Borderlands 2 "Girlfriend Mode" Helps Noobs Win

[Tanis]

In coming shit storm with radical feminists declaring jihad in

3...2...1...
Well, there we go!

 

[A Weakgeek]

You don't have to use it.

But hey, at least this time they're telling us the character balance is fucked, rather than letting us realise that Lilith is an unstoppable god-queen and Brick and Roland are borderline useless excepting in very specific class mods because elemental damage rules all.

No... they are saying that that particular class is good for people who have trouble aiming in FPSs. I'd bet that for a average player, that skill tree is probably not all that useful, since you'll probably be able to hit anyways.

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

snip

More toward the first guy you quoted now that I think about it.

Awesome! Except for the whole... you know.

I don't.

Now I'm intrigued.

 

[Evil Smurf]

ha! a game mode for me then

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

Great idea.

Can't wait to try it with my friends who suck at games. Can't wait to try the Hard Mode myself. Unsurprised at the combined sexism and pre-order DLC reaction from many others in this thread.

 

[SpaceBat]

At this point it looks like he was speaking about his own girlfriend and not women as a whole which is fine by me.

And even if he was, it wouldn't have been a big deal. It is a joke, but not taking everything too seriously and not foaming at the mouth at every sexist joke made is too much to ask from the Internet it seems (Not targeting you, by the way).

The outcry over Hitman, lara and other examples of serious, blatant sexism was completely understandable. Outcry over petty jokes like these make me shake my head in pity.

OT: Sounds like a somewhat decent idea I suppose. I still need to finish the first game though.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

At this point it looks like he was speaking about his own girlfriend and not women as a whole which is fine by me.

And even if he was, it wouldn't have been a big deal. It is a joke, but not taking everything too seriously and not foaming at the mouth at every sexist joke made is too much to ask from the Internet it seems (Not targeting you, by the way).

The outcry over Hitman, lara and other examples of serious, blatant sexism was completely understandable. Outcry over petty jokes like these make me shake my head in pity.

Oh I'd have a massive problem with it if it was called that in the game. But it's not so...yeah.

 

[SpaceBat]

Oh I'd have a massive problem with it if it was called that in the game. But it's not so...yeah.

How so? It would be using an obvious stereotype to bring out a chuckle. People know that girl gamers are in no way inherently inferior to guy gamers and such a title would be nothing but a mere joke. Why would you take it so seriously?

It would be like creating a hardcore gamer skill, where you increase your accuracy in exchange for higher shop prices or something, because of lack of social skills and having a pimple riddled face (crappy example, I know. Don't care). It would be jokingly insulting, but I have better things to do than throw a fit over petty stuff like this when there are more blatant, serious cases of sexism and racism (and many other issues) out there.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Oh I'd have a massive problem with it if it was called that in the game. But it's not so...yeah.

How so? It would be using an obvious stereotype to bring out a chuckle. People know that girl gamers are in no way inherently inferior to guy gamers and such a title would be nothing but a mere joke. Why would you take it so seriously?

It would be like creating a hardcore gamer skill, where you increase your accuracy in exchange for higher shop prices or something, because of lack of social skills and having a pimple riddled face (crappy example, I know. Don't care). It would be jokingly insulting, but I have better things to do than throw a fit over petty stuff like this when there are more blatant, serious cases of sexism and racism (and many other issues) out there.

Because it suggests that women can't play games and if they are playing games then they are only doing it with their boyfriend. As someone who has probably played games since before you (and hell maybe even the devs) were born I find that more than offensive.

It's as bad as casual racism.

There may be worse examples of sexism in gaming but that doesn't mean I would let shit like this slide.

 

[Mouse One]

The concept of a noob mode is a good one. A lot of games have something similar in that there's a class or item/weapon that is outpowered by better players in other classes, but is somewhat more forgiving for noobs. And everyone's a noob at least once.

Re: the girlfriend comment. Yeah, it's an off the cuff comment-- although hardly unique. But given the recent sexist nastiness about games on the internets, I won't fault folks for being a bit hair trigger. Let's do a little thought experiment: what would you think if a developer had come up with a mode in which you didn't have pay as much for upgrades and called it "Jew mode"? Even if he just jokingly called it that in an interview?

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

In coming shit storm with radical feminists declaring jihad in

3...2...1...
Well, there we go!

Well most people here would consider me a feminist and I was the first to actually go and check twitter to see what the crack was.

So at least some of us are checking the facts rather than just making sweeping statements.

what would you think if a developer had come up with a mode in which you didn't have pay as much for upgrades and called it "Jew mode"? Even if he just jokingly called it that in an interview?

South Park RPG has a character class called 'Jew' in place of cleric. That made me cringe a little bit, Cartman's sense of humour aside.

 

[SpaceBat]

Because it suggests that women can't play games and if they are playing games then they are onlydoing it with their boyfriend. As someone who has probably played games since before you (and hell maybe even the devs) were born I find that more than offensive.

It's as bad as casual racism.

There may be worse examples of sexism in gaming but that doesn't mean I would let shit like this slide.

I suppose my viewpoint is simply different from yours in such cases. I've never had any issues with sexist (or racist) jokes as long as they remain light jokes (taking it too far or showing any hint of actual misogyny/misandry or racism and you've got yourself an enemy). I sincerely doubt that the dev would be seriously suggesting that women can't play games by using such a title.

I understand that you take such things a lot more serious than I do and thus understand why you'd be angry over it, but I simply disagree. I view blatant jokes like these(as hilarious or tasteless as they may be) as something not worth my anger, because it's not the actual kind of sexism we should be focusing.


Something a bit off-topic:
And perhaps I'm a bad person because of this but I quite enjoy making racist (and sexist) jokes with good friends as we often use stereotypes of each other's culture, skin or gender and our own as a source of entertainment.

 

[Dr. Crawver]

If its anything like borderlands 1 focusing on one specific damage type leads to really boring gameplay. I quit Brick around level 20 because he was optimized around explosive damage only. He was super powerful but really repetitive.

In contrast the Siren's bullet speed and the Soldier's magazine capacity abilities makes all weapons better so you can choose not only what is best for the current situation but also whatever you think will be the most fun without sacrificing effectiveness.

The girlfriend mode thing is pretty funny but it makes sense. One of the main features of diablo style gameplay is the ability to choose your difficulty level based on your build. Borderlands 1 didn't have that because some skills were either terrible or highly situational so there really wasn't more than one build per character possible. It didn't matter because at least for me 3 of the 4 characters had enough variety to beat the vanilla game and the DLC.

But I'm hoping BL2 will have viable build choices so that my soldier doesn't play the same as my friend's soldier.

I played brick through to endgame, and I just said "fuck explosives, I want to be a literal brick", and so ignored the weapons tree for him almost entirely, and instead built a tank that when raging, pretty much physically could not die, my cool down between rage was pretty much non-existant, and the few times I did die, my "downed" status lasted over a minute. That was bricks shining area, survivability, not damage output.

As for the idea of this tree, I just know that the meta-making pros of borderlands will find some way to utilize the tree to broken levels

 

[Risingblade]

Soooo what if you're girlfriend is the one whose good at Shooters? Can we have a cute guy character with a boyfriend tree?

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Because it suggests that women can't play games and if they are playing games then they are onlydoing it with their boyfriend. As someone who has probably played games since before you (and hell maybe even the devs) were born I find that more than offensive.

It's as bad as casual racism.

There may be worse examples of sexism in gaming but that doesn't mean I would let shit like this slide.

I suppose my viewpoint is simply different from yours in such cases. I've never had any issues with sexist (or racist) jokes as long as they remain light jokes (

That's the problem though isn't it, it may be funny to you but it actually makes the people it's aimed at feel bad.

It's like the part of Risen 2 where you make you female companion work in the kitchen or the sex cards in The Witcher. It's shitty little things like that lowering the tone and making us all worse off.

It only goes to extend the 'boys club' attitude of gaming.

It isn't necessary.

Guild Wars 2 linked an ad for the gamer girl con and actually had to remove sexist comments from their feed. They then asked people outright to refrain from making such comments because they respect their female fan base.

That sentiment overrides any skimpy clothing they may stick their cloth classes in.

 

[Shamanic Rhythm]

I find it mildly amusing how people continue to insist that the gaming community has no problem with sexism and the whole issue is completely overblown.

What's discouraging about this latest story is not his remarks: that was just a dumb thing to say, but it was obviously arising from good intentions so there's no need to boycott the game. No, what's a little more discouraging is the way people are closing ranks around him rather than admitting that, during a period where the issue of sexism in the gaming industry is coming under intense media scrutiny, it was probably a dumb idea to publicly call it 'Girlfriend Mode'.

Because really, anyone who claims that that remark wasn't appealing to a sexist stereotype of female gamers has their head about forty miles deep in the sand.

 

[SpaceBat]

That's the problem though isn't it, it may be funny to you but it actually makes the people it's aimed at feel bad.

I am particularly venomous at the sign of actual racism and sexism, especially since I've been a victim of huge amounts of racism in the past and find the idea of inequality based on absolutely nothing to be infuriating. Stuff like "Stronger female armor means less clothing", "girls are always frail" archetypes, "a strong female character means she flips out a lot and is emotionally unstable (Triss from Witcher for example)" personality and generally most of the insulting stuff aimed at both men and women kind of tick me off, as they're often vital parts of a game that do nothing but insult a specific group. The thing is that I learned to accept completely insignificant racist or sexist jokes aimed at me as what they are: jokes. I know they don't mean it and I know they're just fooling around. I may or may not find it funny, but I'm not going to feel any negative emotions over it.

It's like the part of Risen 2 where you make you female companion work in the kitchen or the sex cards in The Witcher. It's shitty little things like that lowering the tone and making us all worse off.

Haven't played Risen, so I can't really say anything about that, but oh god those sex cards. My problem with the sex cards in Witcher however were less that they were demeaning and more that it actually brought the quality of its writing down (and Triss definitely didn't help. A case where the main female protagonist is less of a strong female character than she is one that merely screams that she's a strong female character). I don't see the point of putting such a completely unnecessary, weird and down-right shitty sidequests into a game that tries to tell a mature story. What the fuck was the point? Gotta fuck 'em all?

It went from political turmoil and grey moral choices to

Geralt: Hey, wanna do it?
Woman: Maybe.
Geralt: Here is a random item.
Woman: LET US ENGAGE IN INTERCOURSE!
*CONGRATULATIONS, YOU HAVE GAINED A USELESS SEX CARD! TIME TO CHOKE YOUR CHICKEN YEAH! BOOBIES!*

It only goes to extend the 'boys club' attitude of gaming.
It isn't necessary.

That I'm going to have to agree with although the road to solving this issues is to eliminate actual inequality. Would I want for such jokes to disappear (regardless of whom they're aimed at)? Sure, but that's more because I find them unfunny rather than genuinely insulting.

NOTE: Please excuse my English. I am not a native speaker and am less capable of wording my opinions correctly.

 

[neoontime]

I picked the beserker because I wasn't good at aiming in the first place. Seriously, ruining up to a guy and unleashing Bricks flurry of fist ensures that I land at least some hits on the bad guy.

 

[Twilight_guy]

Secondly, this is a stupid idea. Why? Because it would far easier to creat a difficulty setting option then to fuck around with one class and its skill trees. Why not make all your classes assessable to people who can't use the mechanics as well, why force them to play only one skill tree. There is a reason difficulty options exist, and this is the kind of thing you alter with that option.

If you ratchet down the overall difficulty there'll be no challenge for "Boyfriend" and he'll be bored. Less fun for both of them. Putting this in the character customization options is definitely the way to go.

It's the same principle as a lot of those Nintendo "asymmetric multiplayer" games, where one person plays the main character and has to be good at the game, and the second player can participate and be helpful but can't really become a liability. You get to play together but you don't have to play the same game. Borderlands presumably isn't going to allow quite that wide a skill gap, you won't be giving that second controller to a seven year old like you could with Mario Galaxy, but it's not all that different otherwise.

Fine, then introduce a 'Handicap' variable on each player. Each player's character can then have different systems in place based on how well the player can play the game. Once again, you have both players being able to help without having to force people to only be able to use one tree in one class and everyone being able to access all the game's content. The idea of a skill tree is dumb and half baked.