Bioware vs. their Fans

[Bara_no_Hime]

I still like 'em
Sure, Mass Effect 3's ending sucked, and Dragon Age 2 wasn't as good as the first, but I'd rather play a Bioware game over many other games being release nowadays.

This.

I still hold up the Mass Effect trilogy one of the best games ever made - even if the ending had some serious issues.

Edit: Oh, and for the record, I quite enjoyed DA2. In some ways more than DA:O. Sure the dungeons were copy/paste, but the ones in the city actually made sense (well, most of the time) since you were just revisiting the same locations with new residents. Looking forward to DA3.

 

[AbstractStream]

EA happened.

As strong a force as Bioware is in the gaming industry, and while 80% of what Bioware wants, Bioware gets, that 20% that EA demands is what people hate about Bioware.

I still think Bioware are a brilliant dev team, but EA is like a slow moving toxin, corrupting everything it touches.

Hyperbolic? Maybe, but that's the way I feel.

Agreed.
I shake my fist at you EA. Kind of makes me wonder though, what would have happened if EA didn't take over?

Am I still a Bioware fan? Yea, I suppose. Just no longer a die hard one.

 

[Threeseventyfive]

First Pandemic and now Bioware?

EA is like an Ardat-Yakshi, it kills everyone it partners with.

 

[BenzSmoke]

I liked Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2. I even liked Mass Effect 3... up until the ending, I hadn't really had a big problem with it. Sure I had a couple of nitpicky and annoying things (Cerberus suddenly being a super organization & Tali's photo anyone?), but didn't have any game ruining problems.

Then I hit the end & got a "Choose A, B, or C" endings, that are all the same, & where stuff in their own lore got thrown out the space window, for example: the reason Shep. was on Earth @ the beginning was because he destroyed an entire system in the Arrival DLC by destroying a mass relay. The endgame destroys ALL the relays but you're to assume that none of the systems get destroyed (Though you're never told if the systems were destroyed or not, so maybe you killed everyone?). All your friends abandon you & crash land on an uninhabited planet to... starve to death? And all the Alien fleets are stranded in the same system (assuming that the relay xplosion didn't kill everyone) with no food, so I guess they all... starve to death too?

It was all just really really stupid & just didn't feel like a very well thought out ending at all. They literally had some holographic space ghost "Star Child" come out @ the end & explain everything to you. No thrilling final boss fight with Sovereign, just a kid that explains everything to you then the "choose A, B, or C" ending where nothing in the previous games effects any of the endings and everyone starves to death. Really most of my problems with the game are covered here [http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=15395].

 

[Atmos Duality]

Once again proving that EA is still the evil empire. They were ok for about 2 years at the start of this gen where everyone hated them but now they are worse.

RIP Bullfrog, Looking Glass Studios, Pandemic etc etc The list goes on.

Fuck you EA.

Go ahead and add Westwood & Will Wright to the list.
"Challenge Everything" is misleading. "Swallow everything" seems more appropriate.

When you purchase EA, you are NOT supporting the developer. Every single talented, promising developer EA has bought out gets wrung out, displaced or eventually closed down entirely. And it is ALWAYS due to EA's meddling and mandates.
EA has been on the receiving end of class action lawsuits from their own employees for labor violations.

I want to make this perfectly clear: That is the vicious cycle of developer consumption you support when you buy an EA game. I want everyone who reads this to keep that in mind.

Do with that information what you will. I can't force you to care, but I can say you have been warned.

Some of us don't hate EA just because "It's cool or fun to hate". We hate EA because they are a plague upon gaming, and have been for over a decade now.

 

[JasonKaotic]

Mass Effect 3's ending has literally left me unable to play any game in the series ever again knowing that's what it all leads up to.
For taking one of my most loved material things in the world from me, I am done with EA. Well, that and other reasons I don't need to go into. And I'm pretty much done with BioWare for letting EA manipulate them, although the only games of theirs I've played and liked are the Mass Effect games anyway.

 

[Krantos]

Is there any game-developer that hasn't gone through this? I don't think it's just a Bioware exclusive

Bethesda really hasn't. They got quite a bit of negative feedback about Oblivion, but it wasn't anything like BioWare's. Plus Skyrim seems to have won back a lot of them (though not all). There's actually a TES forum I've been going to regularly since Morrowind, and while there a lot of new faces, most of the old crowd is still around. We all still love the games, and, while there are complaints, we basically are just happy the company keeps making the kind of games we love.

The problem is BioWare has pretty much pulled a +90 degree turn and are making games for completely different audiences than they used to. I think that's where a lot of the bile comes from. It's like if Call of Duty's next installment was a turn based tactical shooter. Sure it might be good, but the current fans of the series are going to be annoyed.

 

[Mustang678]

I don't know what world you're living in, ME2 was a fantastic game

Is there any game-developer that hasn't gone through this? I don't think it's just a Bioware exclusive

Bethesda really hasn't. They got quite a bit of negative feedback about Oblivion, but it wasn't anything like BioWare's. Plus Skyrim seems to have won back a lot of them (though not all). There's actually a TES forum I've been going to regularly since Morrowind, and while there a lot of new faces, most of the old crowd is still around. We all still love the games, and, while there are complaints, we basically are just happy the company keeps making the kind of games we love.

That's interesting, because I loved Oblivion and didn't care for Skyrim.

 

[ResonanceSD]

I still like 'em
Sure, Mass Effect 3's ending sucked, and Dragon Age 2 wasn't as good as the first, but I'd rather play a Bioware game over many other games being release nowadays.

sure the Mass Effect ending makes me hate on a level saved only for dictators and members of my family,

And people who talk at the theatre. Fuck those guys.

Is there any game-developer that hasn't gone through this? I don't think it's just a Bioware exclusive

Bethesda really hasn't. They got quite a bit of negative feedback about Oblivion, but it wasn't anything like BioWare's. Plus Skyrim seems to have won back a lot of them (though not all). There's actually a TES forum I've been going to regularly since Morrowind, and while there a lot of new faces, most of the old crowd is still around. We all still love the games, and, while there are complaints, we basically are just happy the company keeps making the kind of games we love.

The problem is BioWare has pretty much pulled a +90 degree turn and are making games for completely different audiences than they used to. I think that's where a lot of the bile comes from. It's like if Call of Duty's next installment was a turn based tactical shooter. Sure it might be good, but the current fans of the series are going to be annoyed.

Never, ever try to please fans. They're never happy. Skyrim was awesome "hardcore fans" (morons) decried it because "it's not as complicated as Morrowind".


And another thing, can we as an Internet stop comparing shit to Morrowind? IT WASN'T EVEN THAT GOOD FOR THE TIME.

 

[CleverCover]

Even though I don't want to admit or think that EA really is that horrible a company to eventually destroy what I loved about Bioware, I have to admit there is a connection between when the games started to lose their shine and when EA bought them.

I mean I had fun with ME2, enjoyed DA2 and loved DA:O, but it never had that same OMG THIS IS BEAUTIFUL like ME1 did. And now with ME3...there is no way that ending is anything but last minute fill in. I can't muster up the energy to finish my other playthroughs with the ending as is.

Maybe I'm just not the focus anymore, that combat is more important than story now...

Maybe my dad is just getting to me...

Maybe I need a break from anything Mass Effect related until May....

 

[Krantos]

I don't know what world you're living in, ME2 was a fantastic game

Bethesda got quite a bit of negative feedback about Oblivion, but it wasn't anything like BioWare's. Plus Skyrim seems to have won back a lot of them (though not all). There's actually a TES forum I've been going to regularly since Morrowind, and while there a lot of new faces, most of the old crowd is still around. We all still love the games, and, while there are complaints, we basically are just happy the company keeps making the kind of games we love.

That's interesting, because I loved Oblivion and didn't care for Skyrim.

Oblivion got a lot of flak from Morrowind fans for a number of reason (some good, others not). I've at least tried all the games in the series (Arena and Daggerfall are basically unplayable by today's standards), but Morrowind is the first one I've spent much time with, so I generally base my impressions of the series on that.

Personally, I think they're all really good. They all did certain things differently, and better, while maintaining the same core engagements.

Morrowind had great atmosphere, but, gameplay wise, was lacking. Oblivion continues to be, imo, the most aesthetically pleasing (minus character models), but was a bit generic and the enemy leveling gave it a wronky difficulty curve. Skyrim has probably the best combat and magic, but isn't as atmospheric as Morrowind and is considerably...er... browner than Oblivion.

Hardcore fans, however, generally think Oblivion is the weakest (like I said, some good reasons, some not). The reason, IMO, there hasn't been any fan uprising about the changes to the games (removing stats, etc.) is they still maintain the same basic structure: Wonderfully full and expansive world to explore with limited constraints from story etc. Yes the animations are a bit wooden, the voice actors are second rate, and the plots could use a lot of help. But the central focus that makes the games great remains unchanged.

Just my opinion of course.

 

[ThePS1Fan]

Fans distrusted Bioware, and Bioware's acquisition by EA is what started it all.

I wonder if it would be possible for Bioware to break away from EA somehow, the way that Bungie ditched Microsoft a while ago. This corporate nonsense isn't really my area, and I don't know the exact details of how something like that might work, but the way things are going, it might be Bioware's only hope...

I'm not sure, employees are probably singed to contracts and the name will most likely stay with EA no matter what, however there is a chance, however slim that BioWare could one day be EA free, under a new name most likely.

 

[Krantos]

Skyrim was awesome "hardcore fans" (morons) decried it because "it's not as complicated as Morrowind".

I've honestly not run into this much. At the TES centric forums I go to there were a couple people who didn't like the game, but most people have loved it. Bearing in mind that a lot of the people on the forum have been there since Morrowind, so...

And another thing, can we as an Internet stop comparing shit to Morrowind? IT WASN'T EVEN THAT GOOD FOR THE TIME.

I actually do agree with this one. Most of the reason Morrowind gets so much love, I think, is because it was a pretty new thing. It was one of the first 3d open world games and probably the first one that people still talk about.

I've gone back to play it recently and realized that most people who praise probably haven't actually played it in a while. It's just... not that good gameplay wise. Low level characters get kicked for just exploring and if you don't have a good build you aren't going to do well. This is aggravated by the fact the default builds are pretty bad, and putting a good build together takes knowledge of the mechanics. Then you consider that stealth and magic aren't nearly as playable as combat focused characters.

The world was great, but the game as a whole was just "good for the time."

 

[dreadedcandiru99]

I'm not sure, employees are probably singed to contracts and the name will most likely stay with EA no matter what, however there is a chance, however slim that BioWare could one day be EA free, under a new name most likely.

Bungie signed a contract with Microsoft that ended with Reach, so theres that.

I think EA bought Bioware outright, so theres no way they are getting away from them unless someone buys Bioware from EA, which wont happen.

RIP Bioware.

...crap.

Well, I've always meant to get more into indie games, anyway. Are there any independent RPG developers? I can't think of any off the top of my head...

 

[ThePS1Fan]

I'm not sure, employees are probably singed to contracts and the name will most likely stay with EA no matter what, however there is a chance, however slim that BioWare could one day be EA free, under a new name most likely.

Bungie signed a contract with Microsoft that ended with Reach, so theres that.

I think EA bought Bioware outright, so theres no way they are getting away from them unless someone buys Bioware from EA, which wont happen.

RIP Bioware.

...crap.

Well, I've always meant to get more into indie games, anyway. Are there any independent RPG developers? I can't think of any off the top of my head...

I think Bethesda are indie
EDIT: OK Bethesda isn't really indie. Whatever my bad.

 

[babinro]

I don't understand the hate towards the games themselves.

Bioware in my opinion continues to bring out the best games of the year and is easily my favorite developer this generation.

People jump all over them for 'dumbing down' games. I see it as them trying something new to keep the elements of the franchise alive without making it stagnant. They simplify on area's that are non-essential (albeit traditional to gaming) while maintaining the important decisions that really matter.

Every game they release has a decent to great story. Each game has at least a couple great characters that you can easily get invested in. Each game seems to top the prior in terms of gameplay.

If people choose to hate Bioware because of the marketing and publishing decisions associated with those games. I can understand that.

 

[dreadedcandiru99]

I think Bethesda are indie

Ah. For some reason I didn't think they qualified. (Probably because they have money. Somehow I got it into my head that brokeness is critical to indieness.) I got Skyrim months ago, but I was never able to really get into it, mainly because I didn't really care about the characters all that much. Because Bioware got me in the habit of expecting awesome characters. Dammit.