BioWare Defends Mass Effect 3 Launch-Day DLC
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
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Who'll back me up on the idea that this argument will still be going even after release day? and that Zeel will still be wrong, and just refuse to either A) admit it or B) stop arguing his "point", even after everyone knows what exactly is in the DLC or the Game. It'll go a little something like this:
"All of the people here talking about the DLC actually work for EA/Bioware. It's all a massive conspiracy!"
"All of the people here talking about the DLC actually work for EA/Bioware. It's all a massive conspiracy!"
So...a company is trying to make more money.
Well, I say, that is a novel idea.
But without sarcasm, it is quite obvious that EA and other companies are merely seeing how much customers are willing to pay for their product. Pretty standard practice in the market and people should not get so mad about it.
It'll regulate itself. That's how the market works. Once EA actually reaches a point where the money they ask for is too much, people will no longer buy the games and they will not make a profit and they will revert to a point where they did.
It's just...normal. All you have to do is ask yourself if the entertainment you get from a game is worth the price you pay. So far, the majority seems to think it is.
We'll see how long that lasts.
Well, I say, that is a novel idea.
But without sarcasm, it is quite obvious that EA and other companies are merely seeing how much customers are willing to pay for their product. Pretty standard practice in the market and people should not get so mad about it.
It'll regulate itself. That's how the market works. Once EA actually reaches a point where the money they ask for is too much, people will no longer buy the games and they will not make a profit and they will revert to a point where they did.
It's just...normal. All you have to do is ask yourself if the entertainment you get from a game is worth the price you pay. So far, the majority seems to think it is.
We'll see how long that lasts.
While I've only really been reading up to this point, I felt the need to post in agreement with you Canadish, at least when it comes to the Fanboy issue. This thread has definitely been entertaining and there are definitely flaws to the argument on both sides, as neither has entirely definitive proof of their claims.
Though while this is true, I personally believe there definitely could be something fishy going on with this DLC. One of those reasons being that while I'm not really a fan of his, I definitely agree with TotalBiscuit when it comes to his ideas about what Collector Edition content should be. I've never really liked the practice, but I am mostly fine with physical collector editions. It's when it moved digital and started including decent chunks of content, (Such as in this case, a full character over simply a skin or some armor.) that's when it becomes a problem for me.
My other major issue is the price, almost all Bioware DLC has been ten dollars and in many cases, for as little as an hour or so of content. That may not seem like much, but it will when you think about the fact that by using simple math, you can deduce that ten dollars is a sixth of the price of a full game. Are you getting a sixth of the content in any full Bioware game when you purchase ANY ten dollar Bioware DLC? Certainly not.
This also brings me to one of the arguments many of you have had against "Zeel." Which is the rumor that this DLC is just the ability to use the Prothean character as a party member and not his whole existence. I have to ask any of you, if this is true and that's all it is, is that really worth a sixth of the price and equal to a sixth of the content of the full game? I definitely don't think so.
There's also another issue that bugs me quite personally, which is that all those ten dollar charges can be used for so many amazing games that all have far more value in terms of content and length. I can easily name any number of incredible games on Xbox Live's Arcade that are the same ten dollar price. This bugs me personally because I know quite a few people who will without question buy every Bioware DLC released, but wont try a single Arcade or "Cheap" title I suggest. There are also a number of full retail games that I definitely feel are near entirely ignored in favor of Bioware games and their DLC. While reading through this thread I was constantly reminded of one in Daystar Clarion's avatar, Okami, an amazing game and one of my favorite PS2 titles. One of the very few games in this current generation I can say I've purchased multiple times and it was pretty much nearly ignored when it was originally released.
Point being, while I do really enjoy the Mass Effect series, I think Bioware fanboyism has completely run wild. As much as I enjoy Bioware games, and I do, I don't think they deserve the craze they receive. I generally see them as games with well written characters, very well put together universes, pretty basic over-all stories and very average game play. The whole package makes a good experience, but nothing about them screams for the attention they receive.
In my experience no one Fanboys like a Bioware fanboy and if you can't at least acknowledge that there is at least a distinct possibility of greed driven foul play from EA/Bioware in this situation, then there really is no point to try and convince you otherwise, as you are, as far as I'm concerned, a Fanboy/girl. It's one thing to say there's no concrete evidence, it's another to entirely dismiss the possibility with EA/Bioware's track record.
I will be buying Mass Effect 3, but not the DLC, (Nothing new for me. All of my Bioware games are "clean" saves, minus DA:O as Awakening is the only DLC I've purchased and will probably continue to be the only one, as it's the only one I felt even came close to being sold at it's value.) but this may also be my last Bioware game. I was one of the people who had a serious problem with the mess that was Dragon Age 2, mostly because of bugs. I could not get a proper completion of that game until probably half a year after it came out. This is of course not also considering some of the horrible design decisions like the repetitive dungeons, but that's just more to the point. As a fan, I've been very disappointed with Bioware in recent years and I used to see them as an inspirational part of this industry. The things they've done since joining up with EA have only furthered that and after Dragon Age 2, I told myself Mass Effect 3 would be their last chance to get more cash out of me, unless it ended up being an AMAZING, FINISHED and acceptably buggy product.
So yes, before this gets much longer, I will be buying Mass Effect 3, but not the DLC and I would suggest to anyone else bugged by these actions, to simply do the same. It wont kill you to not have the DLC and you can still speak with you money as it's the sales of the separate DLC that they are definitely going to be mostly concerned with and watching the most at this point.
Though while this is true, I personally believe there definitely could be something fishy going on with this DLC. One of those reasons being that while I'm not really a fan of his, I definitely agree with TotalBiscuit when it comes to his ideas about what Collector Edition content should be. I've never really liked the practice, but I am mostly fine with physical collector editions. It's when it moved digital and started including decent chunks of content, (Such as in this case, a full character over simply a skin or some armor.) that's when it becomes a problem for me.
My other major issue is the price, almost all Bioware DLC has been ten dollars and in many cases, for as little as an hour or so of content. That may not seem like much, but it will when you think about the fact that by using simple math, you can deduce that ten dollars is a sixth of the price of a full game. Are you getting a sixth of the content in any full Bioware game when you purchase ANY ten dollar Bioware DLC? Certainly not.
This also brings me to one of the arguments many of you have had against "Zeel." Which is the rumor that this DLC is just the ability to use the Prothean character as a party member and not his whole existence. I have to ask any of you, if this is true and that's all it is, is that really worth a sixth of the price and equal to a sixth of the content of the full game? I definitely don't think so.
There's also another issue that bugs me quite personally, which is that all those ten dollar charges can be used for so many amazing games that all have far more value in terms of content and length. I can easily name any number of incredible games on Xbox Live's Arcade that are the same ten dollar price. This bugs me personally because I know quite a few people who will without question buy every Bioware DLC released, but wont try a single Arcade or "Cheap" title I suggest. There are also a number of full retail games that I definitely feel are near entirely ignored in favor of Bioware games and their DLC. While reading through this thread I was constantly reminded of one in Daystar Clarion's avatar, Okami, an amazing game and one of my favorite PS2 titles. One of the very few games in this current generation I can say I've purchased multiple times and it was pretty much nearly ignored when it was originally released.
Point being, while I do really enjoy the Mass Effect series, I think Bioware fanboyism has completely run wild. As much as I enjoy Bioware games, and I do, I don't think they deserve the craze they receive. I generally see them as games with well written characters, very well put together universes, pretty basic over-all stories and very average game play. The whole package makes a good experience, but nothing about them screams for the attention they receive.
In my experience no one Fanboys like a Bioware fanboy and if you can't at least acknowledge that there is at least a distinct possibility of greed driven foul play from EA/Bioware in this situation, then there really is no point to try and convince you otherwise, as you are, as far as I'm concerned, a Fanboy/girl. It's one thing to say there's no concrete evidence, it's another to entirely dismiss the possibility with EA/Bioware's track record.
I will be buying Mass Effect 3, but not the DLC, (Nothing new for me. All of my Bioware games are "clean" saves, minus DA:O as Awakening is the only DLC I've purchased and will probably continue to be the only one, as it's the only one I felt even came close to being sold at it's value.) but this may also be my last Bioware game. I was one of the people who had a serious problem with the mess that was Dragon Age 2, mostly because of bugs. I could not get a proper completion of that game until probably half a year after it came out. This is of course not also considering some of the horrible design decisions like the repetitive dungeons, but that's just more to the point. As a fan, I've been very disappointed with Bioware in recent years and I used to see them as an inspirational part of this industry. The things they've done since joining up with EA have only furthered that and after Dragon Age 2, I told myself Mass Effect 3 would be their last chance to get more cash out of me, unless it ended up being an AMAZING, FINISHED and acceptably buggy product.
So yes, before this gets much longer, I will be buying Mass Effect 3, but not the DLC and I would suggest to anyone else bugged by these actions, to simply do the same. It wont kill you to not have the DLC and you can still speak with you money as it's the sales of the separate DLC that they are definitely going to be mostly concerned with and watching the most at this point.
Seriously??? If you want the DLC real bad, buy it! In Australia, Collectors edition is approx $120 release day, "vanilla" edition is $100. DLC? $10! DO THE MATH! If you don't want the tangible extras with the collectors edition, but you want the DLC, YOU ARE SPENDING LESS MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!
Every time I see someone mention the word "entitlement" I want to deck them. If only because it's become a kneejerk reaction whenever gamers get upset about something. The people who get upset may not always be in the right, but gods damn, shut the fuck up about entitlement already.
The companies are already making money hand-over-foot, so there's absolutely no reason the Day 1 DLC couldn't have been given away free with every new game purchased. Especially if it wasn't completed in time to be included but may have been intended.
Also, don't force-feed me the excuse that "the content was started too late to include" because when it comes to Day 1 DLC, more often than not the content was planned from the beginning or else it wouldn't be coming out at the exact same gods-damned time as the game. If it was truly meant to be an added expansion, it would have come out maybe a month later to keep the gamers playing.
And yes, $10 for a very brief/smallish DLC (especially compared to the main game) is quite preposterous. Many arcade games on XBL can get extra chapters for 400 Microsoft Points. The size of the DLC and the price should be proportional. I'm rather sick of DLC for major games always being 800 MSP and then it being maybe a few MB in size, meaning it's most likely unlocking something already on the disc.
Since we can't see the size yet, we don't know if this is actually being added or if it's unlocking something. I'm pretty sure a lot of people will revisit this if it turns out to be a hashcode or something.
EDIT: Feel like I should point out I'm not even a fan of the series, this is the opinion of someone looking at the spectacle as a bystander.
The companies are already making money hand-over-foot, so there's absolutely no reason the Day 1 DLC couldn't have been given away free with every new game purchased. Especially if it wasn't completed in time to be included but may have been intended.
Also, don't force-feed me the excuse that "the content was started too late to include" because when it comes to Day 1 DLC, more often than not the content was planned from the beginning or else it wouldn't be coming out at the exact same gods-damned time as the game. If it was truly meant to be an added expansion, it would have come out maybe a month later to keep the gamers playing.
And yes, $10 for a very brief/smallish DLC (especially compared to the main game) is quite preposterous. Many arcade games on XBL can get extra chapters for 400 Microsoft Points. The size of the DLC and the price should be proportional. I'm rather sick of DLC for major games always being 800 MSP and then it being maybe a few MB in size, meaning it's most likely unlocking something already on the disc.
Since we can't see the size yet, we don't know if this is actually being added or if it's unlocking something. I'm pretty sure a lot of people will revisit this if it turns out to be a hashcode or something.
EDIT: Feel like I should point out I'm not even a fan of the series, this is the opinion of someone looking at the spectacle as a bystander.
I love how many replies this thread has got.
I bet when Andy sees how many replies his articles has received, he'll be all like:
But when he sees why it has as many pages as it does, he'll be all like:
I bet when Andy sees how many replies his articles has received, he'll be all like:
But when he sees why it has as many pages as it does, he'll be all like:
It's not that bad.trollpwner said:I was going to say something similar.Daystar Clarion said:I love how many replies this thread has got.I bet when Andy sees how many replies his articles has received, he'll be all like:
But when he sees why it has as many pages as it does, he'll be all like:
BTW, that Shepard face is truly, utterly terrifying!
It only pierces the very depths of your soul.
Sorry guys. My disappearance is a sad tale. The logic being tossed around in this thread literally overloaded my brain yesterday, and I passed out. I just came to a few minutes ago in a small pool of my own bile with a nasty keyboard print on my face.VivaciousDeimos said:
I'm very glad to see the hilarity is EXACTLY where I left it! XD
I can't help it. The more serious these arguments become, the greater my desire to comedically undermine them with slightly-modified-yet-highly-applicable quotes from the game. 8)Daystar Clarion said:You never get tired of doing that, do youThe.Bard said:
Also, EA/Bioware pay me double for using graphics!
I knew you were getting something out of this.The.Bard said:I can't help it. The more serious these arguments become, the greater my desire to comedically undermine them with slightly-modified-yet-highly-applicable quotes from the game. 8)Daystar Clarion said:You never get tired of doing that, do youThe.Bard said:
Also, EA/Bioware pay me double for using graphics!
Zeel was right :O
Is it wrong to have day 1 dlc for a game? Not really.
Is it wrong to charge for day 1 dlc? Nope.
Should "loyal" customers feel taken advantage for being charged for day 1 dlc? Yeps, they should.
Just because a practice is common in a business does not mean people/customers should get used to it.
In the U.S. Industrial Age, it was common to fire any employee who got injured at the work place. It was something people got used to for years.
The best choice for the business to do is at least have day 1 dlc free for customers who purchase the game at full retail at stores. But since Bioware is going down this path I'll just wait a few months and buy the game on Ebay for $40 and pay for the DLC and save $10 compared to the loyal customer.
When the "loyal" customer can get taken advantage of so easily, than yeah the customer should be mad.
Is it wrong to charge for day 1 dlc? Nope.
Should "loyal" customers feel taken advantage for being charged for day 1 dlc? Yeps, they should.
Just because a practice is common in a business does not mean people/customers should get used to it.
In the U.S. Industrial Age, it was common to fire any employee who got injured at the work place. It was something people got used to for years.
The best choice for the business to do is at least have day 1 dlc free for customers who purchase the game at full retail at stores. But since Bioware is going down this path I'll just wait a few months and buy the game on Ebay for $40 and pay for the DLC and save $10 compared to the loyal customer.
When the "loyal" customer can get taken advantage of so easily, than yeah the customer should be mad.
