I just started replaying Mass Effect recently, and realized that I had yet to play as a female character. So I did. But I also noticed something odd: females in Mass Effect have NO MUSCLE AT ALL. This is supposed to be one of the better games for gender equality, but every single female in the game, even highly-trained soldiers and mercenaries, have arms like freaking toothpicks. It really makes it hard to take the game seriously, seeing some twig-armed person punching relatively musclebound bad guys (even KROGAN for crying out loud!) in full combat armor to the floor.
Bizarre Sexual Dimorphism
- Thread starter Austin Merida
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Eh, women generally don't bulk out like guys do, not without some serious drugs in their system.
Real world female soldiers aren't significantly more bulky than other women. Some of them have boxy bodies, but that's just how they're built, nothing to do with being a physically fit soldier.
Although I do remember Ashley's arms being absurdly thin. Also, there was something distinctly off with her elbows.
As for punching Krogan, that's silly regardless of whether the person delivering the punches is male or female. An extra 50% muscle mass isn't going to allow you to take on a 300kg battle beast.
(Although, come to think of it, I don't recall Shepard ever going toe-to-toe with a Krogan, except when he/she knocks Wrex over in ME1 which, like I said, was a bit silly.)
Real world female soldiers aren't significantly more bulky than other women. Some of them have boxy bodies, but that's just how they're built, nothing to do with being a physically fit soldier.
Although I do remember Ashley's arms being absurdly thin. Also, there was something distinctly off with her elbows.
As for punching Krogan, that's silly regardless of whether the person delivering the punches is male or female. An extra 50% muscle mass isn't going to allow you to take on a 300kg battle beast.
(Although, come to think of it, I don't recall Shepard ever going toe-to-toe with a Krogan, except when he/she knocks Wrex over in ME1 which, like I said, was a bit silly.)
You can head butt a Krogan in ME2...
Back OT - actually, I just realized I have absolutely nothing to say.
Carry on.
Back OT - actually, I just realized I have absolutely nothing to say.
Carry on.
I dunno dude, I've only been going to the gym for six months, and despite having a pretty slim frame overall I managed to inadvertently get pretty damn buff. Back when I was in the army, I also bulked up considerably after being a very skinny person beforehand. I do think the arms portrayed in a lot of "tough" female characters are on the unrealistically scrawny side, having been there and done that.Zhukov said:
What bothered me more was the fact that the necks on the female characters (at least in the first one) looked ridiculously long and skinny. Also, since they used either the same or very similar animations for the male and female character models, some of the movements looked a bit off. I put it down to flawed technology rather than any sort of malevolent intent on the part of the designers.
Maybe I'm approaching this backwards, but I'm sort of curious as to how women and men display muscle. I've heard that women tend to have a higher fat ratio on their bodies than men do, which leads to muscular men and "softer-edged" women.
For your consideration:
Hope Solo:
David Beckham:
Maybe soccer players are bad examples since they don't really bulk (they just sort of get fit), but they're fairly evenly bulky there.
For your consideration:
Hope Solo:
David Beckham:
Maybe soccer players are bad examples since they don't really bulk (they just sort of get fit), but they're fairly evenly bulky there.
Well most of the female characters who should be fit and athletic have this tendency of wearing armour just like the male characters do.Austin Merida said:
Women don't have the testosterone and physical make up that men do to pack on muscle the same way. Those few athletes and bodybuilders who are built like men are on steroids (the Olympics is pretty much a giant chemistry contest) as its the only way they can look that way.
It's probably for the same reason there's no fat people in Mass Effect. It's easier to simply give every male and female the same body type when there's that many NPCs walking around.
I think even Zero Punctuation commented on this in the Dragon Age 2 review, how Hawke's own mother has the same hot body as the women in the brothel.
I myself am always a bit jarred by Femshep's unusually long neck.
I think even Zero Punctuation commented on this in the Dragon Age 2 review, how Hawke's own mother has the same hot body as the women in the brothel.
I myself am always a bit jarred by Femshep's unusually long neck.
What would you have had them do instead? Can you imagine the controversy if ME had changed that scene based upon the sex of the character you played? We'd have had months of feminists screaming at the top of their harpy-like lungs about how men and women are the same and how sexist it is and all that nonsense.
I can understand where you're coming from in a realism kinda way, but it just seems like a non-issue to me.
I can understand where you're coming from in a realism kinda way, but it just seems like a non-issue to me.
Women lack the androgen/testosterone levels to successfully maintain a higher level of muscle mass then they naturally have unless you get involved with some serious steroidal or growth hormone abuse. And to be honest I don't think anyone would prefer a bulky/beefy female to what we get. I would definitely not call having a slim commander wrapped in combat armour sexist.
Commander Shepard as a male isn't big at all either. I think the design choice was focused upon providing a protagonist who's power came from action and ability and not physical strength or size
Commander Shepard as a male isn't big at all either. I think the design choice was focused upon providing a protagonist who's power came from action and ability and not physical strength or size
Hey, man, multiple character models are expensive! (This is why there are no female turians despite there being literally no lore justification for this.)
But yeah, it's a little stupid that a cyborg that solves problems with punches and headbuts has the same build as:
A) Kelly Chambers
B) Dr. Chakwas
But yeah, it's a little stupid that a cyborg that solves problems with punches and headbuts has the same build as:
A) Kelly Chambers
B) Dr. Chakwas
Well doesn't their strength in that game series come from their technology, not their muscles?Austin Merida said:
Both male-shep and femshep have the muscle mass you'd expect for each gender WITHOUT strength training.
For the same effort in strength training to get a woman to bulk up a man will bulk on muscle much more. That is the result of the differing levels of testosterone and oestrogen. If is very hard for a woman to lap a man in upper body strength though a woman only has to train a little more to lap a man in leg strength, but for the same level of training men almost always have a strength advantage.
This is because testosterone - which is what makes males into typical men - is an extremely potent anabolic steroid. In sports, it is testosterone (and other chemicals that function in the same way) that are the main method of "doping" for decades. Men and women are segregated in sports as the difference between men and women is like the difference between a man juicing on steroids and a man who isn't.
Mass Effect didn't invent this, Natural selection did.
Most mammals don't have such extreme gender dimorphism as humans do, except for lions where the males is much larger and stronger and has that distinct mane, analogous to how men naturally will grow a beard. Out closest ancestors, the Chimpanzees, do not have such gender dimorphism, it seems this has been a relatively recent adaptation in our evolution from non-human apes.
You know guys, just 'cause women don't bulk out the same way guys do doesn't mean their arms should look like twigs. There is such a thing as a muscular woman.
It's not as much of a problem in Mass Effect 2 and 3, but in the first one they just look weird.
It's not as much of a problem in Mass Effect 2 and 3, but in the first one they just look weird.
Liara is just a shy, young scientist who has barely even reached adulthood when you meet her though, so I think that's allowed.Esotera said:The worst offender I can think of is Liara in the Mass Effect 1. Her arms are ridiculously out of proportion from her body.
It's a very minor flaw though, it doesn't ruin the series or anything.
I think sexual dimorphism is more common in mammals than you make it out to be. In almost all species of Carnivora (the group of mammals that includes dogs and cats) the males are usually larger than the females. This is particularly pronounced in big cats (e.g. male tigers are usually 90-100kg, whereas females are only 65-80kg). In hyenas (and, strangely, blue whales!) this trend is reversed, with females usually larger than males.Treblaine said:
Chimpanzees exhibit size difference too, with adult males on average about 10kg heavier than females. Although this difference seems insignificant next to gorillas, where males are often twice as heavy as females. Female orangutans are similarly only half the size of males, and also lack the fleshy pads that males have on either side of their face. Looking at another type of primate, most lemurs exhibit sexual dimorphism of some sort (often in terms of colour rather than size). Baboon males typically have far larger canine teeth than females (although this varies from species to species). But mandrills are probably the most sexually dimorphic of all primates, with males both double the size and vastly more colourful than females.
In fact, I've always thought that humans are quite boringly un-dimorphic when it comes to sex. It really is just a difference in average height and muscle mass (with slight differences in fat distribution, and some additional body hair).
On a related note, do people think gender equality in our society would take (or have taken, depending on your view) longer to come about if humans showed greater sexual dimorphism?