Bioware vs. their Fans

[42]

wow a company you've been buying products from loses your loyalty over 2 games that are not actually crap, but didn't meet expectations? thats not loyalty. loyalty is staying with them through the good and the bad. and for the whole simplification of the RPG mechanics from ME1 to ME2 was actually quite a logical choice because the RPG mechanics in number 1 sucked balls. i don't care if that does start a flame war, its true. ME2 is the better game. except for Mako. Mako was awesome.

 

[irishda]

I don't agree that EA is responsible for cutting down Bioware. EA's more than willing to push new IP's (Mirror's Edge, Spore, Overstrike), but they operate under the fairly common business model of relying on "tent-pole" games that are pretty much guaranteed money-makers and using those proceeds to dabble in fringe elements.

Unfortunately, the guaranteed money makers are the sports games and the "dumbed down" titles that hardcore gamers like to vilify for some reason.

However, I am glad that this thread has a lot of people saying "I'm not gonna deny Bioware games outright, but I will be more careful with them" because that is exactly what smart customers do. Shit, I bought games purely on the basis of "what looked fun to me" before DSL internet told me what was coming and from who. I never would've discovered games like Gothic 2, Dynasty Warriors 5, Painkiller, half of the PS2's library, or Mirror's Edge if I went by developer.

 

[The Rainmaker]

I still love Bioware. Dragon age 2 sucked, and so did the ending to ME3, but I am willing to forgive it because the indoctrination theory makes so much sense and I have faith that Bioware is actually going to implement it in a DLC of some kind.

Also, fuck the haters, ME2 is one of the best games I have ever played, they don't deserve a shitstorm for dumbing down the RPG elements.

 

[zefiris]

thats not loyalty. loyalty is staying with them through the good and the bad.

That's not loyalty, that's insanity. You aren't bioware's friend, spouse, or daughter, you're their customer. And if they deliver bad products (and yes, DA2 was a genuinely bad game), then it's entirely reasonable to punish them for it.

This is how you assure that they improve. Sticking to them mindlessly does not improve anything and does not give you any loyalty points, it assures that the company keeps churning out bad products.

This is capitalism. It's the role of the consumer to punish bad business decisions. Deal. With. It.

However, I am glad that this thread has a lot of people saying "I'm not gonna deny Bioware games outright, but I will be more careful with them" because that is exactly what smart customers do

Precisely.

I will never understand this brand "Loyalty" people have. It doesn't help anyone, doesn't improve quality, and makes you miss games that are probably better than what your picked brand sells.

 

[Justanewguy]

The funny part is how even "bad" BioWare games can still be considered a lot better than a lot of what else there is on the gaming market, though still gonna be a while until next time I buy one of their games. Maybe if/when their new releases make their way to Steam, and then have a special discount.

Then in turn, the reason why they're not on Steam is because EA had to get whiny about Steam's DLC policies. Is it really that bad that one of the criterias for having a game available on Steam is that the DLC for that game should also be available there?

This is sort of where I am right now. Sure, Bioware has screwed up in a few cases, but ultimately they're still one of the best producers of quality games out there. I love Bioware games on a level only really shared by Bethesda Studios...and Bungie.

Odd...come to think of it...I may just like them for the first letters in their names...

I believe I have some soul searching to do...

 

[Elivercury]

I'd argue that the difference isn't their acquisition by EA and more self entitled fans planning out sequels in their heads which they then get upset about the sequel not matching.

I will admit, I've not actually played ME3 yet, but I personally found ME2 to be vastly superior to ME1. I also never really got this whole "dumbing down" argument for games. I could understand if it was in relation to starcraft 3 or something, but for what was already in the first place a shooter with RPG elements and in essence a very simple game already?

I've seen the same pissing and moaning about Skyrim further simplifying the skills/combat, yet I've enjoyed Skyrim far more than I did Oblivion.

I'd also add, that I've not actually seen/read any complaints about ME3 other than it's ending. The multiplayer has been far more successful than was expected when it was first announced, the single player (from what I can gather) is as strong as ever, there is a bit of fuss over the "gay shep" concept I guess, but bigots will be bigots.

 

[Shinigami214]

Not "Fans," but rather "Some Fans."

I'm a Bioware fan who loved DA2 and ME3. I feel like Bioware has only gotten better over time.

I liked KotOR, but I felt that KotOR 2 was better...the writing was better, more gray and less black and white.
With ME2/3 and DA:O/DA3 I feel like Obsidian rubbed off on them and their plots were more interesting and in depth.
I've been particularly impressed with the experimentation and risks they've taken in narrative really working to do something different and new with RPG conventions. I loved the darkness they've injected into the newer games. I really love the things they done to decenter the protagonist in interesting ways.

I think it is great that people hit on you in DA2, and that you aren't the most powerful person in Kirkwall, and that it is a city based game. I love that there are some bad things that you can't stop. I love that sometimes the best outcomes come from being diplomatic and that sometimes the best outcomes come from being aggressive.

I love the Dwarven levels in DA:O.

I love the opening death in ME2, and that some of your team mates can end up dead if you haven't done enough and don't know them well enough...and that then, is that.

I love the ending of ME3. I love the real personal touches with your teammates. The inside jokes, the humor, the care. They had me getting teary multiple times throughout that game. I love how well crafted the entire ME3 is.

Yeah, for me...I think Bioware has only been getting better and better. I just with they'd not have pulled back on the love scenes due to the alien side boob Fox news scandal. But the addition of male-male romance, the addition of a female Shep cover for ME3 as well as a male Shep cover. They have great politics and clearly care a lot about their work. I will, without hesitation, pre-order any game they put out in the next 5 years. They have my loyalty.

I loled.

Hard.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

The funny part is how even "bad" BioWare games can still be considered a lot better than a lot of what else there is on the gaming market, though still gonna be a while until next time I buy one of their games. Maybe if/when their new releases make their way to Steam, and then have a special discount.

Then in turn, the reason why they're not on Steam is because EA had to get whiny about Steam's DLC policies. Is it really that bad that one of the criterias for having a game available on Steam is that the DLC for that game should also be available there?

Yes it is really silly, considering the massive player base Steam has. That and with with the ever present Steam sales and the resulting impulse buys that inevitably accompany them (I just bought the Deus Ex DLC that way) why wouldn't they want their DLC on the front of the store page?

REcaptcha: know your rights (I know them, thats why I DON'T have Origin installed on my PC thank you very much.)

 

[Rawne1980]

I won't rule out Bioware games for being Bioware games, but they are no longer pre-orders for me. I am no longer a loyal customer as much I am a prospective buyer.

Agree with this comment here.

I'll wait a few months before buying any more BioWare games just to really make sure they are worth the money.

At one point there was no doubts at all now i'm slightly worried about DA3.

 

[JediMB]

I do love BioWare's games, and believe that they can still make good character-driven RPGs.

However, I know there are other "forces" involved, and the Mass Effect 3 ending has shaken my trust in them. While the rest of the game is a testament to that they're still fantastic developers, I need to be able to trust that know what they did wrong with ME3. The best way for them to prove that is by fixing said ending.

 

[Crazy Elf]

You do realise that the ending of Mass Effect 3 is perfectly in line with the theme of the games up to this point? And, you also do realise that not everything has to end well to be considered complete? Hamlet doesn't end well, but it's still considered rather good. King Lear doesn't end well, either. A Tale of Two Cities ends in a very similar way to Mass Effect 3 in many ways.

Perhaps it's time people got used to an ending in which people make actual sacrifices rather than getting their way all the time. Like the Rolling Stones say, "You can't always get what you want."

There you have it. Bioware's got the moves like Jagger.

 

[Candidus]

Bioware then didn't stomp this in the ground and just say "we are artists, these are our works. We can't please everybody, no matter what we do." They just placated them, mindlessly, like children.

Through miscommunication, childishness, patronization, and EA's reputation, the relationship between Bioware and its fans has become adversarial and completely unhealthy. Unhealthy for the industry, for the games, the medium and for everybody involved.

For the last time OP, this isn't about artistic direction, this is about the STANDARD of the work that they did. If you believe the ending is a functional piece of professionally written literature, then you need to look again because this issue isn't subjective.

They could have taken an artistic direction I hated and I'd still have supported them. What I can't support is a work riddled with plot holes that is inconsistent with the lore, which contradicts (as a matter of FACT and not opinion) all of their pre-release advertising, which for many formed part of the basis for purchase- including me.

If you believe Weekes, this happened because Hudson and another lead writer circumvented peer review and cowboy'd the ending themselves. Whatever the cause, I believe a redo is the only solution.

I don't want to play fanfiction. I want an ending that makes sense and resembles the promises. Not unreasonable. Certainly not childish.

Here's an adult notion for you. Consider yourself obligated to thoroughly study a subject- especially a debate- before you talk about it. At the very least, you should do that before you take a side.

http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-ending-hatred-5-reasons-the-fans-are-right/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M0Cf864P7E
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10056886/1

Edit: I'd love to see them "it's art!" the OP of that thread away. "We kept all of those promises if you look at the ending through a prism on the event horizon of a crack hole! Honest."

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

I was prepared for the ending by the time I finished it. I thought it was ok, but I did wish they took a more ME2 ending route. Still, it didn't seem nearly as bad as I expected.

I really hated DA2 though. The story line was ok, but the game itself felt cheap. Every dungeon was the same and you never moved from that city. Thats what angered me.

I am now playing Old Republic and loving it. I guess I'll just let that hold me till Bioware figures out what they want to do. I do find it funny that everyone is ragging on EA as this evil God company. They are actually losing millions a year right now. If you really want to get into it Activision/Blizzard is the big dog in town.

Also while I'm not positive why Bioware was bought by EA I do know that some of the Bioware founders did leave around the same time. That could very well be the reason the games are starting to look like its built from table scraps.

Just feel there should be more to it than EA. Don't get me wrong I have my own company I will never forgive (SOE) so I understand, but lets take a step back and use research to figure out whats up with Bioware.

 

[JediMB]

You do realise that the ending of Mass Effect 3 is perfectly in line with the theme of the games up to this point?

Self-determination, strength through diversity, and letting go of prejudices.

Each alternative in Mass Effect 3's ending forces you to reject at least one of those, based on a false premise stated by a character whose very existence contradicts all we previously knew about the Reapers.

 

[spartandude]

before i was a mass effet fanboy, i mean i would defend it to the death. mass effect was my third favourite game, with ME2 being somewhere in my top 20 (not as good but still amazing), but with ME3 i was a bit cautious thinking it wouldnt be as good
then i played it and it was AMAZING i absolutely loved it, even forgived the final fantasy assassin. i loved it completely untill the end

the end has actually destroyed it for me, i dont even want to play through the first 2 games at all anymore because it feels like everything in there was completely irrelevent

Spoiler: ME3 ending

shepard finds a secret room in the citadel and can therefore decide the fate of the galaxy.
congratulations you are the best hide and seek player in the universe! and your reward is chosing the fate of all life!

 

[GoaThief]

2007

Bioware introduced it's magnum opus to the world: Mass Effect. An epic, brilliantly-written story-driven space opera, Mass Effect captivated gamers and introduced millions to a burgeoning franchise and one of the most-loved developers in the industry. Bioware was riding high after this success.

Actually, Dragon Age: Origins was the bigger game that sold more copies than the original Mass Effect. DA:O was their big success, especially as sales increased (virtually unprecedented) as time went on thanks due to excellent word of mouth and positive reviews. Mass Effect was great and did well, but was limited to one format and didn't make as big waves. I agree Dragon Age 2 was the first turning point for the worst but as Mass Effect 2 was huge this caused something of a divide between fans.

I except there's quite a few smug DA:O fans out there going, "I told you so!" regarding ME3.

 

[idarkphoenixi]

It's not really Biowares fault. If you want to blame anyone then blame EA.