Bizarre Sexual Dimorphism

[Esotera]

Liara is just a shy, young scientist who has barely even reached adulthood when you meet her though, so I think that's allowed.

It would fit her character fine if every single female in the universe didn't also have freakishly thin arms. I can't think of a single example with normal looking arms, let alone muscular ones.

 

[Agent Cross]

The worst offender I can think of is Liara in the Mass Effect 1. Her arms are ridiculously out of proportion from her body.

Spoiler

It's a very minor flaw though, it doesn't ruin the series or anything.

Liara is just a shy, young scientist who has barely even reached adulthood when you meet her though, so I think that's allowed.

What about the Krogans with their big heads and the Salarians with their little ones? How dare these aliens evolve with different proportions than us humans!? Thank God none have more than two legs, or look like an elephant. How ridiculous would that be?

/loads of sarcasm

 

[The_Waspman]

The worst offender I can think of is Liara in the Mass Effect 1. Her arms are ridiculously out of proportion from her body.

Spoiler

It's a very minor flaw though, it doesn't ruin the series or anything.

Actually, my arms look like that. In fact they're probably thinner and longer.

Sigh.

This is probably why I'm still single. No one wants to go out with a guy with freakishly thin spider arms.

 

[MetalMagpie]

I can't think of a single example with normal looking arms, let alone muscular ones.

Well, my arms look like Liara's in that shot. Although I'm not nearly as buxom as she is, so I get your point about her maybe looking a little out of proportion. All of the women I know with big busts also hold a little fat on their upper arms.

Wandering thought: I don't personally know any women who have obviously muscular arms. I know plenty of strong women (who lift weights at the gym and all that) but women seem to put on more "lean" muscle than men do, and retain a thin layer of masking fat. You can see the muscles clearly when they tense them, but not when relaxed.

 

[Treblaine]

Most mammals don't have such extreme gender dimorphism as humans do, except for lions where the males is much larger and stronger and has that distinct mane, analogous to how men naturally will grow a beard. Out closest ancestors, the Chimpanzees, do not have such gender dimorphism, it seems this has been a relatively recent adaptation in our evolution from non-human apes.

I think sexual dimorphism is more common in mammals than you make it out to be. In almost all species of Carnivora (the group of mammals that includes dogs and cats) the males are usually larger than the females. This is particularly pronounced in big cats (e.g. male tigers are usually 90-100kg, whereas females are only 65-80kg). In hyenas (and, strangely, blue whales!) this trend is reversed, with females usually larger than males.

Chimpanzees exhibit size difference too, with adult males on average about 10kg heavier than females. Although this difference seems insignificant next to gorillas, where males are often twice as heavy as females. Female orangutans are similarly only half the size of males, and also lack the fleshy pads that males have on either side of their face. Looking at another type of primate, most lemurs exhibit sexual dimorphism of some sort (often in terms of colour rather than size). Baboon males typically have far larger canine teeth than females (although this varies from species to species). But mandrills are probably the most sexually dimorphic of all primates, with males both double the size and vastly more colourful than females.

In fact, I've always thought that humans are quite boringly un-dimorphic when it comes to sex. It really is just a difference in average height and muscle mass (with slight differences in fat distribution, and some additional body hair).

On a related note, do people think gender equality in our society would take (or have taken, depending on your view) longer to come about if humans showed greater sexual dimorphism?

I meant the extremes of dimorphism, not any differences at all.

"Humans quite boringly un-dimorphic when it comes to sex."

Really? Beards and chest hair? Mammary glands far larger than for sustenance of babies and throughout adulthood? These are not slight differences, these are discrete differences not varying extents.

I think gender equality HAS taken so long BECAUSE of gender dimorphism! It really does seem that men have huge a differences from women and the ascribe values to those differences. They value relative physical strength and height. Look throughout history of women almost consistently being given the menial unpleasant tasks in the division of labour

 

[Chemical Alia]

Eh, women generally don't bulk out like guys do, not without some serious drugs in their system.

Real world female soldiers aren't significantly more bulky than other women. Some of them have boxy bodies, but that's just how they're built, nothing to do with being a physically fit soldier.

As for punching Krogan, that's silly regardless of whether the person delivering the punches is male or female. An extra 50% muscle mass isn't going to allow you to take on a 300kg battle beast.

(Although, come to think of it, I don't recall Shepard ever going toe-to-toe with a Krogan, except when he/she knocks Wrex over in ME1 which, like I said, was a bit silly.)

I dunno dude, I've only been going to the gym for six months, and despite having a pretty slim frame overall I managed to inadvertently get pretty damn buff. Back when I was in the army, I also bulked up considerably after being a very skinny person beforehand. I do think the arms portrayed in a lot of "tough" female characters are on the unrealistically scrawny side, having been there and done that.

Yeah, but that's what I'm talking about. There's fit/athletic, and there's the way women's upper bodies are often portrayed (noodle arms with no visible muscle tone), regardless of what they do in the story. Which just tells me the character artist gave no thought to the character's background or lifestyle. Like, nobody would look at my arms and say they're bulky, but they're also definitely not the arms of a skinny 15-year-old, either.

I never played a Mass Effect game, so I don't know about the characters the OP may be talking about, but it's something that's distracted me as I play video games.

 

[MetalMagpie]

I meant the extremes of dimorphism, not any differences at all.

"Humans quite boringly un-dimorphic when it comes to sex."

Really? Beards and chest hair? Mammary glands far larger than for sustenance of babies and throughout adulthood? These are not slight differences, these are discrete differences not varying extents.

I think gender equality HAS taken so long BECAUSE of gender dimorphism! It really does seem that men have huge a differences from women and the ascribe values to those differences. They value relative physical strength and height. Look throughout history of women almost consistently being given the menial unpleasant tasks in the division of labour

I personally find females being only half the size of males (or a different colour entirly) to be far more striking than a difference in distribution of hair! (A difference that Western society exaggerates by women tending to shave their legs and armpits.)

Mammary glands are a gender-specific feature of all mammals, so they don't count as a point of sexual dimorphism any more than the penis does. The size (and number) of the mammaries varies a lot from species to species (in the same way that the size of the penis and testes does). They can be quite large on humans, but pigs are also very well endowed in this regard.

It's interesting to note that primates are somewhat unusual among mammals in that (in many species at least) males have nipples, which is not the case for dogs, cats, horses, rodents, etc. This makes the two sexes appear more similar than they might otherwise be!

I agree with you that our level of sexual dimorphism may well have played a part in the way "gender politics" developed, as strength and speed are more easily proven skills than "emotional intelligence" (which is what women are thought to be better at, along with having more dexterous hands and a greater tolerance of pain).

 

[Someone Depressing]

Woman typically have more fat, thus building up a higher threshold, meaning they can take more of a punishment than men. They also have some other genetics in them which protects them.

But, some women are pretty buff. As to why the females in ME are like toothpicks stuck through a pair of connected-grapes, I don't know either.

 

[Indecipherable]

Woman typically have more fat, thus building up a higher threshold, meaning they can take more of a punishment than men. They also have some other genetics in them which protects them.

CITATION NEEDED.

Seriously this is bullshit.

Look at HW boxers and see just how much they can take because of their size.

Men have more dense bone structure.

Men have more muscle which is significantly more resilient, heavier and thicker than fat.

Men are just so much more physically capable in competitions, in fights, that it is just a world apart.

I put these kind of bizarro and clearly wrong (just google any of those and you'll see what I have written is true) statements as misguided feminism or some attempt to find gender equality. It's simply incorrect.

 

[Treblaine]

I meant the extremes of dimorphism, not any differences at all.

"Humans quite boringly un-dimorphic when it comes to sex."

Really? Beards and chest hair? Mammary glands far larger than for sustenance of babies and throughout adulthood? These are not slight differences, these are discrete differences not varying extents.

I think gender equality HAS taken so long BECAUSE of gender dimorphism! It really does seem that men have huge a differences from women and the ascribe values to those differences. They value relative physical strength and height. Look throughout history of women almost consistently being given the menial unpleasant tasks in the division of labour

I personally find females being only half the size of males (or a different colour entirly) to be far more striking than a difference in distribution of hair! (A difference that Western society exaggerates by women tending to shave their legs and armpits.)

Mammary glands are a gender-specific feature of all mammals, so they don't count as a point of sexual dimorphism any more than the penis does. The size (and number) of the mammaries varies a lot from species to species (in the same way that the size of the penis and testes does). They can be quite large on humans, but pigs are also very well endowed in this regard.

It's interesting to note that primates are somewhat unusual among mammals in that (in many species at least) males have nipples, which is not the case for dogs, cats, horses, rodents, etc. This makes the two sexes appear more similar than they might otherwise be!

I agree with you that our level of sexual dimorphism may well have played a part in the way "gender politics" developed, as strength and speed are more easily proven skills than "emotional intelligence" (which is what women are thought to be better at, along with having more dexterous hands and a greater tolerance of pain).

A beard isn't a striking distinguishing feature? Peoples have painted their skin all sorts of colours and in one individual varies by tanning in sunlight, but you can't fake a beard without relatively modern technology and until relatively recently all adult males would have had a beard or some form of facial hair. Beards are still given certain innate values. You can see from how in the most basic sense a beard expands the otline of the jaw, emphasising and already masculine trait of larger lower jaw.

You ignored the part about SIZE of mammary glands, women have them large (larger than they need to be) throughout their adult life rather than just growing to the size needed in the 9 months from impregnation to delivery. This is very unique to humans.

"gender politics" Is a pretty nice way of putting how men have totally dominated and subjugated women throughout recorded history. Only very recently have women even begun to be treated equally or equivalently.

The problem is emotional intelligence isn't valued by men. Strength is. It is evident in our language that was largely defined by male writers.

 

[neversleep]

oh god could we really just drop the gender issue. This is getting freaking ridiculous.

In games in the future all women will be muscled and have beards, that way they can't complain they're being a sex objects or they're being portrayed unfairly. That way we can all enjoy the adventures of Carol the bearded bodybuilder without anyone getting a hissy-fit over gender politics.

Here's a newsflash. games are products of productivity, like movies or books. I can write a whole book about beating women and not be discriminating depending on the perspective or reason why I write these books. If I write a satire about how hilarious it is to watch Hilary Clinton getting beat up by her ex-husband. It's in poor taste but not necessarily discriminating against women. Maybe I just hate Hilary Clinton.