Blaming the victim

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Snip

I agree but question is, if she was looking rather unattractive, would he have done it? I agree with what you're saying but minor nitpick with your analogy.

I mean look at these two pictures of the same person.

Spoiler: It's Megan Fox, yes they are SFW

One looks far more attractive than the other >.>

I don't suppourt blaming the victim in any way by the way, I guess it really depends on the person who's doing the rapist or are there not as 'tasteful?' Do they just decide to do it to someone regardless of who they are? Does it even matter what clothes they wear?

That second picture looks far more attractive.

 

[The_Blue_Rider]

Id say even if the victim is wearing "skimpy" clothing they dont deserve to be raped, or should even be called stupid. Can we not express ourselves without fear of being sexually assaulted or the like?

 

[Nouw]

Snip

I agree but question is, if she was looking rather unattractive, would he have done it? I agree with what you're saying but minor nitpick with your analogy.

I mean look at these two pictures of the same person.

Spoiler: It's Megan Fox, yes they are SFW

One looks far more attractive than the other >.>

I don't suppourt blaming the victim in any way by the way, I guess it really depends on the person who's doing the rapist or are there not as 'tasteful?' Do they just decide to do it to someone regardless of who they are? Does it even matter what clothes they wear?

That second picture looks far more attractive.

Was my point exactly.

 

[Cyberwulf]

Secondly - It's not the proven false ones I'm worried about... it's the number of ones where an innocent dude is found guilty incorrectly that concerns me...

You know how many innocent men are convicted of rape based purely on the word of the victim?

Zero. None.

I looked at the case histories listed on the Innocence Project website. You know what was a big factor in a lot of these guys going to jail? The cops. The police decided ahead of time that they knew who did it, and pressured the victim to pick the "right" man out of a lineup. Or they fucked up the DNA testing. Or they outright ignored the victim's testimony because it didn't fit, as when one victim insisted her attacker was a smoker when the guy the cops arrested was asthmatic. Instead of whining about evil bitches using rape accusations as revenge, take a look at the system.

Thirdly - An accusation of rape (even if subsequently proved false) can ruin a dudes life forever. And we don't see anybody leaping up and down screaming about how unfair that is, do we?

An accusation of any crime can ruin someone's life forever. But since you're so worried, it's actually quite easy to avoid being falsely accused of rape. Here are my tips:

1. Don't have sex with someone who's been drinking or taking drugs - even if they insist they're fine. You have no way of knowing how much they'll remember.
2. Don't have sex with total strangers.
3. Don't have sex with crazy people.
4. Don't get drunk/high at someone else's house if there's even an outside chance that later you'll crawl into a woman's bed and try to have sex with her.
5. If you are being chivalrous and are putting a drunk woman to bed, don't do it alone. Have one of her girlfriends go with you. When the woman's in bed, leave the room first.
6. Don't have sex with someone who's sleeping or unconscious, even as a sexy wakeup call.
7. If a woman says no, assume she means it.
8. Don't pester a woman until she gives up and lets you do what you want.
9. Listen for an enthusiastic "yes!", not just the absence of "no".
10. If she says stop, no matter how far along you are in the process, stop.
11. If she asks you to use a condom, use a condom.
12. In short - ONCE YOU'RE IN BED WITH SOMEBODY, DON'T ACT LIKE A FUCKING PIG.

 

[Blood Countess]

simple as this, blaming the victim is saying it;s okay for men to do whatever the fuck they want to women be it rape, murder or whatever

This crap is disgusting

 

[OutforEC]

Snip

I agree but question is, if she was looking rather unattractive, would he have done it? I agree with what you're saying but minor nitpick with your analogy.

I mean look at these two pictures of the same person.

Spoiler: It's Megan Fox, yes they are SFW

One looks far more attractive than the other >.>

I don't suppourt blaming the victim in any way by the way, I guess it really depends on the person who's doing the rapist or are there not as 'tasteful?' Do they just decide to do it to someone regardless of who they are? Does it even matter what clothes they wear?

That second picture looks far more attractive.

Was my point exactly.

I saw Transformers. Therefore I like the second picture better, the one where she's being throttled.

OT: The victim should never be blamed for being raped, but in some circumstances I can definitely see them being blamed for being stupid.

 

[Lord Kloo]

I'm going to put a different light on this thread:

In 2007 in the USA there were a rough total of 90,000 rapes or attempted rape cases (USA Census Bureau). There will always be a few cases that hit the news because the victim may have been to blame or was actually blamed. It can be guarantied that most cases that go to court will end up with the accused being found guilty/not guilty depending on evidence, etc..

Source: http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/law_enforcement_courts_prisons/crimes_and_crime_rates.html Section Number: 310

EDIT: Also the victim is sometimes to blame in law for the crimes committed against them. Example: Aggravation of the defendant in any way generally is seen as the victims fault but the victim usually doesn't carry the sentence it usually ends with a lesser sentence for the defendant.

 

[Jonluw]

Rape is of course not the victim's fault just because they dress scantily, but you should still avoid walking alone downtown in a miniskirt when you know there are rapists out there. It's not your fault, but you're still pretty stupid for putting yourself into harms way like that.

 

[Titan Buttons]

Victims can no tbe blamed for something that's happened to them but there are several people that falsely accusse people of rape.
The fact that people place blame on clothing for the disgusting actions they have committed is just such B*&%%#*&T and should be slapped across the face before being institutionalised

 

[Wutaiflea]

There are some very strange ideas flying around here.

Rape victims are usually acutely aware of their own responsibility- I have never (with the exception of victims with other psychological problems) spoken to a rape victim who has been unable to accept that walking home down a dark alley was a dumb idea, or that leaving their drink unattended at the bar was a dumb idea.

The point is, in these circumstances, is it okay to say they deserved to be raped for their lapse in judgement?
How many of you have walked home drunk? Or cut through a dark alley late at night? How many of you decided to walk home late rather than get a taxi? Practically every single person in the world, and the people reading this, will have done more than one of these things on many occasions.

The point is, even with a lapse of judgement, no one deserves to be raped. The important thing for most victims is to acknowledge that, whatever they did, they didn't deserve to be raped and were not responsible for the actions that were taken on the part of the other person.
In an ideal world after all, people wouldn't get jumped in alley ways, or be able to leave their drinks on the bar while they nip for a pee.

It's easy to say that a victim who gets drunk and agrees to have sex with a man she's known for a few hours should've been more careful, but did they deserve to be gang raped by that man's friends?

There are also behaviours some people exhibit which are not their own fault, but nonetheless make it easy for them to become victims.
Some people have said they do not understand how this 11 year old girl in the OP could have been repeatedly abused, but this is extremely common.

Some people, particularly children, are eager to receive reward and praise, and as such, will often capitulate to the will of an adult, no matter how inappropriate it may feel to them. The behaviours that can be learned from this are extremely damaging, and will often result in damaging behaviour in the future, such as seeking domineering and violent partners, or becoming sexually promiscuous in order to gain some control over their sexuality. These people sometimes become primed to be a victim.
This kind of thing requires much counselling and sometimes cognitive behavioural therapy to overcome- it's not something that can be solved by saying "why didn't you just say no, or tell someone?"

 

[Lawyer105]

An accusation of any crime can ruin someone's life forever. But since you're so worried, it's actually quite easy to avoid being falsely accused of rape. Here are my tips:

1. Don't have sex with someone who's been drinking or taking drugs - even if they insist they're fine. You have no way of knowing how much they'll remember.
2. Don't have sex with total strangers.
3. Don't have sex with crazy people.
4. Don't get drunk/high at someone else's house if there's even an outside chance that later you'll crawl into a woman's bed and try to have sex with her.
5. If you are being chivalrous and are putting a drunk woman to bed, don't do it alone. Have one of her girlfriends go with you. When the woman's in bed, leave the room first.
6. Don't have sex with someone who's sleeping or unconscious, even as a sexy wakeup call.
7. If a woman says no, assume she means it.
8. Don't pester a woman until she gives up and lets you do what you want.
9. Listen for an enthusiastic "yes!", not just the absence of "no".
10. If she says stop, no matter how far along you are in the process, stop.
11. If she asks you to use a condom, use a condom.
12. In short - ONCE YOU'RE IN BED WITH SOMEBODY, DON'T ACT LIKE A FUCKING PIG.

Well... since you're going to take that approach, here's my tips for avoiding rape.

1. Don't dress like a whore.
2. Don't tease people into your bed and THEN say stop.
3. Don't walk around outside alone at night.
4. Don't invite friends over to your place.
5. Don't go visit friends at their place.
6. Don't go out to clubs or other social venues.
7. Don't drink something your best friend handed you 'cause it might be drugged.
8. Don't leave the house.

There we go. Break any of those AND YOU FUCKING HAD IT COMING!

How's that?

 

[Random berk]

Wearing provocative clothing might make a woman a more appealing target, that doesn't make the perpetrator any less of a scumbag.

That's just it:

While I agree that the Toronto officers choice of words and candor were inappropriate, I think what he said wasn't exactly wrong. Of course, you are never, EVER to blame the victim for the crime that was committed against them, but let me throw this scenario to you:

A guy is walking through a rough neighbourhood waving a wad of cash around, and he gets mugged.
Now, obviously the one who mugged the guy is in the wrong 100%. That was illegal, and he should be punished.
And the guy should have the right to wave around money as much as he wants without fear of being attacked and robbed. But it's a naive and dangerous game to play. Ideally, I should be able to leave my doors unlocked, my keys in my car, and my money on my counter. But it's asking for trouble if I do any of those things.

Again, not my fault if someone robs me. I have the right to leave my door unlocked, my money out, and my keys in my car. But, at the risk of sounding redundant, it's dangerously naive to do any of those things.

I can certainly see where your coming from. I think there's a certain difference though. If you walk through a rough neighborhood, I mean really rough, with a wad of cash, then odds are whoever robs you needs money to feed their family, and that matters more to them than the rights of some stranger. Of course, there are scum out there who'd rob you even if they weren't in that situation,, but less of them, I'd like to think.
The rapist doesn't have that excuse. What does he gain besides pleasure? Who is he supporting? In his case, he is simply seeing something he wants, and making a conscious decision to take it by force.

 

[ELD3RGoD]

I got into a massive fight with a gang about a year ago. Me and my best friend were surrounded literally by 10-13 guys, all of our age and higher and it was dark and no help was around. I called my brother and when he got there is was still 3 vs. 10. It kicked off and I ended up getting elbowed several times in the temple and was out cold for 10 minutes but in the end, the police believe the gang over us.

They listened to the gang and ALL of its members, over the people who could have been stabbed or killed. They didn't even bother to defend us. They just let them go without even a slap on the wrist.

I told the police woman that the she and all of the justice system can eff itself and if i'm ever in that situation again, I will be carrying around some sort of protection.

Yeah, sure, knives are bad, but after you have been in a situation that you might never have come back from, it changes you.

 

[Latinidiot]

Well that's a nice theory but the police officer was giving more useful real-world advice. Remember that you can look from a point of idealism but the officer has to be pragmatic and frankly he's probably right in real life.

Rape's a tricky one, I can't say as I fully understand the whats and whys but in some other non rape related cases yes, the victim really does cause the situation themselves. It's perfectly fair to blame the victim if it really is their fault.

That line of thinking is dangerous.
"You just shot that guy!"
"He was acting like a douchebag. He was asking for it."

Yes that's completely relevant.

If someone's raped that's tragic, and the rapist should be punished no matter what. If the girl was walking around nekkid, it could have been prevented by wearing more decent clothing something. And that makes it even more pointless and tragic. If you dress to get attention, you can expect some. None of this justifies rape, but if it does happen, the girl can be blamed for being a bit stupid.

 

[DemonicVixen]

-snip-

I've been assaulted twice and neither time I was wearing anything revealing, Jeans and a basic t-shirt (the first time I was sporting plain work clothes). I never asked to be abused, I never flirted with the guys who done it, I never even knew one of them and 2 be honest I was wary of him in the first place since it was working on a night shift alone with a strange man. They seemed to "see something in me" that made them want to do it.

I NEVER think that people deserve to be abused or raped based on clothing or attitude. I cant deny however that some girls have no respect for themselves. They snog and dance inappropriately with strange men and often can send the message across that their "easy". Men take this as a signal and often go for the women. Usually its alcohol clouding their better judgement, other times its just their own sick mind. The woman refuses, the guy gets annoyed and takes what he feels is "his" regardless.... Or vice versa if its a woman on man.

Of course there are the ones who claim rape or abuse even though it never happened and often its hard to pin-point whether it did. Some rapists claim the victim wanted it and is lying about being raped. This is a rather disgusting act which can ruin lives for both victim and criminal. The one lying about being raped can ruin the so called attacker's life, and the attacker claiming the victim is lying, if believed, can ruin the victims life by his/her abuse/rape.


Just as a quick story on what I mentioned about girls flirting and dancing:
I was in a disco the other night with some friends and I noticed 2 guys looking rather tipsy from alcohol, having a good time together etc. Some lasses (one who I knew as a work colleague's young sister), were together dancing when the guys went over to them, each taking a girl. The girl who I didnt know, was dancing VERY innapropriatly, letting the guy touch her bum, stroke her body and even snogging (full on tongue action). It was obvious this girl didnt know them. Both guys were giving eachother eye contact and showing they were enjoying this little display from the lass. They eventually wandered off and the girl sat down looking satisfied... Here was me, watching, thinking, "there has been a rape not far from here recently, and a case of abuse also not far away. Yet here are 2 young girls, flirting and acting sexual with strangers, who could well be rapists."

I might not agree that the victim should be blaimed, but for god sakes people, GROW UP! Its one thing to have a laugh, but inappropriate behaviour IS asking for trouble unfortunatly whether you mean it to or not. It just takes the wrong guy or even woman to flirt with or snog and allow to touch you and you could be in BIG trouble at the end of the night.
God, some will even go with strangers in their cars. I wont even go with my ex boyfriend in HIS car because I cant trust he wont try anything (not that he has ever come across as that type of guy, but that can change instantly)

 

[DemonicVixen]

11. If she asks you to use a condom, use a condom.

should correct that lol... EVERYONE should use a condom regardless of asked.

1) STD's
2) Pregnancies

Unless their your partner and your both clean of STD's and trying for a baby, then and ONLY THEN should a condom not be used

Many guys have had a one night stand and didnt use condoms just because they were'nt asked. This ISNT a one sided game peeps. Both parties should be protected with condoms ( the woman should at least have protection against pregnancy if the guy has the condoms). Often they find out several months later that they're a dad, or a woman finds out she's going to be a mother but doesnt know the dad.

 

[Gigano]

Could the type of clothing a person wear be a causal factor in some assaults?

In some instances, possibly so.

Is there any blame whatsoever to assign to people for wearing whatever legal clothing they want?

Absolutely not.

Causality - to the extent it exist - and culpability are not the same thing. All that "temptress" crap belong in the middle ages, and so do anyone who'd use it to put blame on victims of sexual assault.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Rape is of course not the victim's fault just because they dress scantily, but you should still avoid walking alone downtown in a miniskirt when you know there are rapists out there. It's not your fault, but you're still pretty stupid for putting yourself into harms way like that.

One thing that everybody seems to be ignoring is that the whole 'blame the victim' thing is not only a disgusting pardon of unacceptable behaviour, but makes no sense. The clothes you wear, how late you're out, and whether you know any self-defense actually has an incredibly small effect on your chances of being raped. Getting intoxicated around a whole lot of strangers has an effect, but not as big as one would think; most people are raped by people they know, not random violent strangers. Statistically, claiming that walking home at night in a miniskirt is stupid is like claiming that having an expensive car is stupid because it increases the chances of people robbing you. (Obviously this varies between neighbourhoods.)

 

[Jonluw]

Rape is of course not the victim's fault just because they dress scantily, but you should still avoid walking alone downtown in a miniskirt when you know there are rapists out there. It's not your fault, but you're still pretty stupid for putting yourself into harms way like that.

One thing that everybody seems to be ignoring is that the whole 'blame the victim' thing is not only a disgusting pardon of unacceptable behaviour, but makes no sense. The clothes you wear, how late you're out, and whether you know any self-defense actually has an incredibly small effect on your chances of being raped. Getting intoxicated around a whole lot of strangers has an effect, but not as big as one would think; most people are raped by people they know, not random violent strangers. Statistically, claiming that walking home at night in a miniskirt is stupid is like claiming that having an expensive car is stupid because it increases the chances of people robbing you. (Obviously this varies between neighbourhoods.)

I'd say it's more like parking your 458 Italia in a bad neighbourhood.

I suppose the question is if the miniskirt really factors in on it or not. Walking through a bad neighbourhood alone at night is a bad idea no matter what you wear. Rapists gonna rape I guess.

Though I remember reading a study that showed you are significantly more likely to be robbed if you're walking with your ipod's earbuds in your ears.