Bioware needs to revert years of work

[Duster]

I really dislike the direction that bioware is going in.

When I was newer to rpgs I thought that companions where awesome and that rpgs should be all about them, but I really take that back. Most of companions should be made by modders who have no professional obligations/need to politically correct.

Yeah the movement towards companions began long ago and some games, such as kotor 2 and BG2 have companions and are classics, but I feel when you make a game from the ground up around companions it doesn't work well, and that seems to be the approach these days.

 

[tippy2k2]

...what?

Bioware has always done the companion thing. Them having companions in all their games isn't a new direction; it's the direction they've always been heading in.

I don't know if you have an ax to grind and are just being passive aggressive about it ("no need to be politically correct") or if you're just not being very clear. What is Bioware doing with their games that you are displeased with?

 

[bluepotatosack]

Is them including homosexual relationships the "need to be politically correct"? I'm kind of confused about that one.

 

[Duster]

...what?

Bioware has always done the companion thing. Them having companions in all their games isn't a new direction; it's the direction they've always been heading in.

Op was fairly clear on that

-Yeah the movement towards companions began long ago and some games, such as kotor 2 and BG2 have companions and are classics.
-but I feel when you make a game from the ground up around companions it doesn't work well, and that seems to be the approach these days.

They stated somewhat recently that their fans are clamoring for deeper companionship and so they oblige themselves, and I don't feel it's panning out well.

Is them including homosexual relationships the "need to be politically correct"? I'm kind of confused about that one.

Yes, considering politics in the last 5 years.

 

[tippy2k2]

...what?

Bioware has always done the companion thing. Them having companions in all their games isn't a new direction; it's the direction they've always been heading in.

Op was fairly clear on that

-Yeah the movement towards companions began long ago and some games, such as kotor 2 and BG2 have companions and are classics.
-but I feel when you make a game from the ground up around companions it doesn't work well, and that seems to be the approach these days.

They stated somewhat recently that their fans are clamoring for deeper companionship and so they oblige themselves, and I don't feel it's panning out well.

Well I disagree that it's clear.

WHAT exactly is the problem? What differences are there between the companions of Jade Empire and the companions of Mass Effect? WHY is Bioware's "new" direction with their companions a problem for you?

You can't just say "I don't like it, it's obviously bad!". Well...I suppose you could but you're not making a very compelling argument.

 

[Duster]

I mean, how dare Bioware include major characters that have sexual tastes that dont match your own in their games.

~But i'm gay~

Free argument winning statement aside, I argued earlier with a gentleman that any form of sexuality doesn't contribute much to video games.

I mean it can be a wonderful narrative hook, and I used to sit through hours of inane yuri anime just waiting to see them kiss eachother, but when you have really cool concepts coming out from games like Homeworld and Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura, I don't feel that games ever should be depending on sexuality to hook players.

You can't just say "I don't like it, it's obviously bad!". Well...I suppose you could but you're not making a very compelling argument.

I suppose I should've presented more videos and comparisons. It's ten now so i'll just remake this thread eventually with some actual specific points.

 

[DoPo]

Most of companions should be made by modders who have no professional obligations/need to politically correct.

Is them including homosexual relationships the "need to be politically correct"? I'm kind of confused about that one.

Yes, considering politics in the last 5 years.

So, you're saying that companions should be made by people who would not be "obliged" to make them homosexual. In other words, you just said that all companions should be made straight, if I'm reading that correctly.

...

I can't think of anything else to say at the moment.

 

[Duster]

So, you're saying that companions should be made by people who would not be "obliged" to make them homosexual. In other words, you just said that all companions should be made straight, if I'm reading that correctly.

Ah dopo, my old arch nemesis

No, you are not reading that correctly. I'm saying that the people who are obliged to make them homosexual should not be obliged to make them sexual at all.

I can't think of anything else to say at the moment.

i'm sure you'll come up with something.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Bioware needs to hire someone who can write actual romances. The stuff I've seen from Inquisition all looks awfully childish. Not everything needs to be innuendo! And for god's sakes, the "hide the sausage" camera shots are just awkward.

At least it isn't as bad as the "let's fuck in the middle of camp while Sten watches" scenes from Origins.

 

[Elfgore]

At least it isn't as bad as the "let's fuck in the middle of camp while Sten watches" scenes from Origins.

Thank you for that image! I just imagined my Warden walking around the camp telling people to "fuck off" so he can get his freak on with Morrigan.

I think I get what you're saying, you just worded it in a very weird way. You want to return to a point when the sexual orientation of a companion didn't matter, because you were never nothing more than companions. It doesn't matter if they're straight or gay, they don't have sex. Though I disagree, I could see some benefits coming from it.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

At least it isn't as bad as the "let's fuck in the middle of camp while Sten watches" scenes from Origins.

Thank you for that image! I just imagined my Warden walking around the camp telling people to "fuck off" so he can get his freak on with Morrigan.

I think I get what you're saying, you just worded it in a very weird way. You want to return to a point when the sexual orientation of a companion didn't matter, because you were never nothing more than companions. It doesn't matter if they're straight or gay, they don't have sex. Though I disagree, I could see some benefits coming from it.

Was that last part directed at me or the OP? Because I certainly don't think that romance is a bad thing, per se. Just that it should be handled better than the way Bioware currently does it.

 

[Elfgore]

At least it isn't as bad as the "let's fuck in the middle of camp while Sten watches" scenes from Origins.

Thank you for that image! I just imagined my Warden walking around the camp telling people to "fuck off" so he can get his freak on with Morrigan.

I think I get what you're saying, you just worded it in a very weird way. You want to return to a point when the sexual orientation of a companion didn't matter, because you were never nothing more than companions. It doesn't matter if they're straight or gay, they don't have sex. Though I disagree, I could see some benefits coming from it.

Was that last part directed at me or the OP? Because I certainly don't think that romance is a bad thing, per se. Just that it should be handled better than the way Bioware currently does it.

Nah, just the top part. The boring serious part is towards the OP.

 

[NemotheElvenPanda]

I really don't see the problem here. The only issue I had with the companions in Inquisition is the same I had in DA2; you couldn't talk to them whenever and wherever you wanted. Now I have to wait for a special cutscene to know that I can get to know them better when I'm far enough in the game, rather than use the old like/dislike or friend/rival meter to gauge how close my characters is with them. Personality and romance wise, I think they're all great. I especially like Iron Bull; it's nice to have a gay option that isn't a walking stereotype or wangst-machine for once.

 

[Saetha]

I, uh, okay? What is... can you... what? I haven't played Inquisition yet, but I haven't had a problem with the companions in BioWare games recently. Well, there was DA2, but I think that was less BioWare being bad and more BioWare being rushed by EA.

I don't feel that games ever should be depending on sexuality to hook players.

That being said, I do kinda agree with this. If the biggest draw to your game (Or any of the characters therein) is "They aren't straight white guys," then maybe you need to rethink your strategy. Good characters aren't defined by arbitrary values like sexuality or race, and you can't substitute those qualities for good writing. Unfortunately a lot of people nowadays seem to be forgetting that, and will jump on any AAA release if you change only one of the words in the phrase "straight white guy."

But I'm not sure that's something BioWare really indulges in. I think most of that actually comes from the fans, who will ignore the more unique aspects of a character to go "Look! A gay black guy!" like they're a goddamn zoo exhibit.

Or maybe that's just the DA community on Tumblr.

 

[Zhukov]

If you're after non-party RPGs then why the hell would you even be looking at Bioware? Why would you even be thinking about them?

That's basically everything they do. Have they ever made anything but party-based RPGs?

It's like buying a Platinum game and saying it should an RTS instead of a brawler.

Try the Witcher games or something.

 

[Ambient_Malice]

The entire Bioware social interaction model needs to be rethought. Especially since they're trying so desperately to incorporate a range of DEEP and MEANINGFUL sexual relationships/romances into their titles.

Their fans suck it up, but the end result is still a poorly disguised "click here to fall in love/click here to fall more in love/click here to make waifu/click here to shag" flowchart. When combined with Bioware's companion writing, the whole thing feels so-so. But ultimately it sells, and it's apparently what the fans want.

As for the political content in Bioware games, I would suggest that Bioware created a problem when their writers started expressing their own opinions a bit too strongly. Also, blatant pandering. A good example would be Mass Effect's Asari, and the wacky way homosexuality was retconned into the universe despite Bioware flat-out stating they didn't want to put gay relationships in ME previously. Asari were "monogendered", and then that was wibbly-wobbly fudged in later games. And when Bioware writers started waxing lyrical about how wonderful it would be to live in a world where gender doesn't matter, I think some people felt a bit put out.

Frankly, Bioware can do whatever the hell the want in that department, but there was a definite sense that Bioware was no longer following their own plan and was instead pandering to a portion of their fanbase obsessed with shipping.

Myself, I was always bemused by how Mass Effect 2/3 glossed over the fact sex with aliens is kinda... bestiality. AFAIK, there isn't a single human character in the ME universe who points this out. (I never read the novels, though.)

 

[Redryhno]

snip

I think alot of it comes from the "Old Guard" Bioware moving on or retiring myself. The Bioware I grew up with is not the Bioware of the last few years.

Now, saying that, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, but the last few games of theirs has had a character's sexuality put forth first in alot of the marketing and your first interactions with them before what makes them a person. Before someone tries sniping, I am not saying a character's sexual orientation doesn't contribute to their personality, but putting that first sacrifices alot of a character's potential and they become a walking fuck-toy/shipping fuel. Well, that and Freddie Prinze Jr., for some reason I've been a fan of his since I was a kid, not exactly sure why.

But c'mon, I will take Anomen alone over half the Bioware main characters they've put out since circa 2010. He was a self-righteous ass that never shut up, and his personal sidequest was some of the worst written stuff they'd had at that point in time, but at least he was a character first, straight guy second.

 

[UltimaeFanBoy]

I say they need the companions.

Take Dragon Quest 9 for example:You'd get wrecked if you didn't have four members.

I honestly like BioWare's companions. They're interesting, they look like they fight good (never played a BW game), and more.