indoctrination theory.

They simply made 3 crappy endings. Because they genuinely thought they were good, or because making various distinct endings depended on the choices you made throughout all 3 games would've taking unreasonable amounts of time and money.

But I guess whatever helps put it behind you.

its no longer a theory, they just blurted it out, there are scenes coming out that were cut from the final game for whatever reason, and the indoctrination sequence is part of those.

No. It is just a theory! A completely looney-ass theory I might add. but there isn't a shred of evidence in support.

Why do people cling to this batshit crazy theory.

Because there is now EVIDENCE THAT THEY CUT A LOT OF SHIT OUT OF THE ENDING!

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/235/deletedscenes.jpg

I dont understand why you are being so obtuse about this, I thought you would be happy to be proven right about Bioware shitting on people and cutting shit out to sell to them later on.

You seem to not know when to pick your battles and come off as irrational everytime.

The Chobot incident? You were all over that.

The Prothean DLC? You were all over that.

When true shit hits the fan, you no longer any credibility and you come off as a raving lunatic.

Take this whole entire experience as a lesson, dont jump the gun, pick your battles.

I can now freely say that Bioware is a piece of shit company for pulling this crap, and that this will be last product I ever buy, I can now look forward to telling people who blindly defend bioware, that their company is full of greedy fucks that have always had shit plots since the days of Baldurs gate.

And that their only redeeming quality has been writing WITTY Dialogue.