Borderlands 2 - Handsome Jack Best Villain Ever? No Spoilers

[tkioz]

Now hear me out before you start screaming! Handsome Jack is a fun character and Borderlands 2 is a fun game, but it's hardly high art and there are bigger name bad guys out there, but it's one of the first games (apart from Fable 2, now that I think about it) I've ever seen that shows something that even most other forms of entertainment constantly miss, books, movies, TV shows, you name, they all miss something this game, this wacky game nails spot on the head.

Handsome Jack is an evil bastard... he also thinks he's the hero of the story. It's very very rare in human history to find any "villain" that think he or she is actually evil, almost all of them think of themselves as the hero, the good guy, the guy needing to do what is done, yet in most media the "Bad Guy" is almost always comically moustache twirling evil... even if they have a "cause" they still seem aware that they are in the "bad guy" role... or at most they are the "good guy trapped by a horrible evil ideology", yet Jack honestly think he's the hero, it influences every interaction you have with him, and I think part of what makes him a very compelling character.

Now I've avoided spoilers for the most part, so please keep it that way.

What say you?

 

[Shadowstar38]

I'd have to say you're wrong on both accounts. Jack is evil and he knows it. So far in the game, he's taken a sick pleasure in killing who he wants to kill and rubbing it in your face. Dont get me wrong, it's entertaining as hell. But I dont get the impression he truly thinks he's on ths side of good.

I think there are far better examples in media Jet from the Last Airbender series.

Kang the Conqurer from the Avengers.

Magneto to some extent from X-men.

All these guys are far more sympathetic than Jack, who is just a straight up psycho.

Here's a whole page of them.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WellIntentionedExtremist

 

[hazabaza1]

He's a very good villain. He manages to fit right into that perfect line of 'hilariously aggressive' and 'massive ****.' He's also got some of the best dialogue in the game, and his whole objective is actually defined and justified pretty well. He gets even more fleshed out with the audio logs.
I just wish

Spoiler

We could have seen under the mask.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

A good villain? Yes.

The best villain? NO.

Don't get me wrong, he is an absolute prick and Gearbox really outdid themselves when they designed a bad guy that people would laugh at and hate at the same time.

But he isn't the best.

Spoiler: Spoilers for Spec Ops: The Line

Captain Martin Walker, the player character is the villain of the game, because you wanted to be the hero.

 

[Marter]

I liked him. He's probably not the best, but he's the best in recent memory for me. So, go him!

Well, not "like" in the sense that I wanted to befriend him, but I liked the writing and many of the lines were enjoyable.

 

[Kopikatsu]

He's a very good villain. He manages to fit right into that perfect line of 'hilariously aggressive' and 'massive ****.' He's also got some of the best dialogue in the game, and his whole objective is actually defined and justified pretty well. He gets even more fleshed out with the audio logs.
I just wish

Spoiler

We could have seen under the mask.

His mask comes off after the final battle.

Spoiler

He has the Vault symbol branded onto his face, like a Bandit

 

[hazabaza1]

He's a very good villain. He manages to fit right into that perfect line of 'hilariously aggressive' and 'massive ****.' He's also got some of the best dialogue in the game, and his whole objective is actually defined and justified pretty well. He gets even more fleshed out with the audio logs.
I just wish

Spoiler

We could have seen under the mask.

His mask comes off after the final battle.

Spoiler

He has the Vault symbol branded onto his face, like a Bandit

Spoiler

Huh, he landed face first for me when I killed him, I thought that it was scripted and it didn't let you see. Thanks!

 

[gigastar]

I feel Jack is certianly the best villan of this year. Though calling him the best ever is a stretch.

Also to call Jack an a sociopathic asshole is to insult antisocial anal sphincters the world over.

 

[CrazyCapnMorgan]

Jack is an awesome villian but don't get me wrong: there are better. I think of him as I did General Knoxx, with the exception that I sympathized with Knoxx somewhat and felt completely the opposite for Jack.

However you want to view him, I think he was a VERY well written villian - and that's a win for everyone, in the end.

 

[Playful Pony]

He IS a very good villain! Borderlands 2 has a good group of pretty strong characters in my mind, I've actually 'felt' something while playing this game and that's pretty rare for me! He's obviously a complete psycho.. I feel like this is a person that has much in common with a few crazed 'leaders' of the past, I can certainly think of a few. He's powerhungry, selfabsorbed and sees his cause as just and true. Anyone standing in his way are 'bandits' working against the common good, and should be wiped out. Manipulative, short tempered, extremely violent and cold concerning human life.

I'm not even near the end of the game yet, but I already despise him and hunger to get a stranglehold on the bastard. That alone is a great victory for Boderlands 2, and it's also interesting how I at times feel genuine pitty for some of the characters in the game. Even reminding myself that it's 'just a game' doesn't seem to remidy that much. I think that if a piece of entertainment makes me want to reach into the screen and hug on of the characters warmly, thats basically mission complete.

Well done Gearbox, game of the year as far as I am concerned!

 

[MHR]

Jack clearly states that he's the hero. He also all the time calls the people he doesn't like "bandits" which are bad guys.

It's really pretty simple.

But his dialogue is the best. He by himself is substance enough to drive the actions in Borderlands, whether it be to shut him up or to hear what he says next about you blowing up all his stuff.

I think this game has characterized quest NPCs better than any game to date. I pick up all Scooter's jobs because he's the funniest guy ever.

 

[Hydro14]

My interpretation of Handsome Jack is that he's a narcissistic fantasist with a sadistic streak that is provoked when the reality doesn't match up to his fantasy. His obsession with being 'the hero' stems more from his narcissism than any kind of heroic ideal - heroes are often the main character in the work in which they appear, meaning that in order to be the most important person he has to be the hero. When it becomes clear to him that the world can never match his fantasy, he chooses to destroy it instead. (on the player's arrival at the final level before the vault he says 'this world's gonna end,' stating his change in intent) I actually view him as quite a tragic character because he seems so incapable of grasping reality.

Spoilers from the Control Core battle:
[spoiler ] The main reason why Jack suffers a breakdown during the fight for Angel (not acted in my opinion) is because her decision to seek her own death forces him to face the reality of their relationship. In his fantasy Jack is a good father. Once the battle is over Jack immediately lapses back into another fantasy, in which his loving daughter has been killed by bandits as a means to get to him while the reality is of course very different. [/spoiler]

To summarise, what makes Jack an effective villain is that he's not a static character. It's really rare in fiction to see a villain get any kind of development arc of their own, even rarer to get one that does so without trying to portray them in any kind of sympathetic light. As to whether he's the best villain ever, not having sampled all the media in existence I wouldn't want to make such an outrageous call, but he definitely makes the shortlist. Richter Abend from 'Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of a New World' is still the best antagonist that I'm aware of in my opinion but he's not really a villain. Jack on the other hand, definitely a villain.

 

[IBlackKiteI]

Handsome Jack might likely be the best comedic villian ever, tied with Doctor Evil maybe, but best overall? Yeeeeah that's a bit of a stretch. Personally, my vote would go to Kurtz from Apocalypse Now.

In short, HJ (LOL!) is great because he's a total asshole but he can still somehow be quite loveable. He's just a great bad guy.

 

[Denamic]

He's a fantastic villain.
I can't think of any other villain I simultaneously both loathe and love as much.

 

[Andrew_C]

Ku

Handsome Jack might likely be the best comedic villian ever, tied with Doctor Evil maybe, but best overall? Yeeeeah that's a bit of a stretch. Personally, my vote would go to Kurtz from Apocalypse Now.

In short, HJ (LOL!) is great because he's a total asshole but he can still somehow be quite loveable. He's just a great bad guy.

Kurtz is sadistic and insane, but he isn't the villain in Apocalyse Now, he's the objective. Apocalyse Now has many antagonists, including Kurtz, but no villian. You can argue that that that's one of the points of the movie, Willard's actions are basically pointless and all the deaths unnecessary.

 

[IBlackKiteI]

Handsome Jack might likely be the best comedic villian ever, tied with Doctor Evil maybe, but best overall? Yeeeeah that's a bit of a stretch. Personally, my vote would go to Kurtz from Apocalypse Now.

In short, HJ (LOL!) is great because he's a total asshole but he can still somehow be quite loveable. He's just a great bad guy.

Kurtz is sadistic and insane, but he isn't the villain in Apocalyse Now, he's the objective. Apocalyse Now has many antagonists, including Kurtz, but no villian. That's one of the points of the movie, Willard's actions are basically pointless.

I meant villian as in regarding any character who acts as some sort of antagonist, though your right. Guess I should get my definitions sorted.

 

[MMSouthpawVIII]

His mask comes off after the final battle.

Spoiler

He has the Vault symbol branded onto his face, like a Bandit

Spoiler

Huh, he landed face first for me when I killed him, I thought that it was scripted and it didn't let you see. Thanks!

Spoiler

The same thing happened to me only he landed under a rakk with the tip of its wing covering Jack from the chin up. Talk about a tease

OT: He's my favorite villain in the last I don't even know how long.

 

[Bertylicious]

My interpretation of Handsome Jack is that he's a narcissistic fantasist with a sadistic streak that is provoked when the reality doesn't match up to his fantasy. His obsession with being 'the hero' stems more from his narcissism than any kind of heroic ideal - heroes are often the main character in the work in which they appear, meaning that in order to be the most important person he has to be the hero. When it becomes clear to him that the world can never match his fantasy, he chooses to destroy it instead. (on the player's arrival at the final level before the vault he says 'this world's gonna end,' stating his change in intent) I actually view him as quite a tragic character because he seems so incapable of grasping reality.

Spoilers from the Control Core battle:
[spoiler ] The main reason why Jack suffers a breakdown during the fight for Angel (not acted in my opinion) is because her decision to seek her own death forces him to face the reality of their relationship. In his fantasy Jack is a good father. Once the battle is over Jack immediately lapses back into another fantasy, in which his loving daughter has been killed by bandits as a means to get to him while the reality is of course very different. [/spoiler]

To summarise, what makes Jack an effective villain is that he's not a static character. It's really rare in fiction to see a villain get any kind of development arc of their own, even rarer to get one that does so without trying to portray them in any kind of sympathetic light. As to whether he's the best villain ever, not having sampled all the media in existence I wouldn't want to make such an outrageous call, but he definitely makes the shortlist. Richter Abend from 'Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of a New World' is still the best antagonist that I'm aware of in my opinion but he's not really a villain. Jack on the other hand, definitely a villain.

I found it surprising how subtly Jack is done, especially for a computer game and particularly a balls out lolfest like Borderlands. There's no hand holding or lampshading to highlight his delusions, he just has them and the writers leave it up to you to see the truth.

Jon Irenicus from Baldurs Gate 2 was always my favourite villian but I think that had more to do with David Warner's voice acting than anything else.