Blizzard is suing hackers

[Twilight_guy]

Ah fun times. Debates over the rights of gamers to modify products bought from game companies. Where does the line of "I bought it" meet with the lie if "we made it and won the rights". Such a good debate topic. Unfortunately both sides are chocked with idiots that would like nothing more then to drop napalm bombs on other side so nothing ever gets done. It always devolves into an idiotic flame war. I'll let the courts have their say and work from their. Have fun fighting the internet wars (no matter who wins, we all lose).

 

[Gindil]

And by the way don't avoid my question for you explain to me how is hacking forcing out standard on your but you telling us how we should play is not? Saying "thats how the cookie crumbles" isn't enough you have enough gall to tell us not to force our way on you but then say we should play YOUR way you better back that up.

This point was not directly aimed at me, but I still feel the need to answer it.
Personally I think that you're just arguing for argument's sake here, but I'll still consider it a valid point.

First of all, Pendragon isn't the one who's telling you how to play the game, the developers did when making it. In a way your argument falls apart on its' absurdity based on the fact that you're actively trying to justify these negative modifications with an argument that can be boiled down to "my personal freedom".

Firstly I'd like to point out that the multiplayer environment you play in is not in any way anarchistic, but is in fact a benevolent dictatorship. As such you have no right to play the game in "your own way" by using third party modifications. There are rules in place to ensure a fair competition between players, and to prevent the derailing of the game mechanics.

Compare this to real-world sports, they don't allow you to put spikes on the shoulder pads in NFL, nor do they allow you to bring a gun to a boxing match.
For instance, how would it be if, say Mike Tyson went in the ring with a challenger of clearly inferior skill, and said challenger were to simply shoot him in the gut, then take home the grand prize.

Would that be a fair game? No.

If you see how utterly silly that scenario is, then you'll understand my point; just replace boxing with Starcraft, Mike Tyson with the enemy AI (in the campaign), this challenger with a player, and the gun with a memory editor.
What is the difference here?

I think this needs to be addressed a lot more. Why is SC1 turning out to be a better deal that going through all the hassle of SC2?

The rules aren't as stringent in any way shape or form. Why should I work in Blizzard's "playground" when the rules are taxing what I feel is innovation. Of course, there's going to be some games that are truly unique with the editor, that much is certain. But as it's coming up, there's really no point in going for SC2.

Not only do I have to worry about them taking down my hard work and creations (which can run into an homage to a various number of games) but there's also the fact that just because of it being on their servers, they have final say in everything?

I believe this is truly missing what a game is for. Fun, entertainment, and diversion. Maybe you're just learning the toolsets and want to make a Pacman game. Oops, can't share it. Maybe you want to just sit back, cheat and see how the final level of a game is like without Blizzard's say so. Oops, achievement unlocked, now I'm banned. As I see it, it's Blizzard's stringent policies that make this truly astounding.

Bungie handled it quite well with a temporary ban, then changing the hacks so they don't work. I think that would have worked far better than dumb litigation.

Finally, regarding sports, there's always different leagues and different rules. There's the NFL, but there's also the Arena Football League. I believe we can already discuss Kurt Warner being a successful representative of a great adjustment from one to the other.

 

[Digitaldreamer7]

They are defending my online game experience. Why should I be pissed about that?

Exactly this. I earned those achievements and I play the game the way it was designed. Thank you blizzard for having the guts to defend my gameplay experience from assholes who seek to ruin it by hacking/exploiting. I'll keep buying your products as long as you keep takin' out the trash. Fuck you to anyone who defends this and/or does it. I hope you die of aids and I also hope blizzard sues you

 

[Spy_Guy]

Not only do I have to worry about them taking down my hard work and creations (which can run into an homage to a various number of games) but there's also the fact that just because of it being on their servers, they have final say in everything?

I believe this is truly missing what a game is for. Fun, entertainment, and diversion. Maybe you're just learning the toolsets and want to make a Pacman game. Oops, can't share it. Maybe you want to just sit back, cheat and see how the final level of a game is like without Blizzard's say so. Oops, achievement unlocked, now I'm banned. As I see it, it's Blizzard's stringent policies that make this truly astounding.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/939643-starcraft-ii-wings-of-liberty/cheats

These codes will give you the exact same effect, BUT disable achievements for that playthrough. This way, people who just want to get to the end can do just that in a fair manner. You don't "accidentally" activate a trainer and then use it to gain achievements, especially since you had to pay 25$ for it, when there's proper cheat codes to be found.

Bungie handled it quite well with a temporary ban, then changing the hacks so they don't work. I think that would have worked far better than dumb litigation.

The people caught using these trainers were temporarily suspended, and most likely had their achievements reset. Please note the temporary here.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/104294-Blizzard-Gives-Single-Player-StarCraft-2-Cheaters-a-Time-Out-Opens-Can-of-Worms-UPDATED

I think Blizzard is being too nice to these cheaters, especially the ones that used this in multiplayer. Compare Valve-Anti-Cheat, which completely destroys an account by adding some name and shame as well as preventing you from ever connecting to VAC secured servers.

Finally, regarding sports, there's always different leagues and different rules. There's the NFL, but there's also the Arena Football League. I believe we can already discuss Kurt Warner being a successful representative of a great adjustment from one to the other.

That may be true, but it's hardly relevant. There's still no leagues where one team can just shoot the opponents. I was using this to demonstrate the absurdity of allowing performance-enhancing game modifications.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

Even Valve is known to buy games hackers make(like Counter Strike, which is a half life mod).

There is a difference here. When Counter-Strike was developed, it was free and was developed using tools produced by Valve precisely for the purpose of encouraging mods. When the game was successful, Valve simply offered to purchase the property and it's associated assets (i.e. people). Such a move is hardly charitable, an expression of goodwill or good faith or what have you. It is simply an avenue that allows excitable amateurs to try their hands. Such people have literally nothing to lose in such an endeavor and thus can take risks. By simply releasing such tools to the community at large, Valve simply cultivates a free of charge R&D system along with an associated talent pool of people willing to work very hard for free. Valve is not alone in this: Id, 3D Realms, Epic, Bethesda and others commonly release tools players can use to mod the game for more or less the same list of reasons.

Unreal didn't start out as the de fact standard engine for modern FPS games - it was done by building a strong community of developers, having very slick tech and reasonable licensing fees.

Blizzard's approach isn't what I would call ideal but rather than looking at it like petty bullying, consider it instead as a zealous protection of a property. Blizzard and Activitision have a lot at stake ensuring people keep playing their various games, or more specifically keep paying. Cheaters drive people away from online play as quick as game breaking bugs. Alternate WoW servers offer consumers more choices. Sure, encouraging people to make mods for your game is all well and good, but Blizzard sits in control of several of the most profitable franchises in history. They have good reason to protect such things. It probably isn't the route I would choose, but I understand why they take it.

 

[Aphex Demon]

Damn straight, well in Blizzard.

 

[Jake the Snake]

I fail to feel any sympathy for hackers or pirates of any sort. They get what they deserve. It's just stupid to think they weren't going to get caught.

 

[Gindil]

Not only do I have to worry about them taking down my hard work and creations (which can run into an homage to a various number of games) but there's also the fact that just because of it being on their servers, they have final say in everything?

I believe this is truly missing what a game is for. Fun, entertainment, and diversion. Maybe you're just learning the toolsets and want to make a Pacman game. Oops, can't share it. Maybe you want to just sit back, cheat and see how the final level of a game is like without Blizzard's say so. Oops, achievement unlocked, now I'm banned. As I see it, it's Blizzard's stringent policies that make this truly astounding.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/939643-starcraft-ii-wings-of-liberty/cheats

These codes will give you the exact same effect, BUT disable achievements for that playthrough. This way, people who just want to get to the end can do just that in a fair manner. You don't "accidentally" activate a trainer and then use it to gain achievements, especially since you had to pay 25$ for it, when there's proper cheat codes to be found.

I never said anything about an accidental activation. Yes, they're actively seeking out a source to cheat that isn't Blizzard's. What I've discussed is the fact that the achievements don't necessarily matter, but are linked to the game more for e-peen +1 rather than some actual need to unlock.

Bungie handled it quite well with a temporary ban, then changing the hacks so they don't work. I think that would have worked far better than dumb litigation.

The people caught using these trainers were temporarily suspended, and most likely had their achievements reset. Please note the temporary here.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/104294-Blizzard-Gives-Single-Player-StarCraft-2-Cheaters-a-Time-Out-Opens-Can-of-Worms-UPDATED

Then dividing the community with litigation and causing further harm to their reputation with crazy lawsuits? That wasn't handled well.

I think Blizzard is being too nice to these cheaters, especially the ones that used this in multiplayer. Compare Valve-Anti-Cheat, which completely destroys an account by adding some name and shame as well as preventing you from ever connecting to VAC secured servers.

Since Blizzard isn't privy to releasing logs, I can't say that some people are using them in multiplayer.

And please note: Drunken f00l [http://steamcommunity.com/id/df/] is a banned account. But he can still play away on servers that aren't as secure, not necessarily the entire game as with SC2.

Finally, regarding sports, there's always different leagues and different rules. There's the NFL, but there's also the Arena Football League. I believe we can already discuss Kurt Warner being a successful representative of a great adjustment from one to the other.

That may be true, but it's hardly relevant. There's still no leagues where one team can just shoot the opponents. I was using this to demonstrate the absurdity of allowing performance-enhancing game modifications.[/quote]

I'm failing to see the gun example...

Let's keep this to RTS strategy. There's a few things I could do if someone were hacking and cheating, namely quit and find other players or try a trainer myself. With all of the micromanaging that Blizzard is doing, it isn't making the community worthwhile to be in.

Blizzard bans league play except through them.
Blizzard tells us what we can make as maps.


In effect, I'm showing the absurdity of their stance. After 10-15 years of gaming, I'm sure people have found ways to get around hackers and cheaters. None have yet to involve litigation until now.

 

[Pendragon9]

snip

You say stop trying to force every game to fit your standards but your doing that to use. You not wanting us to mod our games is saying follow my way of playing. And I bought official guides and they are not worth it, unofficial stuff on gamefaqs and forums are more helpful(lost odyssey is a example). And that last line where you said we have to get them the same way everyone else gets them, that's forcing your standard on how we should play OUR GAMES. Please explain to me how hacking forces our standard on you but telling us how to play is not?

Well, I'm afraid that's how the cookie crumbles man. Blizzard took alot of time to make this game and I know I'd hate it if someone else just breezed through it and cheated in multiplayer just to get hollow victories.

Look, you can keep trying to validate it all you want, but you'll never convince me hacking in this game is okay. Maybe in other games, but not this one.

Also, I heavily agree with Spy_guy up there. He basically said my entire opinion on this issue.

Well explain to me why hacking in any other game (even ones without modding tools given by the dev) is ok but it's bad when you use it to earn a token achievement which has no real value (a guy recently got 500,000 achievement points on xbox live but what can he do with the points?). Explain to me why achievements are enough reason to go up in arms about over this. Should the guys have sold the hacks no. Should hacks be used online, no unless it's a private server and both people consent to it (kinda like with pokemon). I'm just saying you guys need to stop freaking the hell out over hacks, people on this thread say good hackers are good for nothing (at act like it atleast) but those same hacks and mods gave us games like tf2 and counter strike. It even uncovered Namco's secret of Darth Vader being on the disc of SC4 for the 360(which they removed all the videos of on youtube), which was done THROUGH HACKING. And fyi a hack is the same as a mod, because some modding tools 3rd party people give out (like a save file editor) was made by hacking the save file to figure out the values needed to be changed around. And you said Blizzard took a lot of time to make SC2, what about Rock Star who took a lot of time hiding Hot Coffee from the ESRB someone HACKED the game to find it. So yeah a mod and hack aren't the same, but a lot of 3rd party modder tools people make for popular games (even some map makers for rts) where made through hacking. And as to what Spy_guy said,

"These modifications were legitimate modifications made for positive reasons, just like the modifications to Oblivion, STALKER etc.
The makers of those mods have, incidentally, not been sued either."

Problem is they still had to use illegal methods to make them work, it's either hacking is bad or good. You can't say they were legitimate is they had to reverse engineer the files(like a save editor for a game like roller coaster tycoon) and for something like this. Both require hacking files to find which values needed to be changed.

And by the way don't avoid my question for you explain to me how is hacking forcing out standard on your but you telling us how we should play is not? Saying "thats how the cookie crumbles" isn't enough you have enough gall to tell us not to force our way on you but then say we should play YOUR way you better back that up.

I do apologize, but you can't convince me. Hacking in Starcraft 2 is NOT okay by me. You're free to hack if you want. I won't force my opinion on you. But i'd respect it if you stopped forcing your opinion on me.