BioWare Explains Why There's No Homosexuality in Mass Effect 2

[vamp rocks]

its not the fact there is no homosexuality in mass effect that annoys me, its the fact that there is no MALE homosexuality in Mass Effect, if it was just no gays at all it would be fine as many games do this and to be honest i dont really care. but if they are going to put in Lesbians, but not allow you to be a gay man, that is a bit unfair dont you think?

 

[Deleted]

I wanted to see gay men have sex on my video game because I am gay as well and everything I do has to be gay or else I am betraying what I stand for which is gay things like me.

[sub][sub]don't flame me bro[/sub][/sub]

I LOL at people who want 100% character customization. They clearly said that it isn't your custom avatar of YOU, it's Shepard!

 

[Pamela Blalock]

I still think we're gonna pop out a kid in ME3. That's why the lady-asari relationship works but a dude-on-dude one wouldn't. Clearly BioWare doesn't have a problem with homosexuality (Dragon Age and what not). They can say it's because ME is more of a mainstream title, but I think there's going to be a baby Shepard.

Of course, they could have a homosexual relationship and just pull the futuristic card and mix the two dads' DNA, but I digress.

A female Shepard and Kelly can hook up but I don't think you get Paramour credit for it and other circumstances may prevent her from continuing your relationship with her. Besides, she's more of a fling because your first love (from ME1) doesn't even care if Kelly gets with you.

 

[epikAXE]

Your Charachter in dragon age, didnt really have a personallity. you could morph them into whatever you wanted them to be. whereas with Shepard, he/she has a personality and veiws about things in the universe, and more importanly, a voice. There isnt the same level of charachter customisation as there was with Dragon Age, and obviously, the inclusion of Homosexual relationships had to be sacrificed, in order to create a more well rounded relatable Shepard.

Still, my Garrus + Shepard Fantasies will just have to stay put for now

 

[Elf Defiler Korgan]

According to the character concept, you can't have a hard-arse space commando who is gay? Or a determined and diplomatic captain who likes a bit from their own side of the table?

The lesbianism is possible, but alas the man-love is not. Such a disappointment. I find playing a gay character intriguing, especially if you have a low charisma stat or lack the required seduction points or whatever. Then you get the rejection, that builds character.

Onnnne frustrated gayy mannnn against the Darrrrrkspawwwwn!

Good points guys.

 

[Therumancer]

Okay, some might have some difficulty divorcing this from my other politics, but honestly even if I was not anti-gay men I wouldn't find an issue here.

It's like this:

Forced diversity tends to destroy just about everything it touches. Not every concept or storyline tends to work well with every single type of person or behavior. What's more writers and creators have to be able to get into their work, and honestly most people tend to write/create to entertain themselves as much as anything a straight guy who is turned on by girls doing it (or the idea of it at least) is going to have that come out in his work when it goes sexual. If the writers/creators are not gay, they might get an idea for a gay character or relationship once in a while, but it isn't going to be their usual kind of thing. I do not think holding this against them is right.

The point can be made that having a gay character/option *might* bring in more sales to gay men, however creating characters specifically to appeal to a specific minority demographic oftentimes does more harm than good.

It's sort of like how things have been ruined when suits come up and tell creators "your show is too whitebread, put in some minority characters and give them X amount of time and involvement in the plot". This demoralizes the writers, and can ruin entire productions, not to mention the fact that a token character can usually be identified as one and doesn't wind up satisfying anyone.

Even if I wasn't anti-gay men, I'd still oppose the idea of saying that they SHOULD be in any game with romantic potential.

To be blunt I think the whole gay option thing came about in Dragon Age because the writers felt it was appropriate for some of the characters they were already working on (like Zevran). On the other hand it didn't really fit any of the characters being developed for Mass Effect 2.


To put it another way, there is this "Cho Aniki" game (I think that's the name) which is about gay musclemen saving the world going by the hype. Saying there should be a gay option in Mass Effect 2, is like saying that Cho-Aniki should include a heterosexual character and female romance interests/endings. Heck, this might be a bad example since I'm speaking about it from Escapist articles, but it seems to be a decent counter-point.

To be honest though in the end, one should not be screaming "put more gay men into Bioware games" but rather encouraging more gay men to go into video game design, and when they get money to put that money into developing/creating video games and such. Then you'll see a greater influance. It's sort of like how occasionally you see people crying about the lack of Black super heroes, but then again there aren't many black guys writing comics or putting vast amounts of money into their production. The same can be said about pretty much any minority that feels under-represented in pop culture.

To put things into perspective, for a very long time there were very few Asians/Japanese in comics. That changed not only in terms of characters (though they are still a minority in the US for obvious reasons) but in terms of influance. The reason being is that you saw a lot of Asians developing characters, pimping them around (with MANY failure) and just as importantly seeing successful members of that ethnicity investing/risking money. You also saw a massive growth of an Asian comic book industry on it's own, combined with cross trade of eastern and western comics all over the globe. You even see westerners going to Asia to work on comics there (and I believe along with this you have seen more "white" characters in Manga).

So basically I feel it's a non-issue. I think things can also be "one up" without having to become a staple. For example if they threw sex fetishes into this I wouldn't think all of them should have to carry over into every game done from then on. I mean just imagine if every game had to include a full range of bondage/S&M enthusiasts, scat fanatics, furries, and who knows what else... it would turn my spaceship or castle into a bloody erotic freak show, and push anyone's tolerance to a limit.

... just imagine if someone was to say that because "Arcanum" had a bit where you could have sex with a sheep (no I am not kidding, ask for "something differant" in the Bordello) does not mean beastiality should feature into every game. Incidently ENN made a similar arguement in jest in connection to the entire "sexual tolerance" issue in video games. Their whole "why would they call him Dogmeat if they didn't expect you to want to have sex with him" schtick was oddly disturbing to boot since I never thought of that name like that before... :/




Agree, disagree, or hate me for saying this, it's my opinion.

 

[Vivace-Vivian]

Complete bull shit. If they had a vision for the Commander they shouldn't have let you customize her. She is supposed to be a BLANK SLATE. Bastards. I can't believe they would throw us out to the cold. I feel so sorry for homosexual males who play this game. I was heartbroken when all I got was a peck from Liara. Honestly, it was in the first game. I can't believe they'd change it. Disgusting.

This is, right here, an example of why I don't buy into equality movements. Equality movements (No longer) are about equality, but instead, are a dictatorial movement simply looking to take control.

Look at Femmenists now-a-days. During a sex scene in a movie, the man is on top, so obviously (To them) the movie see's women as less. But if the WOMAN was on top, and you pointed out that in this case, it is not equality, but SHE that is controlling the situation, suddenly you are a chauvinistic pig.

Same goes for the Gay Rights movements. It is starting to turn into what the women rights movement has turned into. Not EVERY FUCKING CHARACTER has to be GAY OR BI. Not EVERY GAME, MOVE, OR BOOK HAS TO INCLUDE GAY OR BI CHARACTERS.

Like the commenter that I am quoting, it seems many are starting to want NOT equal rights, but instead domination, FORCING people to HAVE to have gay or bi cast in their movie, game, or book or else they are being "Intolerant".

I am half expecting next "Why is there only a Black MAN? Why can't there be a Black WOMAN in the crew?"

Seriously people. Get off your cross, and use that wood to build a bridge and GET OVER IT!

I never said I wanted every character to be gay or Bi. However, the Commander female was indeed able to be a lesbian in the first game. If they intender her to not be a lesbian, they shouldn't have allowed it in the first place.

I am mourning the loss of something that they had in there from the start. I understand that the character sin the second game might not have fit but if Liara is indeed in the third, there will be no excuse for removing her romantic storyline.

 

[SamSandy]

Some of the comments make it sound like there really is a gay or bi character in every other game. Newsflash: there isn't. It's still exceedingly rare.

My personal opinion as a gay man is that if the player character is a "blank slate" with no personality, and there are several romance options for him/her, then there definitely should be a gay/lesbian option, just like there should be an option to change the gender and skin color etc. It's not just about pleasing minorities, it's about acknowledging the fact that white straight men are just a minority as well. Looking at games, the vast majority of them have a white straight man as the PC.

So I really don't understand this whining on how "equal rights movements have gone too far", when it's obviously not the case. I'm aware that Planet Earth will never be a place where all humans have equal rights and possibilities in life, but that doesn't mean we can't try our damnest to make it so.

Videogames is just one of the fields that's governed by the minority that mistakenly believes they're the majority. Other minorities deserve a little screentime as well. ;P

 

[Daipire]

I wanna boink a Krogan, dammit! XD

Don't they have 4 willies, or was it four gonads?

 

[Amund]

"There seems to some subtext there that no one is saying, namely that the inclusion of actual homosexual relationships might hurt sales,"

But:

a) They had no problems with that with Dragon Age

b) Really? Couldn't you then say that about there being a black character (let's face it, racism and homophobia generally seem to go in hand)?

While those two traits can be shared by the same person, homophobia is more widely accepted then racism. This means that should there be same sex coupling in a major game such as Mass Effect, various right wing media outlets would use this as part of their side of the crusade against video games. Thus a lot of right wing parents wouldn't buy it for little Timmy or Tina. The right wing couldn't use racism in this case to hurt game sales.

Does that make sense?

 

[Amund]

Or if you cut out the BS, they didn't want to alienate the huge, homophobic demographic that makes up about 95% of the 360 audience.

So true, why can't they just say that? I'd be happy with that answer.

 

[Amund]

I think Casey Hudson's answer sounds a lot more reasonable. Video Games, especially in the current generation, have always borrowed heavily from movies, so building a game like "a PG-13 movie" sounds a lot more understandable to me.
[small](it also explains why there's no actual nudity in these games)[/small]

I find Muzyka's answer a little bit puzzling. The Mass Effect series has always had this "build-your-own-adventure" vibe; in theory, Shepard should be the players' concept, not the game designers'.

I have a problem with both of their responses. Muzyka's for the same reason as you gave. But I also disagree with Hudson's on the grounds that it seems to imply that a homosexual relationship is somehow inherently more explicit than a heterosexual one, and that simply is not the case. I certainly did not expect this kind of attitude from Bioware, considering they've usually catered to other sexualities besides heterosexuals in their other games.

The next good question being why, in a society that is supposedly accepting of homosexuality, a heterosexual relationship is "PG-13" while a homosexual relationship gets a higher age rating. The implication is of course that a homosexual relationship is somehow "dirtier", or more likely to warp your poor little child's mind if he's exposed to it. Which is fairly obviously homophobic. Of course, this is straying a bit off topic, since it's a societal problem, not Bioware's fault. But I still find that justification a little weak. It still boils down to "we don't want to offend the homophobic sensibilities of our consumers".

I have an answer for both of you, and trust me, it's not that Bioware is homophobic or anything. Actually, the answer for why homosexual relations are considered "R-Rated" while heterosexual relations are "PG-13" is actually a lot more innocent than it might seem (and I'm only saying this because [A: I don't want anyone to think Bioware is homophobic] and [B: I learned a little bit about this stuff in college])

Long story short, it's all in the positioning. Simply put, homosexual relations usually involve a position that, while perfectly normal for homosexual couples, is a little too graphic for general audiences. Take from that, what you will.

You obviously don't know how gay men have sex.

The sex scenes in Mass Effect two, were little more then make out scenes. Gay men have make out scenes as well.

 

[cobaltfram]

Things like this are the reason I have given up all hope for the video game medium; no companies will have the courage to treat my sexual orientation as something normal and unshocking, and I will be denied the ability to see the relationships I live out in my real life reflected on the lives I am playing.

I'm being hyperbolic here, I know. But the fact that Bioware would somehow think that a male Shepard exchanging a tender kiss with a male character, and fading to black, is somehow more shocking, vulgar, or explicit than doing the same with a female character, disappoints me immensely, ESPECIALLY when their game already has an M rating.

 

[Woodsey]

I think Casey Hudson's answer sounds a lot more reasonable. Video Games, especially in the current generation, have always borrowed heavily from movies, so building a game like "a PG-13 movie" sounds a lot more understandable to me.
[small](it also explains why there's no actual nudity in these games)[/small]

I find Muzyka's answer a little bit puzzling. The Mass Effect series has always had this "build-your-own-adventure" vibe; in theory, Shepard should be the players' concept, not the game designers'.

I have a problem with both of their responses. Muzyka's for the same reason as you gave. But I also disagree with Hudson's on the grounds that it seems to imply that a homosexual relationship is somehow inherently more explicit than a heterosexual one, and that simply is not the case. I certainly did not expect this kind of attitude from Bioware, considering they've usually catered to other sexualities besides heterosexuals in their other games.

The next good question being why, in a society that is supposedly accepting of homosexuality, a heterosexual relationship is "PG-13" while a homosexual relationship gets a higher age rating. The implication is of course that a homosexual relationship is somehow "dirtier", or more likely to warp your poor little child's mind if he's exposed to it. Which is fairly obviously homophobic. Of course, this is straying a bit off topic, since it's a societal problem, not Bioware's fault. But I still find that justification a little weak. It still boils down to "we don't want to offend the homophobic sensibilities of our consumers".

I have an answer for both of you, and trust me, it's not that Bioware is homophobic or anything. Actually, the answer for why homosexual relations are considered "R-Rated" while heterosexual relations are "PG-13" is actually a lot more innocent than it might seem (and I'm only saying this because [A: I don't want anyone to think Bioware is homophobic] and [B: I learned a little bit about this stuff in college])

Long story short, it's all in the positioning. Simply put, homosexual relations usually involve a position that, while perfectly normal for homosexual couples, is a little too graphic for general audiences. Take from that, what you will.

Oh come on, that can't be the reasoning.

It's perfectly normal for a hetero couple to go in "backwards" (even if they're not using the actual back door).

 

[NeoNexus]

I honestly don't really understand what the problem is here. It's a case of damned if you do damned if you don't. Bioware as a company proved in Dragon Age Orgins that they aren't homophobic in any way, and in all likeliness somebody would be out commenting on it if there was a homosexual option in the game. It's a bit redundant to argue about in my opinion. There comes a point where you just give mixed signals cause no matter what somebody is going to be left out and that person is going to be mad or confused. It's a well known fact you can't please everybody.

I'm just curious, since I have a feeling nobody would even be thinking about this if it wasn't for Dragon Age. Maybe I'm wrong though. Not like I can run a "what if" simulation or something, although that would be awesome.

 

[likalaruku]

Excuses excuses..... Don't they know that 50% of female geeks will buy ANYTHING that promises guy-on-guy?

 

[Megawizard]

I wanna boink a Krogan, dammit! XD

Don't they have 4 willies, or was it four gonads?

Testiclats. "10,000 apiece; that's 40,000 for a whole set." -Garrus

 

[The Thief]

It's their game, so they can do what they want with it; I don't see the problem. Male Shep was not homosexual in Mass Effect 1, and this has remained the same for Mass Effect 2 (Though really, you could still choose to be homosexual, you just can't pursue homosexual relationships). Female Shep can still be a lesbian in Mass Effect 2, there's just no real relationships or "sex" scenes (if you can even call them that). Just because BioWare was awesome enough to go every which way with relationships in Dragon Age, it doesn't mean that every game from now on must have every relationship option available as well.

Other game dev's don't get any heat for having exclusively heterosexual characters in their games, so why are people attacking BioWare? It doesn't make sense to me.

Besides, there is always Rule 34; I'm sure you can find Mass Effect pornography on the interweb, if that's all you're interested in.

 

[Labcoat Samurai]

I also disagree with Hudson's on the grounds that it seems to imply that a homosexual relationship is somehow inherently more explicit than a heterosexual one, and that simply is not the case. I certainly did not expect this kind of attitude from Bioware, considering they've usually catered to other sexualities besides heterosexuals in their other games.

This. I love Bioware, I love what they did with Mass Effect 1 and 2, and I have a lot of respect for Casey Hudson, but his answer is bullshit. I've defended Mass Effect on this score multiple times by simply saying that none of the NPCs happen to be gay. Why can't you sleep with Kaidan as a male Shepard? Because Kaidan isn't gay. If we had an exclusively gay character, I suspect homosexuals would be disappointed if a hetero relationship were shoehorned in. And there's no reason why we shouldn't have exclusively gay characters... Mass Effect just *doesn't* and we shouldn't have to check off some diversity checklist any time we write a story. There's no black party member in ME1 either.

But Hudson's answer is complete nonsense. It's insulting to homosexuals to tell them that their relationships are somehow nastier or less acceptable than heterosexual ones. I don't give a flying shit if the populace is close-minded enough to think that way, I expect better from Bioware.