Blizzard Throws Down With Valve Over DOTA Trademark

[Starke]

This is Blizzard basically yelling that everything ever made on any of their world editors belongs to them. Fuck 'em, hope they lose this, doubt that will be the case.

Now, that said, I'm by no means an expert on legal matters, so here's a question. What would happen if Valve just made DotA2 without trademarking it? Would the trademark be public domain or something? Because if that's the case, Valve isn't right in this whole deal either.

Edit: By the way, how artistically and morally bankrupt do you have to be to plaster your own name on other people's work - better work - and try to sell it on that name alone?

It's a fair bet that the trademark dispute is over two points. First the name, which Blizzard got as part of the Warcraft 3 EULA, and second is aesthetic. From what I've read, Icefrog was actually dictating they get as close to the Blizzard assets as they could legally get. Individually this would be fine, IE one or two models, but when we're talking sound, models, and so on, it could easily get into territory where it could create reasonable confusion for the consumer. Which is the entire point of Trademark law, preventing someone from confusing the consumer by slapping out a product so similar it's impossible to distinguish them.

Now, at a glance from what little I can find on DOTA2, there's enough similarity on character designs alone to probably support a trademark suit, and this is before you consider that DoTA is a Blizzard trademark.

 

[Starke]

Actually, DotA has nothing to do with blizzard other than being on warcraft 3...

...which, according to the Warcraft 3 map editor EULA, grants them the copyright to anything created with it.

So unless DotA was secretly developed on privately generated tools, which is, I guess possible, the trademark actually belonged to Blizzard all along.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

This isn't a Valve is always right but Blizzard does not have a leg to stand on here and they have literally no case as far as I can see. They have done nothing about the other clones out there for one. Secondly, this was a mod made by people not affiliate with Blizzard it just happened to be on Warcraft 3. I may wrong on that with a clause in an EULA or something. Thirdly, thus far no modders that I know of who were involved in the project have come out against it and 1 is even working on the game.

So as far as I know with the copyright laws in America over the whole Scrolls thing with Zennimax needing to enforce copyright or lose it. That is how it works. So since Blizzard has not been enforcing its copyright it should in legal theory going by of course that this is how it works has already lost copyright. Now this may be a steaming pile as I do not know a lot about the laws but it seems this is the case.

 

[Aeonknight]

Hmm this is actually an interesting debate. Although mods are fan created, since they use/include elements from the main game (which is owned by the original devs), does that mean ownership of the mod could still be assigned to the dev's, or is it up for grabs by anyone?

I know with most MMO's, any character you create is still property of the game's owners (which is why it's technically against TOS to sell toons), but this is a bit of a gray area.

 

[Stainlesssteele4]

Being as there are currently 25,000 people playing Dota 2, I don't think Valve will let Blizzard win this one. Not to mention that Ice Frog is currently working at Valve, and he's contributed a lot to Dota as a whole, and I feel like that, coupled with Valve having purchased the rights to several mods before, they have a lot going for them. Blizzard has a point, but with Dota 2 so far along, and being a player myself, I don't want Blizzard to come out the victor on this one.

 

[CaptainKoala]

If Blizzard had picked up Counterstrike when it was still a mod and made whole game out of it, they'd be within their rights to copyright it. Same goes for Valve and DOTA.

 

[Realitycrash]

Uh, Valve? Why try to sucker-punch Blizzard like this? You got plenty of great games to make money from, and DotA is clearly a Warcraft 3 Mod, so..What's up?
Oh, you think you can make your OWN DotA-like game with your own characters? Near! Then why don't you name it something other than DotA 2?

 

[Starke]

Actually, DotA has nothing to do with blizzard other than being on warcraft 3...

...which, according to the Warcraft 3 map editor EULA, grants them the copyright to anything created with it.

So unless DotA was secretly developed on privately generated tools, which is, I guess possible, the trademark actually belonged to Blizzard all along.

And i also believe Valve avoided that by turning it from an acronym into a word.

Attempted to, at any rate. But simply turning it into an acronym, while simultaneously, continuing to ape the Warcraft 3 art style and retaining the overall game mechanics is much dicier.

I mean, the conceptual test (not the actual legal test) for Trademark is "can this confuse the consumer as to who is producing this?" In this case, yeah, yeah it can.

This isn't a Valve is always right but Blizzard does not have a leg to stand on here and they have literally no case as far as I can see.

Nice to see all the legal experts weighing in. They didn't act on the other DotA clones because they didn't look like Blizzard products, and they weren't named in such a way that they appeared to be Blizzard products.

 

[Akisa]

Uh, Valve? Why try to sucker-punch Blizzard like this? You got plenty of great games to make money from, and DotA is clearly a Warcraft 3 Mod, so..What's up?
Oh, you think you can make your OWN DotA-like game with your own characters? Near! Then why don't you name it something other than DotA 2?

Well one of the creators who should own part of the rights to DotA has join valve. So unless the others who created the mod challenges Valve or Blizzard has purchased the rights from the modders then there is no violations.

 

[Realitycrash]

Uh, Valve? Why try to sucker-punch Blizzard like this? You got plenty of great games to make money from, and DotA is clearly a Warcraft 3 Mod, so..What's up?
Oh, you think you can make your OWN DotA-like game with your own characters? Near! Then why don't you name it something other than DotA 2?

Well one of the creators who should own part of the rights to DotA has join valve. So unless the others who created the mod challenges Valve or Blizzard has purchased the rights from the modders then there is no violations.

The creators used tools given with WC3, as far as I know, and used WC3 characters/mechanics. Creating a mod gives you zero ownership what you have created, basically it's something the owners allow, as long as you don't try to market it.
Yes, Blizz isn't officially owning DotA, but Valve trying to create a whole new game and call it "DotA 2" is just a fucking dick-move.

 

[Starke]

Uh, Valve? Why try to sucker-punch Blizzard like this? You got plenty of great games to make money from, and DotA is clearly a Warcraft 3 Mod, so..What's up?
Oh, you think you can make your OWN DotA-like game with your own characters? Near! Then why don't you name it something other than DotA 2?

Well one of the creators who should own part of the rights to DotA has join valve. So unless the others who created the mod challenges Valve or Blizzard has purchased the rights from the modders then there is no violations.

It's this... well, sort of. Most game editor EULAs specify that anything you create with it is the property of either the developer or the publisher. Warcraft 3's sides with the developer (as I recall), and so the original DotA actually belongs to them. Now, (and this is just my recollection) Blizzard has said that they have no interest in capitalizing on that trademark, but, that they would defend it to ensure it stayed available for (at least their) community('s) use.

 

[Starke]

Yes, Blizz isn't officially owning DotA,

you have ninjaed me... But, in all seriousness, they actually do officially own DotA thanks to the aforementioned EULA, and as I recall did claim a trademark on it at some point, though my own apathy on the subject means I've no idea when that was exactly.

 

[TheScientificIssole]

Icefrog was the developer of the DoTA mod. Valve owns them now, and has Icefrog working on DoTA 2. I think Valve wins.

 

[Realitycrash]

Yes, Blizz isn't officially owning DotA,

you have ninjaed me... But, in all seriousness, they actually do officially own DotA thanks to the aforementioned EULA, and as I recall did claim a trademark on it at some point, though my own apathy on the subject means I've no idea when that was exactly.

Well, what I wanted to say is "Noone was registered DotA as a trade-mark", probably because it was already covered by the EULA.

 

[somonels]

[HEADING=1]/whine, prease![/HEADING]

This is Blizzard cockblocking Valve who lusts for his daughter.

 

[TheScientificIssole]

Icefrog was the developer of the DoTA mod. Valve owns them now, and has Icefrog working on DoTA 2. I think Valve wins.

I have an idea! get one of the original devs of DOTA to copyright it for himself, and then just let Valve have it! I'm sure that the original devs have a better case than either of the 2 companies!(I have no idea how these copyright laws work!)

One of the original devs is in Valve now

 

[Starke]

Yes, Blizz isn't officially owning DotA,

you have ninjaed me... But, in all seriousness, they actually do officially own DotA thanks to the aforementioned EULA, and as I recall did claim a trademark on it at some point, though my own apathy on the subject means I've no idea when that was exactly.

Well, what I wanted to say is "Noone was registered DotA as a trade-mark", probably because it was already covered by the EULA.

Yeah, which gets into a really weird place, honestly. Though, and again, this is faint recollection, my recollection was that Blizzard did file a trademark on Defense of the Ancients, at some point. But, hell if I can remember the details.

Icefrog was the developer of the DoTA mod. Valve owns them now, and has Icefrog working on DoTA 2. I think Valve wins.

Valve bought him in Dubai?

But, yeah, it doesn't work like that. Icefrog worked on the original Mod for Warcraft 3. Blizzard owns Warcraft 3, and due to their EULA anything made for Warcraft 3. Ergo, Blizzard owns Defense of the Ancients. Icefrog does not. Icefrog would never have owned Defense of the Ancients even if it wasn't a Warcraft 3 mod because it wasn't his project, he just helped. Now he works for Valve, but we can hope he isn't "in Valve now" because that just sounds dirty. He can tell Valve what he did, and how he did it, but he can't give them something he never owned.

 

[Realitycrash]

Yes, Blizz isn't officially owning DotA,

you have ninjaed me... But, in all seriousness, they actually do officially own DotA thanks to the aforementioned EULA, and as I recall did claim a trademark on it at some point, though my own apathy on the subject means I've no idea when that was exactly.

Well, what I wanted to say is "Noone was registered DotA as a trade-mark", probably because it was already covered by the EULA.

Yeah, which gets into a really weird place, honestly. Though, and again, this is faint recollection, my recollection was that Blizzard did file a trademark on Defense of the Ancients, at some point. But, hell if I can remember the details.

Icefrog was the developer of the DoTA mod. Valve owns them now, and has Icefrog working on DoTA 2. I think Valve wins.

Valve bought him in Dubai?

But, yeah, it doesn't work like that. Icefrog worked on the original Mod for Warcraft 3. Blizzard owns Warcraft 3, and due to their EULA anything made for Warcraft 3. Ergo, Blizzard owns Defense of the Ancients. Icefrog does not. Icefrog would never have owned Defense of the Ancients even if it wasn't a Warcraft 3 mod because it wasn't his project, he just helped. Now he works for Valve, but we can hope he isn't "in Valve now" because that just sounds dirty. He can tell Valve what he did, and how he did it, but he can't give them something he never owned.

Why don't Valve just create a DotA-esque game and market it "developed by/with some/one of the creators of the original DotA!"?
I mean, movies are marketed like this all the time..