BioWare Supports Beleaguered Writer

[Andy Chalk]

At the risk of getting a warning, given your status, am I to assume that that attitude that you uphold is supported by the rest of the Escapist employees? I truly hope that is not the case, and that you/your company are more professional than that.

I don't know why you'd think you'd get a warning for asking. I also don't know why you'd find it so outrageous that I think that sometimes the most egregious of assholes need to be dismissed out of hand. Don't come into my business, shit on my floor and then start squealing about "professionalism" when I throw your ass out.

I don't see how that's at all unreasonable, but as for how everyone else feels about it, you'd have to ask them.

 

[Frankster]

Glorious Snip

That post is just beautiful and closest thing I read to a genuinely unbiased overview of the situation.

Shame it's probably gonna be ignored due to it not fitting with the overall feel of the thread that is "its those fucking entitled trolls harassing poor bioware writer, to arms!".

buying her book is the biggest FU i can give to all the mindless little scumbags

Even bigger FU would be to buy the book and then saying you liked it (after having read it of course, no cheating!).

 

[sifffffff]

Ok, I'm not going to address your poor attitude any further, seeing how your responding in such a immature manner.

I don't think I have a poor attitude. The way I see it this is an issue where there is a very crystal clear right and wrong.

The gist I seem to be getting from most of your posts is that you don't think Ms. Hepler and her coworker should have stooped to the level of the "trolls." That they should just sit back and take it.

I disagree with you about this. In the past few years these kinds of incidents have been happening more and more. I don't think developers, employees of developers and editors of game sites should sit back and take it anymore.

The fact that they were insulting her on her personal twitter means she can respond in a personal manner. The dude who called one of them a "fucking moron" was spot on. I don't get why the "professionals" need to hide behind political correctness. These people are being fucking morons. They absolutely deserve to be publicly labled as such.

I'm sorry if I approached you with attitude at first. You stuck up for somebody who brings very little to this forum (if you look at his health meter you'd see) and it pissed me off.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

At the risk of getting a warning, given your status, am I to assume that that attitude that you uphold is supported by the rest of the Escapist employees? I truly hope that is not the case, and that you/your company are more professional than that.

I don't know why you'd think you'd get a warning for asking. I also don't know why you'd find it so outrageous that I think that sometimes the most egregious of assholes need to be dismissed out of hand. Don't come into my business, shit on my floor and then start squealing about "professionalism" when I throw your ass out.

I don't see how that's at all unreasonable, but as for how everyone else feels about it, you'd have to ask them.

He seems to think that customers can just say what the hell they like to professionals and they have to stoically take it and act like they are Jesus or a Jedi or something.

If I argue with you over sexism in The Witcher for example I expect for you to say exactly what you think and not mince around the issue for fear of losing a subscriber.

If I insult someone I accept that they will insult me back, unless they are a PR rep and Penny Arcade is watching.

 

[Andy Chalk]

Okay guys, to try to bring things back on track for a wrap-up (because at this point I think we've pretty much said all there is to say), lemme just clarify why I've been hammering the same point over and over again, because a lot of people have obviously missed what this is all about.

First off, I didn't like Dragon Age: Origins. It wasn't terrible, it was just flat and generic, with dull, repetitive gameplay and characters that never raised themselves above boring archetypes. I finished it, but it left me so unimpressed that I never bothered with either Awakenings or Dragon Age 2. I'm also one of those guys who thinks the "BioWare Magic" is gone, replaced by ambitious overreach and an EA Studios label.

But none of that matters, because that's not what's at issue. This is about nothing more and nothing less than the fact that an employee of BioWare expressed a perfectly valid opinion about videogames and was then brutally, viciously and relentlessly excoriated for it by a significant number of "gamers." That is unacceptable, it is inexcusable, and for the larger "gaming community" as a whole, it is an embarrassment. Full stop.

Discussions about BioWare, Dragon Age, Hepler's contributions to both and other such things belong elsewhere, in threads where we're not calling people horrible names and encouraging them to commit suicide. Those may be conversations worth having, but they're not the conversation we're having here. Here, we are saying, without qualification, that Hepler's treatment was abhorrent and cannot in any way be justified.

I can't put it any simpler than that, and I have absolutely zero interesting in "debating" the matter further. If you have a problem with that sentiment, you know where the door is.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

I don't know why you'd think you'd get a warning for asking.

To be honest, I wasn't sure if there were some unwritten rules about what we can and can not say to you guys since your staff members. I've seen a couple people be overly critical about this site, and it resulted in them getting banned, so tbh I was a little concerned about the mod response might be to me responding to you. Moving on...

I also don't know why you'd find it so outrageous that I think that sometimes the most egregious of assholes need to be dismissed out of hand. Don't come into my business, shit on my floor and then start squealing about "professionalism" when I throw your ass out.

I don't see how that's at all unreasonable, but as for how everyone else feels about it, you'd have to ask them.

Given that you are a staff member, I think there is a certain level of professionalism that is expected of you when you engage the Escapist community. For example, I think I have seen two threads lately about people who seem to hate MovieBob, and presumably out of an act of professionalism, I have not seen the man engage these people. I don't think it's asking to much to expect the same from you and your staff.

Would you not bite your tongue, if you went on a business trip as a representative of the Escapist to meet a potential client that wanted to invest heavily in the Escapist website? I would think that you would act in a professional manner towards this potential client(even if they made some off color comments), no?

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

The examples you gave do nothing to disprove my point though do they. People are accepting of hot girls who know nothing about gaming or the industry while a chubby woman whose job isn't even to comment or design the gameplay is called out for it. She was at least honest with what she thought.

Yes they do, because these women proof that you don't need to be a model to be a respect part of the gaming industry and that there ARE women who are part of the gaming industry that actually have a major impact on it. You make it sound as if only pretty women who are ignorant of games, are the ones that are aloud to comment on the gaming industry and that simply is not true.

I have never read her writing but I have played the Anders romance which she reputedly wrote(?) and I enjoyed it. I like the fact that he comes onto you was a good decision and made it feel more natural to me.

Good, now go read her book and tell me if you think her writing is up to par.

My initial point wasn't that there was nothing wrong with her writing just that she had done nothing to invite this shit storm of childish personal criticism.

I disagree. I was fully supporting her until I learned about her twitter comment(which I originally thought was just some rumor that a Bioware fanboy made). While she doesn't deserve hate mail, she did open the flood gates when you openly/publicly generalized everybody who didn't like her, with the ad hominem about the sexual history and employment opportunities of all her critics.

I don't think people should be forced to sit there and take it and 'be professional' when the criticisms she is receiving have little to do with her work and more to do with her appearance.

Your right, which is why she should have reported the people who were making such comments, and blocked anybody that sent her hate mail. I'm not saying should stand idle while others attack her. Just that there are more professional and mature ways about handling the situation(see:reporting and blocking/banning people).

If someone had said 'look this woman's writing is below par' and given examples of that and that's what the internet furor was over I would say that her retort was inappropriate. But one off hand comment from her hardly weighs up against the vast amount of insidious insults she has received.

I'm am not trying to justify the hate that she received by focusing on her comment. I am saying that she lowered herself to their level when she resorted to such tactics.

What she actually said wasn't all that offensive and was probably right on the mark.

What she said was a blatant ad hominem and a completely outdated stereotype about people who play video games(see:virgin).

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

You make it sound as if only pretty women who are ignorant of games, are the ones that are aloud to comment on the gaming industry and that simply is not true.

I'm not entirely sure how you got that idea, my point was that women who don't know anything about games are apparently acceptable if they are pretty, even if they are involving themselves in reviewing and judging those games unlike Ms Hepler.

Good, now go read her book and tell me if you think her writing is up to par.

Why? It doesn't have any bearing on the fact that people are insulting her appearance.

While she doesn't deserve hate mail, she did open the flood gates when you openly/publicly generalized everybody who didn't like her, with the ad hominem about the sexual history and employment opportunities of all her critics.

All she did was say one, actually quite inoffensive and funny, comment in retort to the vast amount of vicious comments sent her way. I imagine at that point she was quite frustrated and angry and could have said a lot worse. I think you are being massively unfair to her.

What she said was a blatant ad hominem and a completely outdated stereotype about people who play video games(see:virgin).

Let me quote Jim from the destructoid article

'It is the height of entitlement to believe you can say whatever you want, as hurtful as you like, and expect not a word of a retort.'

Yes indeed.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

He seems to think that customers can just say what the hell they like to professionals and they have to stoically take it and act like they are Jesus or a Jedi or something.

That is not at all what I was stating, I'll even quote myself to an earlier response to you...

which is why she should have reported the people who were making such comments, and blocked anybody that sent her hate mail. I'm not saying [she] should stand idle while others attack her. Just that there are more professional and mature ways about handling the situation(see:reporting and blocking/banning people).

To get a better understanding with what I am trying to say, compare this commercial tand the actions of the child and the fathers response....

Spoiler: the father represents how a company/employee should respond and the child represents overly emotional/angry fans

Now you see how the child acted in that commercial and how the father responded? That is what I am referring to, that the father should act mature about the situation and respond in a adult and mature manner, not a childish one. If the father was to respond by yelling at the child and throwing a tantrum himself, he would be lowering himself down to the level of the child and he would not be acting mature about the situation.

Miss Helper could have reported/banned/blocked/ignored people but instead she lowered herself to the level of the people bullying her when she made the antagonizing response to some rude person. Her actions do not justify the unnecessary harassment that she received, they just show a lack of professionalism/maturity on her part.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Ok, I'm not going to address your poor attitude any further, seeing how your responding in such a immature manner.

I don't think I have a poor attitude. The way I see it this is an issue where there is a very crystal clear right and wrong.

Your attitude towards me is justified because its a black and white situation? Really? Why? Why can't you approach me in a civil manner?

The gist I seem to be getting from most of your posts is that you don't think Ms. Hepler and her coworker should have stooped to the level of the "trolls." That they should just sit back and take it.

I disagree with you about this. In the past few years these kinds of incidents have been happening more and more. I don't think developers, employees of developers and editors of game sites should sit back and take it anymore.

No, not to just take it. That she should have blocked/reported/banned/ignored the people instead. I'm not asking for her and her coworkers to sit idle, just for them to behave in a civil/professional manner(see:by blocking/banning/reporting those who harass her).

The fact that they were insulting her on her personal twitter means she can respond in a personal manner. The dude who called one of them a "fucking moron" was spot on. I don't get why the "professionals" need to hide behind political correctness. These people are being fucking morons. They absolutely deserve to be publicly labled as such.

I'm sorry if I approached you with attitude at first. You stuck up for somebody who brings very little to this forum (if you look at his health meter you'd see) and it pissed me off.

While I don't agree with Smash's attitude(personally I don't care much for this person given his past history with me), I just feel that Mr. Chalk could be more professional in responding to somebody who is obviously trying to antagonize him/get a rise out of Mr. Chalk.

 

[HanabPacal]

From a number of posts that I?ve read in this thread there seems to be a recurring (and very erroneous) belief that acting professionally means not acting at all. This is absolutely not the case. There are a million ways that Hepler and Flynn could have addressed this awful situation that would have fallen within the bounds of ?professional? and ?tasteful?, and thus would not have included insults and judgments of worth and character (judgments fueled by knee-jerk anger and not fact). Had they chosen this method of response, fueled by logical argument and presented in a very business-like manner it would have sent a much louder, much more powerful message and would have truly put the initial offenders in their place, even though the offenders probably would not have realized it.

And while I?m under no illusion that those initial offenders would have suddenly seen the light and changed their ways ? maybe someone would have. Maybe some, or even just one, of those very hardcore BioWare supporters would have thought to himself or herself that the professional response was really cool and subsequently tried to emulate it at some point in the future. Choosing to answer insult with insult only went to further validate the overarching attitude that permeates the internet ? that every insult should be answered with like insult, or even escalated. This is absolutely the wrong attitude to take.

Hepler and Flynn had a golden opportunity to set the right example to which others should aspire. They chose not to take it and instead freely opted to swim in the same cesspool with those who insulted Hepler. By choosing this path they didn?t accomplish anything positive. They didn?t put these people in their place. They didn?t set these people on the path of right and instill a sense of justice. They didn?t defuse the situation. The only things that they really accomplished were to (again) escalate the situation and send a clear message that they are just as willing to get into the mud as those people that insulted Jennifer.

In this situation nobody was a winner and nobody should be commended for their actions.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

I'm not entirely sure how you got that idea, my point was that women who don't know anything about games are apparently acceptable if they are pretty, even if they are involving themselves in reviewing and judging those games unlike Ms Hepler.

You keep focusing on Ms. Helpers looks as if that is the sole reason why people are upset with her, which it isn't. People are pissed at her for what she said in an interview, her actual(or accused)role as an Bioware employee, and the comments she made on twitter. If you read the comments in this thread you will find other people that have taken issue with her, and these issues don't have anything to do with her looks.

I for one, take issue with her poor choice in handling the wrongful harassment that she received.

Why? It doesn't have any bearing on the fact that people are insulting her appearance.

As I have just mentioned, there are people on this very thread that have taken issue with her writing, what she said in an interview and/or the conduct of her behavior in regards to how she handled the hate she was receiving on twitter.

All she did was say one, actually quite inoffensive and funny, comment in retort to the vast amount of vicious comments sent her way. I imagine at that point she was quite frustrated and angry and could have said a lot worse. I think you are being massively unfair to her.

You keep pointing out how what she said wasn't offensive. Well seeing how being offended is subjective, I would appreciate it if you didn't try to tell me what it was that I find offensive. Her comment about the sexual history and career opportunities for the people that bullied her were very rude. Yes she was being bullied, but two wrongs don't make a right. I except a random internet troll to respond with comments like "you mad bro? you just jelly that you can't get sex", but I don't except a Bioware employee who expects to be taken serious to respond in that matter.

Let me quote Jim from the destructoid article

'It is the height of entitlement to believe you can say whatever you want, as hurtful as you like, and expect not a word of a retort.'

Yes indeed.

Let me just paraphrase from Voltaire,

"A witty comment proves nothing".

As I stated before, I'm not saying that no action should be taken by Ms Helper or the Bioware staff. Instead, I am saying that there is a professional way of responding to such hateful comments(i.e. by blocking/banning/reporting/putting them on ignore).

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

From a number of posts that I?ve read in this thread there seems to be a recurring (and very erroneous) belief that acting professionally means not acting at all. This is absolutely not the case. There are a million ways that Hepler and Flynn could have addressed this awful situation that would have fallen within the bounds of ?professional? and ?tasteful?, and thus would not have included insults and judgments of worth and character (judgments fueled by knee-jerk anger and not fact). Had they chosen this method of response, fueled by logical argument and presented in a very business-like manner it would have sent a much louder, much more powerful message and would have truly put the initial offenders in their place, even though the offenders probably would not have realized it.

And while I?m under no illusion that those initial offenders would have suddenly seen the light and changed their ways ? maybe someone would have. Maybe some, or even just one, of those very hardcore BioWare supporters would have thought to himself or herself that the professional response was really cool and subsequently tried to emulate it at some point in the future. Choosing to answer insult with insult only went to further validate the overarching attitude that permeates the internet ? that every insult should be answered with like insult, or even escalated. This is absolutely the wrong attitude to take.

Hepler and Flynn had a golden opportunity to set the right example to which others should aspire. They chose not to take it and instead freely opted to swim in the same cesspool with those who insulted Hepler. By choosing this path they didn?t accomplish anything positive. They didn?t put these people in their place. They didn?t set these people on the path of right and instill a sense of justice. They didn?t defuse the situation. The only things that they really accomplished were to (again) escalate the situation and send a clear message that they are just as willing to get into the mud as those people that insulted Jennifer.

In this situation nobody was a winner and nobody should be commended for their actions.

^^^This so much! This is what I've been trying to say(and it seems failing to help others see).

 

[HanabPacal]

^^^This so much! This is what I've been trying to say(and it seems failing to help others see).

For some reason many people believe that addressing an issue with professionalism means simply ignoring the situation, or at best limply putting forth some politically correct appeasement. This is not true by any stretch of the imagination. Unfortunately, all too often, people that put forth this belief simply want an excuse to bite, or bite back. Applying a cool head and a firm but just hand to a situation always resonates more powerfully than getting into the muck.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

^^^This so much! This is what I've been trying to say(and it seems failing to help others see).

For some reason many people believe that addressing an issue with professionalism means simply ignoring the situation, or at best limply putting forth some politically correct appeasement. This is not true by any stretch of the imagination. Unfortunately, all too often, people that put forth this belief simply want an excuse to bite, or bite back. Applying a cool head and a firm but just hand to a situation always resonates more powerfully than getting into the muck.

yeah..um..that's what I just typed that I agree with....

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

The initial issue with her was that she knows nothing about gaming and yet is writing stories for games correct? The insults about her appearance accompanied that. Meanwhile models with absolutely no clue about games are reviewing games and interviewing Todd Howard and people are absolutely okay with that.

Do you see how that is a ridiculous double standard?

Again you seem to think someone who is verbally attacked has no right to say anything back which is kind of unfair and unrealistic.

 

[HanabPacal]

^^^This so much! This is what I've been trying to say(and it seems failing to help others see).

For some reason many people believe that addressing an issue with professionalism means simply ignoring the situation, or at best limply putting forth some politically correct appeasement. This is not true by any stretch of the imagination. Unfortunately, all too often, people that put forth this belief simply want an excuse to bite, or bite back. Applying a cool head and a firm but just hand to a situation always resonates more powerfully than getting into the muck.

yeah..um..that's what I just typed that I agree with....

Sorry, Volf, I was simply reiterating because of the fact that people don?t seem to want to grasp onto the fact that what Hepler and Flynn did was wrong, regardless of the events leading up to their comments.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

snip

The initial issue with her was that she knows nothing about gaming and yet is writing stories for games correct? The insults about her appearance accompanied that. Meanwhile models with absolutely no clue about games are reviewing games and interviewing Todd Howard and people are absolutely okay with that.

Do you see how that is a ridiculous double standard?

You keep going back to her appearance, WHY? With the exception of trolls, everybody who I have seen that is pissed at her, seems to feel that way because of her occupation, what she said in the interview, and her twitter response. You make it sound like people who be less critical of her if she was attractive, which is nonsense, because I would still be offended by her twitter comment.

Again you seem to think someone who is verbally attacked has no right to say anything back which is kind of unfair and unrealistic.

No, I feel that a employee of a company should approach consumers of the company's product in a professional way.

Also....

Spoiler: you seem to be dead set on accusing people that they dislike this person because of her looks and not her actions, and that she is valid in responding in a childish manner. So perhaps somebody else can tell you what I'm trying to say about how she poorly handled herself on twitter

From a number of posts that Ive read in this thread there seems to be a recurring (and very erroneous) belief that acting professionally means not acting at all. This is absolutely not the case. There are a million ways that Hepler and Flynn could have addressed this awful situation that would have fallen within the bounds of professional and tasteful, and thus would not have included insults and judgments of worth and character (judgments fueled by knee-jerk anger and not fact). Had they chosen this method of response, fueled by logical argument and presented in a very business-like manner it would have sent a much louder, much more powerful message and would have truly put the initial offenders in their place, even though the offenders probably would not have realized it.

And while Im under no illusion that those initial offenders would have suddenly seen the light and changed their ways ? maybe someone would have. Maybe some, or even just one, of those very hardcore BioWare supporters would have thought to himself or herself that the professional response was really cool and subsequently tried to emulate it at some point in the future. Choosing to answer insult with insult only went to further validate the overarching attitude that permeates the internet ? that every insult should be answered with like insult, or even escalated. This is absolutely the wrong attitude to take.

Hepler and Flynn had a golden opportunity to set the right example to which others should aspire. They chose not to take it and instead freely opted to swim in the same cesspool with those who insulted Hepler. By choosing this path they didnt accomplish anything positive. They didnt put these people in their place. They didnt set these people on the path of right and instill a sense of justice. They didnt defuse the situation. The only things that they really accomplished were to (again) escalate the situation and send a clear message that they are just as willing to get into the mud as those people that insulted Jennifer.

In this situation nobody was a winner and nobody should be commended for their actions.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

^^^This so much! This is what I've been trying to say(and it seems failing to help others see).

For some reason many people believe that addressing an issue with professionalism means simply ignoring the situation, or at best limply putting forth some politically correct appeasement. This is not true by any stretch of the imagination. Unfortunately, all too often, people that put forth this belief simply want an excuse to bite, or bite back. Applying a cool head and a firm but just hand to a situation always resonates more powerfully than getting into the muck.

yeah..um..that's what I just typed that I agree with....

Sorry, Volf, I was simply reiterating because of the fact that people don?t seem to want to grasp onto the fact that what Hepler and Flynn did was wrong, regardless of the events leading up to their comments.

Totally agree, they could have responded to these people by blocking/reporting/banning/putting them on ignore list. I can't help but smh at the conduct of the company. Sadly enough, the actions of Hepler and Flynn remind me of another person's [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/111038-Duke-Nukem-Forever-PR-Agency-Threatens-Sites-Over-Bad-Reviews-UPDATED] twitter comments.