Remember Bioware? Those guys made some of the modern classics of the RPG genre. Baldur's Gate, KotoR, Neverwinter Nights etc. What happened to them?
In another thread I read that people bitched about DA:O's old school combat approach, so logically they had to make the combat more action oriented. And people still *****, even more so. It's not that gamers are whiny primadonnas that can't be pleased. No, this is Bioware's fault 100%. To me, this is another sign that Bioware is losing its edge. Since when is Bioware so headless and submissive to just simply throw in features that players call for without taking a step back to see if the changes work for the game, and contribute to reaching the vision for it?
Because that's, you know, the JOB of a game designer.
And is the cooperation with EA turning Bioware into an oppressive company that bans legitimate customers from playing their games simply for badmouthing them?
Generally I found myself liking Bioware RPGs less and less over the years. Ever since Baldur's Gate 2 did they start decreasing the scope of their games, actionifying the combat systems in them until the games they produce became a mockery of the games they used to make.
Bioware, just admit you aren't able to make games anymore like you used to. Admit that all you're trying to do is get the greatest common denominator of gamers to buy your games so that you can make more money. You obviously don't know anymore how to make a deep and epic RPG, because you're so misguided about the things that make them great. If you just concede this and move on to making semi-linear action games with good stories, that's okay. I liked Mass Effect 2.
EDIT:
I did not expect this strong a reaction. I'm sorry if there were tons of Bioware flaming threads recently. I haven't actually been reading those, I wasn't aware this would annoy so many people. Also, I'm afraid that I just have explained my view very poorly. Some people misunderstood what I actually meant with some of the things written. One thing first:
If you are annoyed by all the Bioware/DA2 hate recently, you don't have to participate you know?
Then I want to say I didn't know that the 2 bans were accidents. I didn't research that story properly, only heard about it fleetingly. This is actually what pissed me off in the first place to start off the rant. But that anger is misplaced. I'm relieved they didn't actually do that deliberately.
So let me clarify my disposition:
I actually really like Bioware. I never said that they are a total bullshit company. I like their recent games. I never actually hated on them, but people read and notice that I criticize Bioware, so OBVIOUSLY I must be a hater of Dragon Age. I'm not. Really. I never was. That's just a prejudice you project onto me. Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Jade Empire and so forth are fun games. Even DA2, as many people point out, would be an amazing game for most other companies to release.
Also, I'm not a hopeless nostalgic. Yes, I love their older games. They have qualities that still hold up to this day. If that makes me more of an old-school gamer, then okay, I admit I'm an old-school gamer. You don't have to like the old-school style obviously, just as much as I don't have to like the newer style. We can agree to be different. That's totally fine. I'm not ranting about "TEH FCKIN CONSOL KIDDYS", even though that's what many immediately think I'm doing.
Apart from this, I absolutely am aware that Bioware doesn't owe me shit and they are a company, and as such they need to make profitable games. I realize that. I don't necessarily like it, but I accept that that's the reality of things.
Okay, now to my original post:
I mean that Bioware has brought the wave of criticism for DA2 onto themselves. It's not that gamers are the whiny bitches that just wont be pleased. AGAIN LET ME REITERATE, I AM NOT HATING ON DRAGON AGE 2. Bioware is at fault for this thing themselves. Sure, there's always going to be people that are going to hate on your game. But I feel like they weren't completely honest about the game. They market the first game as the "spiritual successor" of Baldur's Gate. I'm not saying that DA1 totally failed at that. Sure, I personally don't think it deserves to be called it's true spiritual successor, but okay, the game is decidedly old-school. There were always going to be people who would moan about the slow combat, people who just don't like that, just like I don't like cover shooters as much myself. That's differing opinions. But by basically promising the old-school gamers that they're striving to revive previously discarded gameplay tropes with this game, they betrayed the original vision in giving in to the complaints of the non-old-school gamers, basically letting the gamers down who they were marketing the game to with the first game. Here's where my doubt comes in that there is like one designer who really works hard to make the core vision reality. That the design should change as to accommodate the greatest common denominator doesn't really speak for that. the As in one of the links shown, Bioware wants to tap the CoD demograpic. It's disappointing, but that's how business works. It makes me sad, it made me rant.
Imagine it like this: you're playing this sports game. It's a really well designed game, you love how deep the gameplay is. The game is generally really hard to get into and really challenging at first, with tons of nuances to learn. But once you got them down, it's a joy, because it's really rewarding to win matches. Over the years, the company decides that the usual fans will obviously always keep on buying the games. It's time to widen the audience. In order to do that, the controls and everything need to be made simpler and easier to learn. The game becomes better in some areas, but it's a trade-off, and the game consequently becomes actually worse in your opinion. Suddenly there's more people enjoying the game. But it's not as rewarding for you anymore. It's not moving forward in the direction you wanted it to go, as you were looking for an even more realistic gameplay in the sequels. But money speaks loudest, the company doesn't care who pays the dollars to them as long as they're getting more of it. That's roughly the situation old-school RPG gamers are in.
Bioware is moving RPGs forward, just not in the direction I and many others like. You could say they're getting mainstream, it's no news actually. But it really sucks for their old audience who were looking forward to a future that didn't arrive.
I get flamed for being too demanding and so on. Well, Bioware happens to be one of the only companies that mainly does RPGs today. It's misplaced, but emotionally if feel as if I have a right to demand.
Bioware will still be successful without their old hardcore fanbase and that's good for them. Probably that's the only way they didn't go bankrupt. I still mourn over Troika and co. So I guess it's best if Bioware goes the path they are going.
I then got flamed for whining but not clarifying what this other direction is exactly that I speak of. I criticize RPG companies today for not pushing the envelope of what is possible gameplay-wise in RPGs. 20 years ago Origin made Ultima 7, a game that had truly pushed the boundaries of what was possible. They were brave and took risks, because they had vision. Role-playing is as I see it about interacting with a world, with NPCs and being allowed to make meaningful choices as you think your character would do. CRPGs were always going to be inferior in that aspect than table-top RPGs simply for the lack of a DM (I'm not counting in Neverwinter Nights multiplayer). So, we had to make do with scripted campaigns. This is what all the previous RPGs did. Baldur's Gate did it. Ultima did it. Dragon Age does it. Nobody really took the risk to actually develop things further.
Matt Barton from Matt Chat said an interesting thing on his review of Rogue and its derivatives. He said that often computer games miss out on the point of the computer. It's to compute. Why create a dungeon that will always be the same if you can make a procedurally generated one which will always have a different layout? Making all this content companies are doing today by hand is in many instances a huge waste of time and energy. This is a something that many feel different about, I know. I don't want ALL games to be procedurally generated, by god no. But it saddens me that apparently only the Dwarf Fortress guy really looked into that more. For RPGs, procedural generation could be HUGE. Imagine procedurally generated quests and entire game worlds.
Also, AI is so important. Today as back then, NPCs are basically just there to make you feel less lonely and to give you quests. That's nothing like what people really do. Sophisticated AI that reacts to its environment and player actions would be HUGE for RPGs. It would allow for SO MUCH MORE roleplaying potential in games. Yet no RPG company had the balls (or chance) to push things forward in that space. No movement at all. I want these developments to happen, and Bioware having been my favorite company, one I huge respect still today, I sort of put my hopes into them to work on this potential. It seems I was wrong.
And I'm not just a whiny primadonna. I'm actually teaching myself game programming. I want to make that RPG if nobody else is going to. I am nowhere near an alpha even, but I'm actively working towards it. Check my blog http://thedolgion.com if you want to take a look.
Anyways, I'm sorry if this rant pissed people off. I was at fault for not being clear enough. I certainly didn't try to troll anybody. Hope this makes my disposition clear enough now.
In another thread I read that people bitched about DA:O's old school combat approach, so logically they had to make the combat more action oriented. And people still *****, even more so. It's not that gamers are whiny primadonnas that can't be pleased. No, this is Bioware's fault 100%. To me, this is another sign that Bioware is losing its edge. Since when is Bioware so headless and submissive to just simply throw in features that players call for without taking a step back to see if the changes work for the game, and contribute to reaching the vision for it?
Because that's, you know, the JOB of a game designer.
And is the cooperation with EA turning Bioware into an oppressive company that bans legitimate customers from playing their games simply for badmouthing them?
Generally I found myself liking Bioware RPGs less and less over the years. Ever since Baldur's Gate 2 did they start decreasing the scope of their games, actionifying the combat systems in them until the games they produce became a mockery of the games they used to make.
Bioware, just admit you aren't able to make games anymore like you used to. Admit that all you're trying to do is get the greatest common denominator of gamers to buy your games so that you can make more money. You obviously don't know anymore how to make a deep and epic RPG, because you're so misguided about the things that make them great. If you just concede this and move on to making semi-linear action games with good stories, that's okay. I liked Mass Effect 2.
EDIT:
I did not expect this strong a reaction. I'm sorry if there were tons of Bioware flaming threads recently. I haven't actually been reading those, I wasn't aware this would annoy so many people. Also, I'm afraid that I just have explained my view very poorly. Some people misunderstood what I actually meant with some of the things written. One thing first:
If you are annoyed by all the Bioware/DA2 hate recently, you don't have to participate you know?
Then I want to say I didn't know that the 2 bans were accidents. I didn't research that story properly, only heard about it fleetingly. This is actually what pissed me off in the first place to start off the rant. But that anger is misplaced. I'm relieved they didn't actually do that deliberately.
So let me clarify my disposition:
I actually really like Bioware. I never said that they are a total bullshit company. I like their recent games. I never actually hated on them, but people read and notice that I criticize Bioware, so OBVIOUSLY I must be a hater of Dragon Age. I'm not. Really. I never was. That's just a prejudice you project onto me. Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Jade Empire and so forth are fun games. Even DA2, as many people point out, would be an amazing game for most other companies to release.
Also, I'm not a hopeless nostalgic. Yes, I love their older games. They have qualities that still hold up to this day. If that makes me more of an old-school gamer, then okay, I admit I'm an old-school gamer. You don't have to like the old-school style obviously, just as much as I don't have to like the newer style. We can agree to be different. That's totally fine. I'm not ranting about "TEH FCKIN CONSOL KIDDYS", even though that's what many immediately think I'm doing.
Apart from this, I absolutely am aware that Bioware doesn't owe me shit and they are a company, and as such they need to make profitable games. I realize that. I don't necessarily like it, but I accept that that's the reality of things.
Okay, now to my original post:
I mean that Bioware has brought the wave of criticism for DA2 onto themselves. It's not that gamers are the whiny bitches that just wont be pleased. AGAIN LET ME REITERATE, I AM NOT HATING ON DRAGON AGE 2. Bioware is at fault for this thing themselves. Sure, there's always going to be people that are going to hate on your game. But I feel like they weren't completely honest about the game. They market the first game as the "spiritual successor" of Baldur's Gate. I'm not saying that DA1 totally failed at that. Sure, I personally don't think it deserves to be called it's true spiritual successor, but okay, the game is decidedly old-school. There were always going to be people who would moan about the slow combat, people who just don't like that, just like I don't like cover shooters as much myself. That's differing opinions. But by basically promising the old-school gamers that they're striving to revive previously discarded gameplay tropes with this game, they betrayed the original vision in giving in to the complaints of the non-old-school gamers, basically letting the gamers down who they were marketing the game to with the first game. Here's where my doubt comes in that there is like one designer who really works hard to make the core vision reality. That the design should change as to accommodate the greatest common denominator doesn't really speak for that. the As in one of the links shown, Bioware wants to tap the CoD demograpic. It's disappointing, but that's how business works. It makes me sad, it made me rant.
Imagine it like this: you're playing this sports game. It's a really well designed game, you love how deep the gameplay is. The game is generally really hard to get into and really challenging at first, with tons of nuances to learn. But once you got them down, it's a joy, because it's really rewarding to win matches. Over the years, the company decides that the usual fans will obviously always keep on buying the games. It's time to widen the audience. In order to do that, the controls and everything need to be made simpler and easier to learn. The game becomes better in some areas, but it's a trade-off, and the game consequently becomes actually worse in your opinion. Suddenly there's more people enjoying the game. But it's not as rewarding for you anymore. It's not moving forward in the direction you wanted it to go, as you were looking for an even more realistic gameplay in the sequels. But money speaks loudest, the company doesn't care who pays the dollars to them as long as they're getting more of it. That's roughly the situation old-school RPG gamers are in.
Bioware is moving RPGs forward, just not in the direction I and many others like. You could say they're getting mainstream, it's no news actually. But it really sucks for their old audience who were looking forward to a future that didn't arrive.
I get flamed for being too demanding and so on. Well, Bioware happens to be one of the only companies that mainly does RPGs today. It's misplaced, but emotionally if feel as if I have a right to demand.
Bioware will still be successful without their old hardcore fanbase and that's good for them. Probably that's the only way they didn't go bankrupt. I still mourn over Troika and co. So I guess it's best if Bioware goes the path they are going.
I then got flamed for whining but not clarifying what this other direction is exactly that I speak of. I criticize RPG companies today for not pushing the envelope of what is possible gameplay-wise in RPGs. 20 years ago Origin made Ultima 7, a game that had truly pushed the boundaries of what was possible. They were brave and took risks, because they had vision. Role-playing is as I see it about interacting with a world, with NPCs and being allowed to make meaningful choices as you think your character would do. CRPGs were always going to be inferior in that aspect than table-top RPGs simply for the lack of a DM (I'm not counting in Neverwinter Nights multiplayer). So, we had to make do with scripted campaigns. This is what all the previous RPGs did. Baldur's Gate did it. Ultima did it. Dragon Age does it. Nobody really took the risk to actually develop things further.
Matt Barton from Matt Chat said an interesting thing on his review of Rogue and its derivatives. He said that often computer games miss out on the point of the computer. It's to compute. Why create a dungeon that will always be the same if you can make a procedurally generated one which will always have a different layout? Making all this content companies are doing today by hand is in many instances a huge waste of time and energy. This is a something that many feel different about, I know. I don't want ALL games to be procedurally generated, by god no. But it saddens me that apparently only the Dwarf Fortress guy really looked into that more. For RPGs, procedural generation could be HUGE. Imagine procedurally generated quests and entire game worlds.
Also, AI is so important. Today as back then, NPCs are basically just there to make you feel less lonely and to give you quests. That's nothing like what people really do. Sophisticated AI that reacts to its environment and player actions would be HUGE for RPGs. It would allow for SO MUCH MORE roleplaying potential in games. Yet no RPG company had the balls (or chance) to push things forward in that space. No movement at all. I want these developments to happen, and Bioware having been my favorite company, one I huge respect still today, I sort of put my hopes into them to work on this potential. It seems I was wrong.
And I'm not just a whiny primadonna. I'm actually teaching myself game programming. I want to make that RPG if nobody else is going to. I am nowhere near an alpha even, but I'm actively working towards it. Check my blog http://thedolgion.com if you want to take a look.
Anyways, I'm sorry if this rant pissed people off. I was at fault for not being clear enough. I certainly didn't try to troll anybody. Hope this makes my disposition clear enough now.
