Bioware and linearity.

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Wise_Smiling_Panda

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Nov 22, 2010
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I...dislike...free roaming. In my experience, Rockstar and Bethesda games have felt smaller due to their free roaming rather than the intended increase in perceived size. Okay I must admit I loved Morrowind though - can't explain it, just did. Now before I continue, I would like to state that I hate the way free-roaming has been implemented rather than actually the concept itself.

Now it is my understanding that non-linearity is defined as the ability to choose between doing something now, or doing something else first. The reason behind this definition is that non-linearity is fundamentally the ability to choose - but as games are limited in their ability to include content, the player is limited to the amount of content they can experience. As such, they will eventually experience everything.

If this is the case then Mass Effect 2, even though it did admittedly miss the nice landscapes that the Mako used to allow, is non-linear. After all, you can choose whom to save and in which order. There's even moral choices that makes you think. Legion anyone ;D?

Now as such, I must assume my understanding of linearity is wrong. Because I'm certain I saw someone calling Mass Effect 2 linear (or at least suggesting it). What is non-linearity then? The ability to go do things with no storyline significance? The ability to not have to do something important? I know the term 'free-roam' has been thrown around, but I fail to see how that makes the game non-linear. If free-roaming defined a game as being non-linear then non-linear and linear games would only be separated by the way they link together their acts. And I honestly see little advantage to spreading a few missions on a map for you to run/drive/ride to instead of...wait a second. That's still just the same thing as in my previous paragraph. The only choice involved is still that of the order of acting out the linear part...

In Oblivion, for instance, after becoming the head-honcho of every social club in the tiny world (wait for my reasoning behind the word tiny) and saved the world and whatnot, I felt no joy in walking in a world with no purpose. Everyone was safe. Just as safe as they would've been had the developers limited the order in which I saved them. So in that sense the world was tiny. Because the differing environments had no meaning.

I would like to draw a parallel here between games and art, by pointing out that there are many pieces of priceless art that are little more than Polka-dots on a canvas. The only reason why they have more value than some beautiful landscape painting is that they have meaning. The landscape may be utterly beautiful, but without the back-story or reason that the Polka-dots might have, they are little more than just another wall-ornament.

The same is true, to me at least, for this discussion. Even though the world of Oblivion had you running around spectacular landscapes, the fact that the story itself did not depend on the setting made it feel empty. In linear games, I often feel engaged because I am in the area for a reason - and that I know the reason. If I'm in a dramatic scene of a malfunctioning starship then even though there is only one path, if the path has an element of quality, it can be far more engaging than one where you run around freely. Because the linear path might allow for developers to make an effort in getting you involved in the situation.

To further justify my above statement, consider the fact that we live in the real world, and are only interacting with the surface of the fantasy world. As such, the knowledge or experience required to find the experience immersive isn't necessarily with the player. For instance, on the malfunctioning starship mentioned above, if you knew about the starship tech in that world, then the situation is different. You would know where to go to. Say, the maintenance area to get the specific tool you need to do something specific to the engine room. Or you would know where the armory is so you can steal stuff and get out :D.

However, if you did not know all these things, you would need a guide in order to find any value in the game, and that would mean a mini-map with an objective marker. At this point, making it free-roam would seem silly. You are already telling the player where to go.

So in my honest opinion, a good non-linear game would be one that teaches you for the first 20-30 hours (or perhaps continually) simply so you can have the ability to make choices in an area that would normally require an objective marker. Otherwise the free-roaming, as I see it, aspect adds very little, if anything to the actual gaming experience.
 

JeanLuc761

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this isnt my name said:
Old. Mass effect 2 felt more like a shooter than an rpg, add that with it being more linear, and the non existant plot that game had (80% was gathering a team and sorting out thier issues). So no I dont like the direction they are taking. After ME3 I likely wont touch another BW game, and ME3 may just be me going on youtube for the ending, I cant play through another tps corridor shooter with chest high walls again. If it was more like ME1 maybe, but its most likely the same engine as ME2, so I will pass.
To be fair, the team-gathering and loyalty missions WAS the bulk of the main plot. A lot of people treat them like side-missions, but that truly was the point of the story.
 
Sep 9, 2010
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I feel that Bioware is very devoted to the story telling aspect of their games. And like the people before me said, linearity(?) and good story kinda go hand in hand. I mean, killing a bunch of people and becoming the master of a guild of assassins (the black hand in oblivion) Then saving the king and becoming the noble protector of the realm, that just doesn't make sense, from a story telling perspective. So Bioware has to include a good measure of linearity(Am I using the right word?) to get across their masterfully sculpted story. Kinda forgot where I was going with that, so I'll say that I really like DA, despite its linear story.
 

Soviet Heavy

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Flying-Emu said:
Soviet Heavy said:
I don't mind the linearity. What I do mind is that they basically rehash the cast of Knights of the Old Republic in all of their games.

Every archetype from KOTOR is seen in each of their characters from their other series.
... Where was Kreia in ME2?
Kreia was created by Obsidian, not Bioware. KOTOR 2 is an Obsidian game, hence the strong original characters.
 

WorldCritic

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Apr 13, 2009
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I... don't really care. Linear or open-world I don't care what an RPG's style is as long as I enjoy playing it.
 

Eclectic Dreck

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Soviet Heavy said:
I don't mind the linearity. What I do mind is that they basically rehash the cast of Knights of the Old Republic in all of their games.

Every archetype from KOTOR is seen in each of their characters from their other series.
More accurately, they are rehashing the Baldur's Gate saga.
 
Sep 9, 2010
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this isnt my name said:
Icarion said:
I feel that Bioware is very devoted to the story telling aspect of their games. And like the people before me said, linearity(?) and good story kinda go hand in hand. I mean, killing a bunch of people and becoming the master of a guild of assassins (the black hand in oblivion) Then saving the king and becoming the noble protector of the realm, that just doesn't make sense, from a story telling perspective. So Bioware has to include a good measure of linearity(Am I using the right word?) to get across their masterfully sculpted story. Kinda forgot where I was going with that, so I'll say that I really like DA, despite its linear story.
Get Fallout NV, obsidian dose it right, mixing sandbox and story.
I have FO:NV but my asshole friend decided to steal it from me. Regardless, I didn't get as involved with the NV story as I did with the DAO story, and I put story pretty high on my list of things in games. I loved FO:3 and I kinda rushed through NV/got it all fucked up by going out of order. But I loved DAO more.
 

The_Blue_Rider

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Sep 4, 2009
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I would like a bit more RPG in the next mass effect, Mass Effect 2 really felt like Gears of War way too much
 

Smooth Operator

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Oct 5, 2010
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Well for RPG's Baldur's Gate is my golden standard, so my wish is someone would make more of that (a world to explore, people to meet, stories to hear, quests to do, critters to slay and let's not forget the fat loot).

But ME2 is Bioware's new golden goose so ofcourse every other RPG they make will go the same route (DA2 being the first).
Linearity is far simpler for a game designer, takes them far less time and people to make, meaning less money spent, plus their most linear game made the biggest bucks... why would they turn away from that.
Also game linearity appeals to the casual gamers, less complexity -> more audience -> more money.

The only way we will see some proper RPS's anymore is from indie developers who will be craving them, sadly they don't have the cash for a good implementation.
 

Mikeyfell

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Aug 24, 2010
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there's nothing wrong with the Linearity in Bioware games

I do have a problem with the linearity in Fallout: New Vegas
it killed the game
 

Another

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Mar 19, 2008
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For me it really depends on what the developer is shooting for.

With Mass Effect 2 I was expecting that the storyline would have to be tighter than the first since ME1 was the set up and now its at a refining point before the big finish. So I expected increased linearity. That said with ME3 I expect a linear first half but a slightly more open end in order to choose the end to the saga. (Or straight linearity, who knows *shrugs*)

However I do feel as though I wish dragon age stayed fairly open, or even got bigger. It struck me much more as a open adventure than ME. However its nowhere near the openness of say, The Elder Scrolls. But with a more open format you run the risk of losing direction in the story, which is probably the reason I never finished Morrowind or Oblivion.
 

ironduke88

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Mar 20, 2010
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The linearity in ME2 was a serious issue for me, as the space exploration aspect of ME1 was done just that much better. But I did like the way that you had to search for the side-quests in ME2, as you kind of bumped into them while you explored, not just the standard talk to everyone in the main city, then go out on fetch-quests.

I am replaying DAO at the moment and I don't really see anything wrong with the linearity in that game. I get to choose what quests I do in which order, how I complete them (although this was slightly linear in that each quest was a corridor with a big bad at the end of it), who I bring along with me, and how I treat them. That I have to complete a set of accomplishments before moving on to the next aspect of the story just made the story seem more important and immersive. In Oblivion no-one cared if you completed the story or not, and, as has been mentioned earlier, that you could become the head gladitor, thief, assassin, mage or whatever in one play through was ridiculous.

TL:DR Oblivion was too linear. ME1 and DAO got it right. ME2 was a shooter with some RPG elements. Baulder's Gate was the best RPG ever made.
 
Sep 9, 2010
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this isnt my name said:
Hmm I found it better than DAO, watching the factions interact and then choosing which one I thoughwas best for the Mojave. The epilouge was better too imo. If you get your game back and play 360 I reccomend dead money. I cant spoil it, but I dont think I ever felt guilt before, until I played dead money and ended up with a sad ending, and I didnt realise why until it was too late :( I think obsidian dose an amazing job, sure bethesda dose better worlds, and bioware dose good writing, but I feel obsidian beats them by combining the best of both, NV has some nice gray choices, good backstory and a well done epilouge, no matter what I cant get the ending I want. And on the bethesda forums, people still cant decide which faction is best moraly. Its a good game, I think it can equal if not do better than DA in terms of writing. But thats just my oppinion. Good luck getting your game back.
Make no mistake, the moral choice system in NV blew my mind. Its just I did all teh casino missions before I was told to, so I ended up not having a choice at all. The writing was amazing, and I fully intend to play through it thouroughly as soon as I get it back. Which should be before break ends. I think the Characters were part of what made DAO so good for me. Honestly, hearing Morrigan come onto Sten that was priceless. Also, tehre was no "Karma" so it truly felt like your choice. You had to weigh choices against how you felt and how your companions would react, as opposed to shooting for a certain Karma level.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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I don't think theres anythign wrong with being linear, as long as the story is sold gameplay fun then I'm set