BP: why aren't they under heavier attack? why are we not doing anything?

[fundayz]

The more people who are aware of the hypocrisy the better.
I'm glad you brought that up actually, it had slipped my mind, I was focusing on the whole compensation aspect.

I am not american and do not defend any american corporations, and hold them just as accountable for any disasters they might have caused. However, that was not the focus of the post.

 

[fundayz]

If it was the people on the rig that caused the spillage, why are you calling for sacking the big wigs, then?

Because it was the big wigs on the oil rig that ORDERED THE OIL RIG OPPERATORS TO CONTINUE DRILLING AGAINST EXPERT ADVICE.

Its all bolded in the OP and even links provided....

oh and another reason is because these 'big wigs' have repeatedly made decisions that have lead to disasters. Leaving them in charge would be plain irresponsible.

 

[Cody211282]

Ok, but the safety inspector knew the history of that rig(safety problems longer then my arm), and still passed it. The coast guard knows the first thing to do is to burn the oil, but they didn't. The people who make the safety valve knew it didn't work, but they didn't do anything to warn or recall them. The people working on the rig knew they shouldn't be doing it yet did it anyway. Yet again your looking for one simple answer and one person that you can lynch to feel better about it, and the fact is that it's a lot more complicated, and a lot harder to understand then what you think it is.

First of all, the inspectors you are talking about were internal BP workers. This is why the MMS is under attack, as they were extremely lenient with oil corporations and allowed big corps to internally regulate themselves(Sound familiar at all?). The MMS is/was littered with corrupt workers and yes they are to blame as well. However, it was a BP controlled(owned by others, but controlled by them) rig and knew about the problems and could have halted drilling at any point and chose not to. This places the vast majority of guilt on them.

I love how you ignored everything that didn't help you.

 

[tomtom94]

The more people who are aware of the hypocrisy the better.
I'm glad you brought that up actually, it had slipped my mind, I was focusing on the whole compensation aspect.

I am not american and do not defend any american corporations, and hold them just as accountable for any disasters they might have caused. However, that was not the focus of the post.

No, as you've mentioned, the focus of the post was to make people aware of the "facts". I was merely making everyone aware of some other "facts".

 

[Necrofudge]

I would just listen to Russia for once and nuke the sea bottom to stop it,sure it would kill whats left of the ecosystem there but it would look so FABULOUS! when it goes off.

It actually worked before in an oil spill in the Arctic or something. I don't remember the exact location, but the problem was solved, more or less.

OT: This is actually the first time any disaster has ever made me worry. Not so much because of the horrible environmental damage (although that is a big problem) but because 2012 is drawing closer and this is just going to add to the stupid hype about the end of the world.
First the giant volcano eruption and now this.

 

[Negative]

Usually I lurk about the forums, but I'm going to throw my hat into the ring here.

People are whining at BP for not clearing the oil up and for generally buggering up the plan to cap the leak. Admitedly, the ways in which they went about capping the leak was about as effective as trying to kill a tiger with a pointy toothbrush, but you have to remember that it's not only BP who have a stake in the oil rig which blew up.

Three other oil companies also have a stake in the oil coming out, and all of them have pointed the finger at BP, almost going as to scapegoat them. and they've all declined to help compensate or clean up, because somehow it's no longer their problem.

Bp are focusing on clearing up the oil, but what with it taking up a huge amount of space, it is damn hard to clean that much up. And saying that $20bln isn't enough? Well they've lost a hell of alot with people boycotting and huge plummets in stocks, Bp has a shakey future ahead.

And going off on a different tangent here, if we're talking about BP getting off lightly, I'd refer you to the case in Bhopal in India, in which a plant owned by American company Union Carbide, had so many glaring saftey issues and ineviatbaly exploded, showering the surrounding city in all kinds of chemicals.

Now I'm going to do a little comparison here:
Compensation for the BP oil spill: $20 billion.
Compensation for those affected by the Bhopal explosion:$470 million.

Deaths caused by the BP oil spill: 11
Deaths caused by Bhopal explosion and fallout: est. 16,000

Presidential visits for BP oil spill: 4
Presidential visits for Bhopal: 0

And not to metion it's taken over 20 years for the owner of Union Carbide to revice any form of punishment, and so to adress OP's statement: you think BP got of lightly?

 

[TheRundownRabbit]

Im sick of people pointing fingers. We are so caught up in whose to blame that we havent done anything about the spill.

 

[Timbydude]

I mean, do you have any other ideas on what to do? The truth is, BP is currently putting the most money into the cleanup effort right now. I don't like the fact that they spilled it either, but we kind of have no choice but to accept their cleanup.

I really don't understand what the "anything" in your thread title refers to. Some people are boycotting BP, but past that, there's really nothing we can do. You never even proposed other "solutions"; you only stated that the government is only giving them a "slap on the wrist" (I don't think you fully understand how much money $20 billion is).

Why is the government not doing more? They don't really have to. After that $20 billion is paid off, I doubt that BP is going to find enough business to sustain itself, honestly. They aren't really on anyone's good side right now, and pretty much everyone I know refuses to buy gas from BP.

 

[s0denone]

Ok, but the safety inspector knew the history of that rig(safety problems longer then my arm), and still passed it. The coast guard knows the first thing to do is to burn the oil, but they didn't. The people who make the safety valve knew it didn't work, but they didn't do anything to warn or recall them. The people working on the rig knew they shouldn't be doing it yet did it anyway. Yet again your looking for one simple answer and one person that you can lynch to feel better about it, and the fact is that it's a lot more complicated, and a lot harder to understand then what you think it is.

I love how you ignored everything that didn't help you.

What didn't help him? I've bolded everything in your post that he's previously covered, or is covered by the OP.

You mean this? "Yet again you're looking for one simple answer, it's more complicated, yada, yada, yada", when in fact the "complicated" aspects are already completely accounted for.

Try again.

 

[Low Key]

For starters, they are an energy company. Energy companies have more say in what goes on in the world than most governments. If they decided to horde all of the oil for whatever reason, we'd be at their mercy. Acting rash and trying to strong arm them isn't wise.

Secondly, I for one would like to see them fix the problem before we start with the public beatings. They already know they fucked up and will have to pay billions in compensation, but anything more than that might hinder what little they are already trying to do to stop the spill.

Lastly, some of the blame lies on Obama for not allowing foreign ships to help with the clean up. All he needs to do is temporarily lift the Jones Act [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_Marine_Act_of_1920], then we'd have ships from all over the world specifically built to clean up oil spills coming in to not only reduce the amount of oil in the water, but also salvage some of the oil for use.

 

[Chrinik]

and having BP shut down is a big achievement for a media outlet. 50 points for an international business. the only bigger ones are 100, for taking down a government (the internet in general might get that one first for china) and 150, causing the downfall of humanity (sky news is aaaall over it). so they have a vested interest in taking down any major company
then again, you may be right, but i dont think that they would push for more. they dont need to
if supply doesnt meet demand, they can just up prices. theres very little alternative for purchases, bar going to other suppliers, who would also up prices
but like i said, you might be right

Well we all know that upping the oilprice is about as usefull as a measure then anything because Oilcompanys sell their Oil for fucking nothing!
The Government makes most of the money from Gasoline and takes up more then half the price it should have through taxes alone. That´s the reason why the oil price is fluctuating so much and steadily on the rise...
Or at least that´s what it is over here. Thats why Gas in Dubai is so fucking cheap, they don´t put much tax on it.
When the Oilpriced turned up to 150$ per Barrel the world turned upside down and the gasprice rose to the skys, but when it sunk back down to 50$ a barrel, the prices got stuck at their current height, everybody complained, noone can do anything against it.

Well if supply doesn´t feed demand, upping the price is wrong.
You produce more or accuire more, because the moment you up the price, people aren´t going to buy your product anymore...
So you try to stay cheaper then your corporate enemys by getting more of what you sell, fast.
So it makes sense that BP tried to push the oil drilling forward to get their hands on more oil to sell so they don´t HAVE to raise the prices.
Fucking much it would do them, they already make enough with Oil to get out NOW and relax on a personal Island that they had created in the shape of their company logo...

 

[fundayz]

A very long and informative post there, I'm going to bite off a few small chunks to respond too.

1: BP is receiving a slap on the wrist because US law said so. There were regulations in place (likely changed as a result of this spill) that set how the relevant companies were punished. The law cannot and should not be changed now. It is the governments fault if the regulations put in place were inadequate, and they need to deal with it. To go back and alter the relevant regulations to further screw over BP would be... well it would certainly make me look on the US political system with despair.

2: BP didn't intend to dump millions of gallons of oil into the sea, I think you may be citing regulations relating to intentional dumping (no laughing, kids!).

3: Because who else is going to do it? Stopping the leak, due to it's location/scale etc., is an enormous engineering challenge that has not been faced in recent years, if at all. Yes BPs response is producing inadequate results, but can you suggest a party that can do better?

Feel free to tear apart as you wish, just few observations.

Thanks for you input. it looks like you actually put some thought into it, unlike many on the first page....

I am not an expert on US law or policy, and if there is guidelines on how companies are to be punished(or not punished) then there is not much to be done in that aspect. And while the spill is not intentional per se, there were strong hints that the well was going to blow yet BP decided to take the risk instead of stopping the drilling, fixing the problem, then continued. If the well had exploded as they were taking proper preventative measures then I wouldn't put such harsh blame on them.

And yes I believe BP is one of the few organizations of stopping the leak. However, i think they should step back and give control of their resources over to a group made up of independent experts and delegates from various nations.

 

[Cody211282]

Ok, but the safety inspector knew the history of that rig(safety problems longer then my arm), and still passed it. The coast guard knows the first thing to do is to burn the oil, but they didn't. The people who make the safety valve knew it didn't work, but they didn't do anything to warn or recall them. The people working on the rig knew they shouldn't be doing it yet did it anyway. Yet again your looking for one simple answer and one person that you can lynch to feel better about it, and the fact is that it's a lot more complicated, and a lot harder to understand then what you think it is.

I love how you ignored everything that didn't help you.

What didn't help him? I've bolded everything in your post that he's previously covered, or is covered by the OP.

You mean this? "Yet again you're looking for one simple answer, it's more complicated, yada, yada, yada", when in fact the "complicated" aspects are already completely accounted for.

Try again.

Ok how about this, that inspector isn't a BP big wig, it's his responsibility to actually do his damn job, thus it being his fault, the people on the rig are also responsible for their own damn actions, they aren't robot, they share in the blame. I also like how you highlighted the Coast Guard and safety valve thing when he didn't say anything about it. And how has he once said anything but "Blah BP must pay it's all their fault".

 

[fundayz]

No, as you've mentioned, the focus of the post was to make people aware of the "facts". I was merely making everyone aware of some other "facts".

Oh sorry, i thought you were calling me a hypocrite.

Im sick of people pointing fingers. We are so caught up in whose to blame that we havent done anything about the spill.

I did not make a thread on how to fix the problem because I don't know how to fix it or have information that's truly relevant on that issue. I only talk of what I can confidently back up and do not like talking out my ass.

And not to metion it's taken over 20 years for the owner of Union Carbide to revice any form of punishment, and so to adress OP's statement: you think BP got of lightly?

Yes I do. The fact that others have also gotten of lightly only emphasizes the fact that we can't let BP get off relatively lightly lest this happen again.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

I'm disgusted by it too but I'm in no position to make them change their ways. Lend me the Green Lantern's ring and I'll fly to BP headquarters. They'd be making some serious changes then.

 

[Vuzzmop]

At least something is being done to punish those responsible: BP employees are banned from the local pub in Takapuna.

Everything else so far has been nothing but an expensive wrist-slapping, and to be honest, I doubt that only one group is responsible for such an astounding series of cock ups.

honestly? I think too much time is being spent trying to shift blame by BP, and too much time by the various media spent attempting to find blame in one particular entity. Finding out who is responsible doesn't fix the leak. We can hold the tribunal and subsequent lynching once the problem is solved.

 

[Varun Garuda Maharaj]

I think this is who you should send

 

[fundayz]

Ok how about this, that inspector isn't a BP big wig, it's his responsibility to actually do his damn job, thus it being his fault, the people on the rig are also responsible for their own damn actions, they aren't robot, they share in the blame. I also like how you highlighted the Coast Guard and safety valve thing when he didn't say anything about it. And how has he once said anything but "Blah BP must pay it's all their fault".

First of all, did you even read the full opener post? Or any of the links I posted?
This thread is about BP's responsibility not how to fix the spill, so of course I'm going to talk about how and why BP should pay for their actions.

Sorry if i missed a few things, I did not mean to ignore them.
The inspector responsible is a BP worker and therefore the company has liability for his actions at work. If you go to a restaurant, and a chef undercooks your meal leading to disease you hold both the chef and the restaurant owner/manager responsible.

And of course the workers at the rig act own their own, but you completely forget about the fact that BP is their boss and as far as a now multinational and multibillion corporations are not a boss you can really say 'no' to. You can't ignore the intimidation factor.

About the coast guard, how do you want them to burn millions upon millions of barrel of oil? And their lackluster actions? that is a different issue, specifically the government's poor response. However, their actions were only necessary due to the problem that BP caused. It's like bringing up paramedic incompetence at a trial for murder. In the end, it was the person's actions that lead to the death.

 

[AfterAscon]

As the OP highlights, I find it funny that, despite BP being a truely global company, all the recent and major failures have happened in the US. Makes you wonder...

 

[fundayz]

I think this is who you should send

And I would. however, I am not an American resident or citizen so i doubt i would even get a response.