She gave no indication he'd done anything to deserve the rape claim aside from the fact they had dated and broke up after a couple of years. It was the way she said it too: I COULD get him charged with rape, rather than I SHOULD get him charged with rape, or other girls need to be protected (or something like that). She really just wanted revenge because the relationship didn't go well.NinjaDeathSlap said:Luckily I don't think many people are that vindictive, but, yeah...Flare Phoenix said:Yeah, I heard in some countries if a woman, at any time, decides she was raped it is considered raped. That means a woman can consent, they can have sex, and afterwards she can go "Well that wasn't very good. I was raped!". Now tell me that is not unfair.NinjaDeathSlap said:Just to counter balance what I am about to say I will clarify that their are no people more disgusting than those who will blame their sick twisted attitudes towards women on somebody else's fashion sense! However...
The laws that surround what actually constitutes rape are very convoluted and not very fair. I have a family friend (nicest man you'll ever meet btw) who has been to prison for 5 years for rape. The details are that his wife (who was having an affair and looking for a way out of their marriage behind his back at the time) gave him oral one night. She later claimed in court that for 5 seconds (yes, 5 fucking seconds) of the act that it wasn't consenting.
And he went to prison...
for 5 years...
WTF!
I did a short course a few weeks back, and this girl was going on about how she was going to claim her ex-boyfriend had raped her because they had had sex when she was 17 (she is 25 now). She said outright it would be purely for revenge, and that she had consent at the time. You want to know the sick thing: all of her female friends agreed that it would be the right thing to do...
No one deserves to be raped, but my god some deserved to be punched in the face...
Out of interest, what did the ex do that made her want to fabricate a rape charge to get revenge? Couldn't she just have broken a load of his stuff, or taken a shit on his bed like normal insane ex-girlfriends do?
Please explain to me how it can possibly be the victim's fault if they are drugged with rohypnol.Agayek said:The second type is one more commonly found in colleges/frat houses and the like. This type is purely about the sex. It's usually assisted with some form of chemical, be it alcohol, rohypnol or whatever else you want to use. This instance is generally (and nowhere near always) one of shared blame. Obviously most of it lies with the attacker, and they are the one who should be punished severely. That said, the victim is at least partially responsible.
In the case of rohypnol no, but I believe is someone goes out, gets completely wasted, they should be held responsible for their actions. But if someone slips something into their drink, hell no.cobra_ky said:Please explain to me how it can possibly be the victim's fault if they are drugged with rohypnol.Agayek said:The second type is one more commonly found in colleges/frat houses and the like. This type is purely about the sex. It's usually assisted with some form of chemical, be it alcohol, rohypnol or whatever else you want to use. This instance is generally (and nowhere near always) one of shared blame. Obviously most of it lies with the attacker, and they are the one who should be punished severely. That said, the victim is at least partially responsible.
Well it's like the law that says if a robber breaks into your house and cuts himself on a knife you had left lying around, he can sue you for injury.RT-Medic-with-shotgun said:Look mate me and Google are going to find out about this so maybe some key words to find a news article?NinjaDeathSlap said:tbh with you I really don't know how it came to that, I wasn't at the trial and he doesn't like to talk about it much (He was lucky the judge could have given him even more time but I think he took pity). Without wishing to be cynical I honestly think that when most juries hear the word "rape" they literally stop listening to anything the defense has to say. Such is the stigma that surrounds a crime like that the countries greatest defense barrister could offer all the proof of innocence he liked but as far as the jury is concerned the guy's as guilty as sin and deserves to spend the rest of his life nervously watching his back in the showers.RT-Medic-with-shotgun said:I want to know more of that case and i stated it as though i were clicking the more info button on the news terminal in the (god forsaken piece of shit) Starship Troopers movie.NinjaDeathSlap said:I'm sorry this is probably me being stupid but I don't understand?RT-Medic-with-shotgun said:*clicks the button that says 'Would you like to know more?"*NinjaDeathSlap said:Just to counter balance what I am about to say I will clarify that their are no people more disgusting than those who will blame their sick twisted attitudes towards women on somebody else's fashion sense! However...
The laws that surround what actually constitutes rape are very convoluted and not very fair. I have a family friend (nicest man you'll ever meet btw) who has been to prison for 5 years for rape. The details are that his wife (who was having an affair and looking for a way out of their marriage behind his back at the time) gave him oral one night. She later claimed in court that for 5 seconds (yes, 5 fucking seconds) of the act that it wasn't consenting.
And he went to prison...
for 5 years...
WTF!
A dorky way of saying i want to know more of how the court got to that standing.
Also the idea that a few seconds during sex can justify it as rape is bull shit. That judge had better have been disbarred, that jury fined, and his wife(sorry if shes family but she is a **** if she pursued charged for that) and she deserves jail time for wasting court time and resources, worsening the gap on what is consent and rape.
The laws seem designed to allow women to criminalize sex they regret because its so fucking easy and so many get away with it.
And apparently in Marryland it is 100% legal for a woman to say 'Get the fuck out of my snatch or i yell rape" and if he doesn't register what she said, pull out and get off/out from under her within 5 seconds it is legally rape.
How can a law like that even get passed?
Did you even bother reading this before you <a href=http://tailerag.blogspot.com/2009/08/there-is-discussion-between-me-and.html>copy and pasted it?Arizona Kyle said:*snip*
Yes, heterosexual men are often sexually attracted to women. What's your point?Arizona Kyle said:before i'm label as a sexist, please let me explain. i'm not saying guys can't control themselves and that everytime they see some skin that they go "OH MY GOD!!! LET'S RAPE!!! XD
but it is a fact however that seeing sexily dressed women stirs a reaction in them. Come on guys, be frankly honest, just what sort of thoughts enter your mind when u see a really scantily-clad woman? i hardly doubt that your thinking, "oh wow, that SO makes me wanna read a book?"
Anyone lacking self-control to that degree has no place in a civilized free society. Guts have nothing to do it; forcing yourself onto a defenseless woman is pretty much the most gutless thing you could possibly do.Arizona Kyle said:the difference is, guys like you and me have self control, we don't go act out what we are thinking cause we understand that it's wrong; either that or we haven't got the guts, lol i of course am going with the latter =P
She already had another partner... and two girls (which she had gotten from her ex-boyfriend who she was claiming "raped" her). I feel bad for the girls if they're going to grow up believing they can get what they want through rape claims.NinjaDeathSlap said:Wow, I gotta say I'd be tempted to warn off any guys she might have lined up for the future if I were you.
wow, I gotta say I'd be tempted to warn off any guys she may have got lined up for the future if I were you.Flare Phoenix said:She gave no indication he'd done anything to deserve the rape claim aside from the fact they had dated and broke up after a couple of years. It was the way she said it too: I COULD get him charged with rape, rather than I SHOULD get him charged with rape, or other girls need to be protected (or something like that). She really just wanted revenge because the relationship didn't go well.NinjaDeathSlap said:Luckily I don't think many people are that vindictive, but, yeah...Flare Phoenix said:Yeah, I heard in some countries if a woman, at any time, decides she was raped it is considered raped. That means a woman can consent, they can have sex, and afterwards she can go "Well that wasn't very good. I was raped!". Now tell me that is not unfair.NinjaDeathSlap said:Just to counter balance what I am about to say I will clarify that their are no people more disgusting than those who will blame their sick twisted attitudes towards women on somebody else's fashion sense! However...
The laws that surround what actually constitutes rape are very convoluted and not very fair. I have a family friend (nicest man you'll ever meet btw) who has been to prison for 5 years for rape. The details are that his wife (who was having an affair and looking for a way out of their marriage behind his back at the time) gave him oral one night. She later claimed in court that for 5 seconds (yes, 5 fucking seconds) of the act that it wasn't consenting.
And he went to prison...
for 5 years...
WTF!
I did a short course a few weeks back, and this girl was going on about how she was going to claim her ex-boyfriend had raped her because they had had sex when she was 17 (she is 25 now). She said outright it would be purely for revenge, and that she had consent at the time. You want to know the sick thing: all of her female friends agreed that it would be the right thing to do...
No one deserves to be raped, but my god some deserved to be punched in the face...
Out of interest, what did the ex do that made her want to fabricate a rape charge to get revenge? Couldn't she just have broken a load of his stuff, or taken a shit on his bed like normal insane ex-girlfriends do?
ok. so if get completely wasted and somebody steals my wallet, i should be held responsible for my actions? what if i pass out drunk and someone kidnaps me and steals my kidney? i'm just trying to get a handle on the ground rules here.Flare Phoenix said:In the case of rohypnol no, but I believe is someone goes out, gets completely wasted, they should be held responsible for their actions. But if someone slips something into their drink, hell no.cobra_ky said:Please explain to me how it can possibly be the victim's fault if they are drugged with rohypnol.Agayek said:The second type is one more commonly found in colleges/frat houses and the like. This type is purely about the sex. It's usually assisted with some form of chemical, be it alcohol, rohypnol or whatever else you want to use. This instance is generally (and nowhere near always) one of shared blame. Obviously most of it lies with the attacker, and they are the one who should be punished severely. That said, the victim is at least partially responsible.
I agree with everything you said, with 2 exceptions:Spot1990 said:Except that mentality implies we should treat everyone as a potential mugger. If a girl wears sexy clothes she's not waving it in anyone's face. Unless, as you said, she goes somewhere that is known for that kind of behaviour. But even still a person shouldn't commit rape. The victim may not have acted in the smartest way, but no one is making the rapist be a sick fuck. The rapist is the one who chose to commit the horrible act. There's nothing wrong with wearing sexy clothes, rape is decidedly bad.DrOswald said:It's kinda like saying if you don't want to be robbed don't take your nice shit and wave it in front of potential muggers.Spot1990 said:It's kinda like saying if you don't want to be robbed don't own nice shit.
Yes. That is absolutely correct. You should not tell a rape victim that she did something stupid.RT-Medic-with-shotgun said:So because you said we don't need to we shouldn't inform the person they did a foolish act? We should let them go on living in ignorance so it happens again? Should someone that dresses provocatively, behaves in such a manner, and gets raped by her date not be told she did somethign stupid?
Glad we agree on something. Even if it is only common sense.Agayek said:Okay, first off, there's two different "types", for lack of a better term, of rape cases. The first is an aggressive power struggle between the attacker and the victim, wherein the attacker is seeking to prove their own virility and dominance over another human being via sex. This is abhorrent, and is always the fault of the attacker. Every. Single. Time.
And ... this is where similarities of opinions break down. No ... No .... No ... blame by common sense should not be the status quo, but one of the protection of ideals. There is no sharing of 'blame' ... someone put somthing in someone's drink ... sure someone should have known better, butyou're talking about someone who has merely done exactly as another from the above paragraph ...The second type is one more commonly found in colleges/frat houses and the like. This type is purely about the sex. It's usually assisted with some form of chemical, be it alcohol, rohypnol or whatever else you want to use. This instance is generally (and nowhere near always) one of shared blame.
As opposed to fear and paranoia on the sake that you're likely to be called stupid by the first police officer that picks you up right? And bull fucking shit it's in anyway the victim's fault. You're describing as if "Oh, I failed to see that car speeding past that red light before making my turn ... I'm partially at fault" ...Also, where the fuck did all this cultural bullshit set in? I have never said, or implied, that there should be limits on what people want to do. All I'm saying is that there are some instances where the victim is indeed at fault. These instances are when the victim could have avoided the whole thing if they took sensible precautions. They shouldn't be punished or held accountable for being attacked, but the fact of the matter is, they did something stupid. Washing that away just because they were attacked doesn't help anyone.
Right, because ghettoization is a natural part of society. Heaven forbid if society and judicial services allowed for gentrification with the movement of people with money through poor neighbourhoods. That's kinda like opening up a store in a bad part of the city to promote jobs and then blaming the owner when it gets looted. And once again ... it's a purely social problem.If I get mugged while wearing nice clothes in a bad neighborhood, I'm partially to blame, because I made myself a target while vulnerable. People, at their core, are animals, and they will take advantage of such vulnerability. All it takes is to take reasonable precautions and it's extremely unlikely you'll be a victim. And if you are unlucky enough to be a victim, you'll at least have the knowledge that you did everything you could.
AlkalineGamer said:Oh how very 'black and white'.chowderface said:Blaming the victim is basically the polite version of saying "I fully support the perpetrator."
I don't care what kind of excuses victim-blamers will make to tell me I'm wrong, and I'm looking at it too black-and-white, and it's not fair to make it a dichotomy like that, but you know what you fucking, you just don't. You just don't do that.
Rape especially. Something like assault you could almost get away with saying the victim deserved it if the victim was well known as a gigantic asshole but rape, no, never.
A person who would rape is probably a bad person anyway.
The last thing they need is to be provoked.
If you covored yourself in bacon, then got mauled by an animal, then alot of the blame does rest with you.
I see the world very clearly now. Women who wear revealing clothing get raped, men who earn a lot of money get robbed, the way to a bear's heart is through bacon, people who bully others in school get shot, and someone who shoots someone else eventually wakes up to find themselves tied to the bed and slowly being flayed so they can be choked to death with a rope made from their own skin while they watch because why did you shoot me, Steve? why didn't you just put the gun down and walk away, Steve? just think, Steve, you could have prevented this if you hadjust walked away!RedEyesBlackGamer said:I fail to see how wearing revealing clothing is walking by someone going "Molest me! You won't do it!".Generic Gamer said:Only if you're a deliberate idiot about it. Frankly it's been proven that rape is the fault of the perpetrator but in other cases yes, sometimes people get themselves into trouble. It's like walking into a road and expecting the cars to get out of the way.RedEyesBlackGamer said:That line of thinking is dangerous.
"You just shot that guy!"
"He was acting like a douchebag. He was asking for it."
Imagine if I walked up to you in a bar and told some guy I fucked his mother so hard I split her in half, he then understandably punches me. I am technically the victim of assault and battery...but by God I caused it!
If you actually bothered to read my post, I said a completely wasted person is responsible for THEIR actions. Which means, if you get completely wasted and agree to have sex with someone in your wasted state, you shouldn't be allowed to sober up and claim it was rape just because you did something you regret.cobra_ky said:ok. so if get completely wasted and somebody steals my wallet, i should be held responsible for my actions? what if i pass out drunk and someone kidnaps me and steals my kidney? i'm just trying to get a handle on the ground rules here.Flare Phoenix said:In the case of rohypnol no, but I believe is someone goes out, gets completely wasted, they should be held responsible for their actions. But if someone slips something into their drink, hell no.cobra_ky said:Please explain to me how it can possibly be the victim's fault if they are drugged with rohypnol.Agayek said:The second type is one more commonly found in colleges/frat houses and the like. This type is purely about the sex. It's usually assisted with some form of chemical, be it alcohol, rohypnol or whatever else you want to use. This instance is generally (and nowhere near always) one of shared blame. Obviously most of it lies with the attacker, and they are the one who should be punished severely. That said, the victim is at least partially responsible.