Bioware *clearly* hates women and wants them to suffer

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BloatedGuppy

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This might seem kind of a strange thing to complain about, because I'm not actually a woman (it's true!), but what the HELL, Bioware, is up with these romantic leads for women in your games? They're intolerable. Male Shepards and Wardens and Hawkes have a panoply of riches to choose from. But women?

Alistair is the cream of the crop because his simpering is occasionally amusing, but he's a polarizing character who is deeply loathed by half the player base. Zhevran is a font of venereal disease and looks like an escapee from the cast of Jersey Shore. Fenris wandered in from a questionable anime and clearly has some manner of magical leprosy. Sebastian is a prim, bloodless bible thumper. And the less said about Anders the better.


Can we talk about Mage rights again?

Then we can move along to Mass Effect, where we have the unbearably fabulous Kaidan Alenko, who is almost certainly a moldering corpse on the surface of Virmire because Ashley is so goddam indispensable. Thane, the utterly demoralizing and downbeat frog-man with his acid flashbacks and relentless fatalism. The entirely awesome Garrus, who is nevertheless a scaly and crusted anthropomorphic lizard and thus unlikely to bestir many hearts. Leaving us with Jacob, and was there ever a duller romantic lead than Jacob Taylor? They wasted so many development resources detailing his improbable pectorals they forgot to program him up a personality.


Can we hurry this up? I have an Old Spice Commercial to shoot in half an hour.

And of course, those of you old enough to remember Baldur's Gate 2 will recall that male heroes had their choice of three lively and vivacious companions, and female heroes were stuck with Anomen fucking Delyrn. A man distinguishable solely by the fact he had the most punchable face in the history of gaming. Just look at him, and tell me you don't want to punch the HELL out of him.


Right in his smug face.

And the dialogue...oh lord, the dialogue. The droopy, sappy declarations of love. The bizarrely animated nocturnal fumblings. Shepard and Hawke, acting like sexual harassment lawsuits waiting to happen instead of flirting like normal human beings. It's all so EXCRUCIATING.

So please, Bioware, throw the Femhawkes and Femsheps a frickin' bone, will you? Where's their Morrigan? Or Ashley? Or Tali? or Jack? Or Miranda? Or Merrill? Why do guys have a range of at least moderately interesting stock personality types to choose from, and girls get a choice of Blandy McBlanderson, Repulsive Alien, Raging Metrosexual, or Epic Douchebag? Surely you can't expect ALL of them to become lesbians just to avoid weeping quietly into their pillows at the compromises they have to make to get that romance achievement?
 

yuval152

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Can we hurry this up? I have an Old Spice Commercial to shoot in half an hour.
HAlirous.

OT:it's just the romance it's not like they're shoving it up in your face.
 

PonceyMcTosserFaic

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Jul 30, 2011
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1.His face does look very punchable.

2.What if bioware are trying to turn femsheps and femhawks into lesbos by giving them lame guys to choose from?

3.it is very one sided. male shep gets miranda (dat ass) ashley (still hot) tali (sexy nerd) jack (total dom) or Liara (pure hawtness).

Femshep only gets jacob (meh...) thane (srsly?) kaiden (more yawn) or garrus (he's cool as a friend but i don't see how it would work if you tried to do it.) Why can't femshep just date Joker? he's funny, he's useful, he has an actual backstory and flaws that make him more awesome. maybe bioware is just trying to be PC by putting a "play as a girl" option. idk.
 

Stall

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Hm, I guess this is why everyone seems to bend both ways in Bioware games.
 

ABLb0y

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But still, Msheps get Miranda (Smug, whiny *****) Ashley (Mass Effect equivilant of Fred Phelps) Jack (Just plain ugly). So... yeah.
 

SwimmingRock

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I think the part that shocks me most about all of this is that you managed to find a screenshot of FemShep with Jacob. You know what that means, right? Somebody actually chose to have a relationship with Jacob. Mind=blown.

OT: I hadn't really thought about it, to be honest. I play my characters gay whenever possible, but most games don't allow for a homosexual male character, so I've been romancing female characters in all my BioWare games (I killed Zevran on my male playthrough, because I couldn't stand him). Never bothered picking up DA2 after the demo, though.

I will say that you have a point about Mass Effect. I romanced Thane with FemShep, but mostly because I was interested in how his this might affect ME3 rather than any actual desire to romance Thane.
 

Saltyk

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Sep 12, 2010
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I don't think Jacob would have been so bad if they gave him better combat abilities. I was thinking that he would have been one of the best members if they replaced that damn pistol with a sniper rifle. Think about it. Shotgun, sniper rifle, incendiary ammo, pull, and barrier. He would have been way more than a poor man's Grunt. People would have probably liked him. I would have.

But really, I don't think there are too many good romantic leads in games. Even characters like Morrigan have flaws. I was so mad when we got really close and then she freaked out at me and there was no way to salvage the relationship. I felt cheated. Don't get me wrong, it makes some sense for her character, but I still felt cheated.
 

Saltyk

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Sep 12, 2010
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ABLb0y said:
But still, Msheps get Miranda (Smug, whiny *****) Ashley (Mass Effect equivilant of Fred Phelps) Jack (Just plain ugly). So... yeah.
Yeah, I didn't really like the romance options too much. I didn't really want to romance Miranda or Jack in Mass Effect 2, but I wanted to make a choice, so I went with the lesser of two evils. In other words, Miranda. Jack was psycho and the shaved head is not really attractive. Sorry, all you ladies with shaved heads, I like some hair up top.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Saltyk said:
But really, I don't think there are too many good romantic leads in games. Even characters like Morrigan have flaws. I was so mad when we got really close and then she freaked out at me and there was no way to salvage the relationship. I felt cheated. Don't get me wrong, it makes some sense for her character, but I still felt cheated.
You felt cheated because Morrigan was actually had some elements of her personality that sparked a rudimentary level of interest, and she wasn't hard to look at. Yes, she was abrasive and acerbic, but some guys dig that. So when she left, you felt like you were missing out on what could have been.

If one of the male leads had ditched you, you would have thought "Oh thank GOD". I remember feeling faintly relieved when...

...Anders blew up the chantry, because I finally had an ethical excuse to kill him so I wouldn't have to listen to him any more.
 

Soviet Heavy

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But the Priiiize!

Sorry, had to put it out there.

For that matter, how come we can't romance Wynne? Sure she's technically dead, but she'll knit your socks! Shale stomps chickens for us to eat! Oghren would make for a great drunken abusive relationship! Good lord, imagine if LadyHawke could romance Varric!
 

Rack

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I think with the way games have evolved friendship paths would make more sense, neatly sidestepping the whole thorny issue. I always called for romance options historically after the amazing Viconia path but the exclusivity, the gender restrictions and the corniness of it all drag it down.

Oh and I may want to punch Anomen in the face but he's about the most powerful character in BG2 and quite frankly I'm scared.
 

New Troll

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Reminder: Bioware is mostly composed of nerdy guys who don't have a clue what females actually desire from a romance. God how I love them all!
 

Gethsemani_v1legacy

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I think the problem isn't that Bioware hates women, just that the men who write the characters at Bioware has no idea what women are actually looking for in terms of romantic/sexual relations and probably did their background research with those granny-erotica paperbacks that are a dime a dozen. Apparently they have an understanding of what men like, as they have managed to give us a plethora of diverse male romance options (from Ashley who is straight forward and speaks her mind via Morrigan who's a ***** to Tali/Merrill who's shy, inexperienced and naive).
I suppose that I just think it might be a good idea to let women do the romance options for women, perhaps that way they'd get it right.
 

Scorpid

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Anders was for me was without a doubt the most interesting relationship i've seen between two characters in a game if you played it as I did. Alistar was just funny and i had no problem with him, he was the Xander of the series who just keeps making one liners till one hits and you can't help but laugh hard. I didn't care about Garuss being an alien, the fact he wasn't some cut alien that is suppose to be a female Adonis made him more interesting. (Unlike say Liara for the female equivalent i found her horribly boring)

I think the females have a fine pick of romances. You complained alot about pick of males but you never said what you were looking for in your ideal man romance?

And what about some love for our homosexual amigos? If there's anything to complain about for Romances it's that.

I agree with you on Jacob and Fenris wholeheartedly. Jacob's scenes i tryed to avoid as much as possible and when you had to go through his special mission it only got worse. Miranda was too much of a pinup girl for me to give a shit about.

PS. I loved Jacks as a character, granted i never pursued any relationship with her but her story was just interesting.
 

DustyDrB

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Jan 19, 2010
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Alternate thread title: How to criticize a popular game and not come across as an insufferable ass. Well done, OP.

Anyway...I just don't see the problem with Jacob. He's got the least useful skill set in the ME2 team, but he seems like a decent fellow. He's not whiny, he's loyal. I'm not into men, but we could be drinking buddies.

As for the rest, I see your point. But come on, I know you had a thing for Zaeed. The way he says "Big goddam heroes"...
 

Moonlight Butterfly

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Mar 16, 2011
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You forgot about the fact that they make thier most likeable male character unavailable to date like Joker and Varric.

Anomen Delryn... I hate him so much. So so much.

Nice thread OP :p

A woman wrote Alastair, I think that says a lot since he's the only bioware romance I can stand. (not sure who wrote the others)
 

BloatedGuppy

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xXxJessicaxXx said:
You forgot about the fact that they make thier most likeable male character unavailable to date like Joker and Varric.

Anomen Delryn... I hate him so much. So so much.
Indeed. When I first started interacting with Varric, I knew I wanted my Femhawke to romance him. Naturally, he was not available.

That's pretty much the determining factor in a Bioware RPG as to whether or not a male character is romanceable. Is he a dipshit or a scabby alien? No? He's not romanceable.
 

MasterMakayo

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PonceyMcTosserFaic said:
Why can't femshep just date Joker? he's funny, he's useful, he has an actual backstory and flaws that make him more awesome.
You can't date joker because the moment you jump his bones, you break them.
 

Moonlight Butterfly

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Mar 16, 2011
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MasterMakayo said:
PonceyMcTosserFaic said:
Why can't femshep just date Joker? he's funny, he's useful, he has an actual backstory and flaws that make him more awesome.
You can't date joker because the moment you jump his bones, you break them.
Yeah becuase

1.disabled people can't have relationships? and 2. It's okay to risk killing Tali? /sarcasm.

riiight....