Blizzcon - World of Warcraft - Warlords of Draenor

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Loop Stricken

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Jun 17, 2009
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Okay so basically;

Garrosh escapes to Draenor pre-Outlandifying, to stop his father and the other Orc clans from drinking the demon blood.
Plans to make a new Horde and bring them into the future to take over present-day Azeroth.
We have to stop him.

It's not 'our' past, it's like a divergent timeline. But they can still come from Draenor, with modern-day technology that Garrosh somehow took with him, to wage war on the modern-day Azeroth.

(Personally I'm more annoyed at this 20-man Mythic raiding screwing my guild over, and the fucking docile new look the tauren will get)
 

AuronFtw

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Nov 29, 2010
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Warcraft lore was irrevocably ruined by WC3, with hippie cowpeople, spacegoats, and the entire ruination of the high elven/blood elven lore and their departure from their centuries-old alliance due to 1 racist dipshit in a backwater outpost. And then the themselves-racist night elves magically deign to join the alliance, despite the humans and orcs razing a roughly equal amount of forested area during their arrival on Kalimdor...

Yeah, pretty much anyone who thinks WoW is ruining lore now missed the boat by about a decade. The only "neat" thing to come out of WC3 was the Arthas and Illidan rivalry, the rest of it was utter hogwash. WoW would have been better off retconning that shit, going back to a time pre-WC3, where that silly shit hadn't happened, the great orcs vs humans war was at its peak, and heroes rose up on each side... wait. That's the premise of this expac? Going back to that golden age before WC3 cocked everything up?

Holy shit, sign me up. I don't even care if I have to enter a magical plot-healing time machine.
 

Loop Stricken

Covered in bees!
Jun 17, 2009
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Muspelheim said:
less risk they'll ruin my dear Tauren. Although I would not be too surprised if they get the stripper-treatment, too. But I'll live in hope.
Oh you poor naive fool.
Old tauren [http://media.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2013/november/bconArtOfWoW067.jpg].
BEHOLD TAUREN 2.0 [http://media.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2013/november/bconArtOfWoW068.jpg]
 

Roofstone

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May 13, 2010
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Really looking forward to this. My orcess is gonna look great! Yaaay!

And the story sounds interesting, it will be fun to revisit old lore.
 

Terminate421

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Jul 21, 2010
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Loop Stricken said:
Muspelheim said:
less risk they'll ruin my dear Tauren. Although I would not be too surprised if they get the stripper-treatment, too. But I'll live in hope.
Oh you poor naive fool.
Old tauren [http://media.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2013/november/bconArtOfWoW067.jpg].
BEHOLD TAUREN 2.0 [http://media.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2013/november/bconArtOfWoW068.jpg]
This is why the Worgen are far surperior for Furry Character Design
 

Compatriot Block

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Jan 28, 2009
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For the record everyone, the free level 90 is a one-time boost that your account gets when you buy the new expansion.

Only one. It is not a cash-shop product. Just a way to get people to come back who might otherwise be turned away by a lonely slog through outdated content.

They did this before with the Scroll of Resurrection system. Basically if your friend had been inactive for a certain (fairly large) chunk of time, you could sort of "re-invite" them to the game.

They got a free upgrade to Cataclysm (which, by the way, is now part of the basic 20$ package) and could choose to boost one of their characters to level 80, where it would get a starter set of appropriate gear.
 

synobal

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Jun 8, 2011
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Next expansion the characters go back in time to kill the developers of world of warcraft to stop it from ever existing, there by freeing them from their meaningless existence.
 

Muspelheim

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Loop Stricken said:
Muspelheim said:
less risk they'll ruin my dear Tauren. Although I would not be too surprised if they get the stripper-treatment, too. But I'll live in hope.
Oh you poor naive fool.
Old tauren [http://media.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2013/november/bconArtOfWoW067.jpg].
BEHOLD TAUREN 2.0 [http://media.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2013/november/bconArtOfWoW068.jpg]
Oh. Oh, dear. Well... Does not look too promising. It's a rather... Vacant expression. Although I do like the little feathers, they are a nice touch. But I am very sceptical of those little leather underpants.

They seem to have left the wiremesh alone, though. It's the female Tauren I'm really worried about, considering how they've had one of the game's least messed up body proprotions so far. But... Yes. Hmm... We will see.

Terminate421 said:
This is why the Worgen are far surperior for Furry Character Design
The Worgen lassies look a bit messed up (tragic victims to the Poaldanz Disease and the Herpasnarl), but it's alright. I really do like the Worgen, I think they were what made me defect to the Alliance.

AuronFtw said:
Warcraft lore was irrevocably ruined by WC3, with hippie cowpeople, spacegoats, and the entire ruination of the high elven/blood elven lore and their departure from their centuries-old alliance due to 1 racist dipshit in a backwater outpost. And then the themselves-racist night elves magically deign to join the alliance, despite the humans and orcs razing a roughly equal amount of forested area during their arrival on Kalimdor...

Yeah, pretty much anyone who thinks WoW is ruining lore now missed the boat by about a decade. The only "neat" thing to come out of WC3 was the Arthas and Illidan rivalry, the rest of it was utter hogwash. WoW would have been better off retconning that shit, going back to a time pre-WC3, where that silly shit hadn't happened, the great orcs vs humans war was at its peak, and heroes rose up on each side... wait. That's the premise of this expac? Going back to that golden age before WC3 cocked everything up?

Holy shit, sign me up. I don't even care if I have to enter a magical plot-healing time machine.
Well, I... Don't entirely agree, but I really do see your points. Even if I liked how they expanded the world a lot with WC3, it's also the ground zero, in many ways. Many interesting things and plots introduced and then poorly managed, something that have continued to plagued the series ever since.

I'm not in entire agreement, but I really do see the point. The thing is, though, I don't think a reboot of sorts is going to help much. Continuity issues and time travel plot holes are going to kick the back of the seat all the way, and the problem with trimming away a decade or so of the lore is... Well, it's a bit like the inevitably doomed reboot thing D.C. Comics just did. All the "bad" stuff is only going to be gone from the continuity for a little while, until the writers start to cave in and let bits of it drip back in again. And then a bit more, and then a bit more. Until it's even more silly when half of the post-Sharkjumping lore will be mixed with what will pass for pure lore in a soul-revolting tangle.

As messy as it is, these are the cards we've been dealt. While they make an unsteady foundation, they'd be better off building off that instead.

(All of the above carrying a big "In My Opinion"-banner, of course)
 

Icehearted

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Fireaxe said:
Perhaps I'm wrong, and I hope I am.. but honestly this just reads like an excuse for a series reboot. Who knows, maybe it's just the end.
It certainly cannot last forever, and it's still a huge cash cow, and people do tend to fear and loathe change.

I dropped out some time ago shortly before WotLK, but even then it was an addendum-riddled "casserole of nonsense". Could be said that was it's strength and it's weakness from a narrative standpoint, but that would depend on who you ask. All I ever feel about it is confused.
 

miketehmage

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Jul 22, 2009
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Ryotknife said:
so...we are going back to outlands, but the past version of outlands when the horde and draenie first fought? From what I remember, the war wasn't even a war, but a one sided slaughter as the draenie were caught completely by surprise by the Horde's sudden personality shift due to demon blood they ingested.

Not to mention, I don't remember the original horde having Gronn siege weapons.....and the heroes are going back to...stop warcraft from ever happening?

Didn't the bronze dragons (you know, the experts of time travel) say that would be a bad thing? I seem to remember them arguing that we should stop the infinite dragonflight from preventing whatshisface in the Caverns of Time from opening the Dark Portal because without the events of Warcraft 1 and 2, Azeroth would have been unable to repel the demon invasion.

This is confusing as hell.
Basically this, except it isn't confusing. It's just Blizz being dumb.

I'm not particularly excited as I have been let down by every expansion since WOTLK and the game is more broken now that it ever has been. In terms of pvp at least.
 

Muspelheim

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miketehmage said:
Ryotknife said:
so...we are going back to outlands, but the past version of outlands when the horde and draenie first fought? From what I remember, the war wasn't even a war, but a one sided slaughter as the draenie were caught completely by surprise by the Horde's sudden personality shift due to demon blood they ingested.

Not to mention, I don't remember the original horde having Gronn siege weapons.....and the heroes are going back to...stop warcraft from ever happening?

Didn't the bronze dragons (you know, the experts of time travel) say that would be a bad thing? I seem to remember them arguing that we should stop the infinite dragonflight from preventing whatshisface in the Caverns of Time from opening the Dark Portal because without the events of Warcraft 1 and 2, Azeroth would have been unable to repel the demon invasion.

This is confusing as hell.
Basically this, except it isn't confusing. It's just Blizz being dumb.

I'm not particularly excited as I have been let down by every expansion since WOTLK and the game is more broken now that it ever has been. In terms of pvp at least.
Oh. Holy Christ. I had faint hopes they might find a way to iron that big, glaring plot hole out, but no such luck, then?

In terms of PvP, I... I still remember the Reign of the Frost Mage. It was as if they'd simply chosen one class to rule them all for a few months and left it like that.
 

RJ 17

The Sound of Silence
Nov 27, 2011
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Further proof that they're milking this game as long as they possibly can, having killed off all the main baddies of the series. First they went to Outland to fight Illidan and the Burning Legion. Fair enough, that was a loose end left after the end of Frozen Throne that needed to be tied up. Then they went up north to take down Arthas and the Scourge. Alright, another loose end from Frozen Throne, you finally get to kick his ass. Then they brought back....Deathwing? Wait, didn't he die back in Beyond The Dark Portal when Outland kerploded? And even if he didn't die...how the fuck did he get back to Azeroth? Ummmm....oooooohhhhkaaaaaaay...the evil black dragon lord is back...ummmm, right. Then they bring out the Pandas, an expansion based off of what was originally an April Fools Joke YEARS ago in vanilla WOW that suggested that Pandarens were going to be a playable race. Really? That's how far you're reaching to keep this game going?

And now they're going BACK to Outland Draenor and pitting you up against the old (and quite dead) heroes of the Horde just for shits and giggles? Under the guise of "We're trying to prevent Azeroth's bloody past from happening again!"

Wait a tick...wasn't that one of the objectives in one of the Caverns of Time scenarios? The evil black time-dragons or whatever were trying to go back and prevent Medivh from opening up the Dark Portal? Wouldn't that completely unravel time and destroy the world because, you know, THEY'RE FUCKING UP AZEROTH'S HISTORY?

 

EternallyBored

Terminally Apathetic
Jun 17, 2013
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AuronFtw said:
Warcraft lore was irrevocably ruined by WC3, with hippie cowpeople, spacegoats, and the entire ruination of the high elven/blood elven lore and their departure from their centuries-old alliance due to 1 racist dipshit in a backwater outpost. And then the themselves-racist night elves magically deign to join the alliance, despite the humans and orcs razing a roughly equal amount of forested area during their arrival on Kalimdor...

Yeah, pretty much anyone who thinks WoW is ruining lore now missed the boat by about a decade. The only "neat" thing to come out of WC3 was the Arthas and Illidan rivalry, the rest of it was utter hogwash. WoW would have been better off retconning that shit, going back to a time pre-WC3, where that silly shit hadn't happened, the great orcs vs humans war was at its peak, and heroes rose up on each side... wait. That's the premise of this expac? Going back to that golden age before WC3 cocked everything up?

Holy shit, sign me up. I don't even care if I have to enter a magical plot-healing time machine.
WC3 ruined the WoW lore? Honestly, they were mid 90's RTS games before that, there wasn't much lore to ruin. Now some of the lore changes in WC 3 weren't explained very well, and others were just there to force the setting away from its previous black and white morality, but that's because there wasn't really much to work with before WC3. I remember playing the first 2, they were fun RTS games, some of the best, but the story was basically just a giant ball of fantasy cliches with a generic as hell good versus evil plot, WC3 may have been a giant excuse to throw multiple factions together, but the lore from 1 and 2 was just a skeleton excuse to make fantasy good and evil races fight each other.

As for this expansion, time travel is cliche as hell, and I can't help but think it's all going to be a giant excuse to hit the restart button on everything that happened since WoW launched, so they can follow this alternate timeline for a sequel to the RTS series with WC4. If they ever do make WC4, they now have the perfect excuse to bring illidan and Arthas back to life, as well as every other boss killed throughout WoW history, won't that be fun.

To be fair, the plot is basically hobbled by WoW's own success. The game makes way WAY too much money for Blizzard to wrap everything up with the death of Kil'jaeden or Sargeras. So after Arthas and Illidan kicked the bucket, Blizzard just seems to be stalling as much as they can, they can't really shake up the story, because there's no way in hell they are going to invest the resources to bring new enemies in when they can just keep milking the old ones. Basically they are stalling for time, always giving themselves an out so they can release at least one more expansion, as long as the game remains as profitable as it is, the story will just keep meandering around with no goal in sight.

Even with Cata, you were at least still working your way through bosses, enemies and concepts introduced in WC 3. With Pandaria and now this, I think they honestly just have no idea where they want to go from here, they can't end it, but they have to keep releasing content, so the story shuffles on like a zombie, doomed to wander the land until WoW is no longer the cash cow, and they can finally put the whole thing down. And from the looks of it, they've given themselves an out if they ever need to hit the reset button on their lore.
 

EternallyBored

Terminally Apathetic
Jun 17, 2013
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RJ 17 said:
To be fair, the panda's were a sort of jokey rumor from WC3, and eventually one ended up as a hero and had his own story in the Horde campaign of the WC3 expansion. They've always been an official part of Warcraft's lore, just more as an Easter egg sort of thing. The Pandarens have been hinted at in other lore sources since WC3, but have mostly been a background thing that became popular because Blizzard kept joking about adding them to WoW on a couple different occasions. They were one of the Blizzard artist's pet creations, and he tended to draw a lot of sketches of them mixed in with his other Warcraft work, from there they kept slipping hints and references to them into the lore.
 

RJ 17

The Sound of Silence
Nov 27, 2011
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EternallyBored said:
RJ 17 said:
To be fair, the panda's were a sort of jokey rumor from WC3, and eventually one ended up as a hero and had his own story in the Horde campaign of the WC3 expansion. They've always been an official part of Warcraft's lore, just more as an Easter egg sort of thing. The Pandarens have been hinted at in other lore sources since WC3, but have mostly been a background thing that became popular because Blizzard kept joking about adding them to WoW on a couple different occasions. They were one of the Blizzard artist's pet creations, and he tended to draw a lot of sketches of them mixed in with his other Warcraft work, from there they kept slipping hints and references to them into the lore.
I know about the easter egg in WCIII ("You've found the secret Pandaren relaxing spot!" or whatever) and indeed the Brewmaster was one of the neutral heroes in Frozen Throne. Still doesn't change the fact that they based an entire expansion off of - by your own admission - a running joke.

Considering the rest of my post is about how desperate for ideas their writing team has become, I'd say that still fits in perfectly as a piece of evidence.
 

The Madman

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RJ 17 said:
Further proof that they're milking this game as long as they possibly can, having killed off all the main baddies of the series.
Keeping in mind I haven't played WOW in ages, I can think of quite a few major Warcraft villains that as far as I know are still around. Mind you I haven't been paying much attention recently and never did play Mists of Panderia or most of Cataclysm so I might be wrong, but still you should have:

-Kil'Jaeden The Deceiver, Leader of the Burning Legion.
-Queen Azshara, possibly the most powerful mortal on Azeroth and still MIA.
-Sylvanas, because let's be honest here it's only a matter of time before she turns on everyone.
-The Old Gods, who are still around doing Lovecraft stuff and not dying.
-Sargeras, the big baddie of the entire Warcraft setting.

Not to mention Kel'Thuzad was never actually killed and neither were a bunch of Dreadlords, so that's at least a couple old B list villains right there that are still around. Somewhere.

I'd always hoped Blizzard would do more with the Caverns of Time when I played, after all as an old fan of the Warcraft series I could think of plenty of neat scenario. Love to meet Lothar for example since he was my favourite Warcraft character. But making an entire expansion based around time travel? Mmmm... I dunno.

Blizzard definitely have my attention though, this is much more interesting than the panda were.
 

Vicarious Reality

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Jul 10, 2011
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OMG seriously, this is hilarious
This was the best they could think of?
At least the char models are being updated... lol
I have no major issue with Mop from what i can tell, gonna play through it and call it a life
 

aozgolo

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Mar 15, 2011
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While I've got no problem with the storyline of this expansion, I am a little disappointed that there's not much in the way of anything "new" being talked about, I mean I get that the races and classes are already oversaturated as is, but this is the FIRST time I've ever heard of a WoW expansion that did NOT include a level cap increase, maybe it does and I just missed it but from the page I read, nothing was mentioned. The fact that it talks about a less linear questing experience definitely alludes to you being able to quest in each zone at your leisure instead of a tiered progression which suggests no new level increase.

So yes we have new game content as is necessary for it to be an expansion but...

NO new races
NO new classes
NO level cap increase
NO new talents

I mean WoW set a precedent with their expansions adding NEW things alongside the new world content, you had flying mounts, siege engines, pet battles, higher level caps, hero classes, new races, updated leveling content, achievements, etc.

This time around, not to bash the new updates as they do look cool but they don't look "expansion worthy". Character model updates are certainly nice but I'm not itching to go re-sub on account of it. The Garrison feature looks interesting but it'll probably end up being something akin to a world PvP objective hub, and not something that really feels "personal", though I'll be honest I don't know enough yet to make a good judgement call on it since I don't know how it will work.

As for the instant level 90 thing, this is just an old hat trick updated, they did a scroll of resurrection promotion where you could update one character to level 80.

I'll look more into it but so far I just am not seeing enough things "new" outside the new zones/dungeons to make it really all that exciting.
 

RJ 17

The Sound of Silence
Nov 27, 2011
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The Madman said:
-Kil'Jaeden The Deceiver, Leader of the Burning Legion.
-Queen Azshara, possibly the most powerful mortal on Azeroth and still MIA.
-Sylvanas, because let's be honest here it's only a matter of time before she turns on everyone.
-The Old Gods, who are still around doing Lovecraft stuff and not dying.
-Sargeras, the big baddie of the entire Warcraft setting.

Not to mention Kel'Thuzad was never actually killed and neither were a bunch of Dreadlords, so that's at least a couple old B list villains right there that are still around. Somewhere.
Pretty sure Kil'Jaeden ended up being the final boss of Burning Crusade...and he's dead now.

Queen Azshara: Pretty sure she died in the Sundering. I'd sincerely have to hope that if she didn't they'd do something with her before backpeddling to something as silly as "Pre-Outland Draenor!" with a story that contradicts the story of the Caverns of Time. I mean didn't Illidan raise her castle out of the ocean in Frozen Throne when he called the Naga to his side? If she's still around, wouldn't we have heard from her by now?

Sylvanas is the leader of one of the races, so you might as well say that the leaders of the Blood Elves are fair game, that Thrall is fair game, and that the Arch Druid is fair game as well.

The Old Gods would be a bland fall-back seeing as how Arthas kills one in Frozen Throne and then we all killed one in Anubaraq or however it's spelled.

Sargeras: I'm still pretty sure that he's dead, though to be fair everyone I've spoken to assures me that he's still very much alive. THIS would be the only valid villain remaining in my book if he is indeed still alive. Though just like with Azshara, I'd have to hope they would have done something with him by now rather than going to Panda Land and now back to Draenor. I mean if they were going to do something with him, it should be now, shouldn't it? The level cap is a nice juicy 100 with this new expansion, seems as good a time as any to bust him out.

The reason they're not doing anything with him (if indeed he is still alive) is because if they did, they'd know they'd officially have to end the game after him. And like I said: they're not interested in ending the game, they're going to ride this gravy train until the biscuit wheels fall off and the engine blows up like Draenor after Ner'Zhul was done with it.

As for Kel'Thuzad and the Dread Lords: the frickin' Lich King - lord of all undead - has been defeated. His "advisor" and lieutenants aren't even worth the snot running out a dwarf in Northrend's nose.