BREAKING: Women of #GamerGate Make Breakthrough on HuffPo Live

[Ushiromiya Battler]

You could say I'm reading behind the lines.
''*Head desk* You know, I never got the abundance of sexy girls in fiction. I mean...why? Why? It usually just completely smashes whatever atmosphere you were going towards. Like this! Can we just back away from sex for five seconds!?''
Implies it should not be in the game.

''The jiggle physics? Oh, come on! At least not in a serious game. ''
Another implication it should not be allowed.

In all fairness I may have overreacted a bit.

I wouldn't consider those to be saying that designers shouldn't be allowed to include it; I'd consider them both within the realm of criticism.

No worries, I don't mean to go all knee-jerk.

I guess I just overreacted, but this is why I generally have problem with criticism. It's a small thread between criticism and denying somethings right to exist.
I guess it would be easier if people were a bit clearer when they convey their criticism.

Oddly enough I generally have no problem with it if I myself are criticized.
Anyways no problem, I generally don't mind knee jerk reactions.

 

[Thorn14]

To the people I was discussing with, sorry I stopped, RL stuff, and I'm glad we had a relatively civil discussion, I know I'm not very good at it but its been a fun talk to discuss the nature of reviews without it turning nasty.

Thanks.

 

[redlemon]

Here's a question:

If you thought gaming journalists were corrupt, what's stopping you from not reading the things they write?

Their lies have a negative effect on society. Why do we have laws against slander and libel?
The only problem is, gamers can't sue these people anymore than Muslims can sue anyone if they publish "Muslims are mostly made up of angry terrorists who hate freedom!"

Could you give an example?

Also to add, what you said doesn't actually answer the question.

Plenty of people are now spewing hate towards gamers. Not just Gamergate, but gamers in general. There was already a CEO who threatened to fire anyone just for being a gamer, regardless of whether or not they have anything to do with Gamergate. People have been doxxed and fired over their lies. Someone who makes a living off of Amazon is currently having their funds withheld.

What if the entire media started printing articles about how Muslims were intolerant terrorists while trying to silence anyone who disagrees by smearing them as a hate group? What if people believed it? What if the media started smearing sports fans as angry men who cause riots in stadiums, and smeared anyone who disagreed as a violent manchild?

So to answer your question, what's stopping me from simply not reading the things they write is my desire to avoid having our society turn to shit over some lies that promote hatred towards a specific group of people.

 

[WindKnight]

We might disagree on this, but I feel the journalistic standards of today's game journalism is closer than ever to these 'hack' news sites you mentioned.

Just a minor correction, but these are Newspapers, not sites. These tabloids have been around since before the internet was a thing.

Funny thing is, the Daily Mail specifically has been around since before the 2nd world war, was pro Hitler before the war, denied the holocaust untill there was incontrovertible proof and is as right wing as they come, blaming immigration for everything, and being oh so subtly homophobic and reactionary as possible.

Which made the fact GamerGaters labelled it as an 'SJW mouthpeice' after their Briana Wu coverage something that just made me burst out laughing.

 

[Mikeybb]

Is there any way we can fold this discussion into the larger thread?

You can request a merger here: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/chat/Moderation-Team

Honestly, they'll probably merge or lock it anyway if the thread goes on much longer.

I'd feel a bit uncomfortable doing that underneath people talking, or the original poster.

I'm just trying to be conscious of the other users on the forum.

Some were expressing concern that there was a bit too much overspill with gamergate topics that could fit happily inside the main thread.

Trying to be a good nieghbour by suggesting it.

 

[Thorn14]

Is there any way we can fold this discussion into the larger thread?

You can request a merger here: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/chat/Moderation-Team

Honestly, they'll probably merge or lock it anyway if the thread goes on much longer.

I'd feel a bit uncomfortable doing that underneath people talking, or the original poster.

I'm just trying to be conscious of the other users on the forum.

Some were expressing concern that there was a bit too much overspill with gamergate topics that could fit happily inside the main thread.

Trying to be a good nieghbour by suggesting it.

We could always make a "bias and opinions in reviews" thread on the Gamer Board. This has been a pretty interesting discussion. Both sides making good points.

 

[shrekfan246]

What, exactly, happened to the devs of Divinity? Last I checked their game was well reviewed and sold extremely well, and the developers seem happy as pigs in shit.

The promotional box-cover art was changed so that the lady character didn't have "boob window" anymore.

Let's ignore the fact that "boob window" was still very present within the actual game.

 

[Ushiromiya Battler]

It happened to the devs of Divinity Original Sin and it can happen to others.

What, exactly, happened to the devs of Divinity? Last I checked their game was well reviewed and sold extremely well, and the developers seem happy as pigs in shit.

It is paradoxical actually as I have no problems with changes that haven't been forced.

Define "forced". People argued that Bioware was "forced" to change the ending of ME3. Do you agree that this is the case?

EDIT: It appears you guys have talked all this to death up above, I replied before reading the parts of the thread I missed.

I'll snip out the parts that have already been mentioned through other quotes.
If you want me to elaborate on it just mention it and I'll do my best.

1. In relation to the cover changes, the person in question posted a blog if I remember correctly going about how they were forced to change it as someone saw it as sexist. I'll come back to you on this when I manage to find the blog post again. EDIT: Found the post: http://orogion.deviantart.com/journal/Save-the-Boob-plate-380891149
I don't agree with everything he says, but the fact that the change happened because of death threats and harassment I see as a problem.

2. Yes I would argue it was forced, but the whole thing is a bit difficult, seeing as they 'lied' about the endings.
To be honest I feel they shouldn't have caved into the demands.

 

[Thorn14]

What, exactly, happened to the devs of Divinity? Last I checked their game was well reviewed and sold extremely well, and the developers seem happy as pigs in shit.

The promotional box-cover art was changed so that the lady character didn't have "boob window" anymore.

Let's ignore the fact that "boob window" was still very present within the actual game.

It was midriff, not boob window. Boob window is "covered except for a hole around the cleavage."

 

[redlemon]

What has this got to do with corruption and ethics in gaming journalism? Could you please link the two.

You asked me why I didn't just ignore the corruption and ethics in gaming journalism. I answered. Please quit trying to blame this on me when you're the one brought this up.

Literally nothing to do with ethics in gaming journalism.

They're lies. Last I checked, lying is unethical. It's an example of something related to journalism outside of gaming so you can draw parallels to it. Please quit deflecting.

How is you reading what they write stopping society from doing that? I don't see the connection. If you don't read it, then society will turn to shit? How?

Please quit distorting my words. It's incredibly intellectually dishonest.

 

[shrekfan246]

What, exactly, happened to the devs of Divinity? Last I checked their game was well reviewed and sold extremely well, and the developers seem happy as pigs in shit.

The promotional box-cover art was changed so that the lady character didn't have "boob window" anymore.

Let's ignore the fact that "boob window" was still very present within the actual game.

It was midriff, not boob window. Boob window is "covered except for a hole around the cleavage."

Eh, it was a combination of both, actually.

But fair enough. I forgot about the midriff portion.

 

[Fappy]

2. Yes I would argue it was forced, but the whole thing is a bit difficult, seeing as they 'lied' about the endings.

What lies?

Oh please God don't turn this into a Mass Effect 3 ending debate.

Don't make me get out my "Abandon Thread" gifs!

 

[Thorn14]

2. Yes I would argue it was forced, but the whole thing is a bit difficult, seeing as they 'lied' about the endings.

What lies?

Oh please God don't turn this into a Mass Effect 3 ending debate.

Don't make me get out my "Abandon Thread" gifs!

Sorry, I initially brought it up. I was just making the point that the Mass Effect 3 fiasco was the first clear sign of disconnect between journalists and gamers.

Erik Kain did a lot of good articles on it.

 

[Nirallus]

If you thought gaming journalists were corrupt, what's stopping you from not reading the things they write?

It's simply this - If the gaming press belongs to one clique, subscribes to one ideology, and speaks with one voice, they become the gatekeepers. If Bayonetta 3 comes out a few years down the road and they don't like it because they think it's sexist (or in general, "Game X is Y-ist because Z"), they'll release a barrage of articles saying "It's a terrible game, don't buy it" and they'll tank its metacritic score. Part of what fuels GamerGate is that we recoil at the censorious instinct that crowd* has always harbored. The nightmare scenario is a Comics Code Authority for video games. This time the line taken by moral busybodies isn't "comic books are corrupting our youth", it's "video games are rife with misogyny". We had a taste of it on August 28th with the Time On Target barrage of articles.

*Let's not call them "Social Justice Warriors" because justice is not part of their methods or goals.

Edit: Quoted more than I meant to.

 

[Ushiromiya Battler]

2. Yes I would argue it was forced, but the whole thing is a bit difficult, seeing as they 'lied' about the endings.

What lies?

Oh please God don't turn this into a Mass Effect 3 ending debate.

Don't make me get out my "Abandon Thread" gifs!

Opps, accidentally quoted you.

2. Yes I would argue it was forced, but the whole thing is a bit difficult, seeing as they 'lied' about the endings.

What lies?

It doesn't matter, send me a pm if you want to discuss it, I'd rather not derail the thread.

 

[Fappy]

2. Yes I would argue it was forced, but the whole thing is a bit difficult, seeing as they 'lied' about the endings.

What lies?

Oh please God don't turn this into a Mass Effect 3 ending debate.

Don't make me get out my "Abandon Thread" gifs!

Sorry, I initially brought it up. I was just making the point that the Mass Effect 3 fiasco was the first clear sign of disconnect between journalists and gamers.

Erik Kain did a lot of good articles on it.

I wouldn't say it was the first clear sign, but it definitely highlighted the problem.

 

[psijac]

Do you want a reviewer gave Every Call of Duty a 1 out of five because it doesn't reflect the true nature of the ground war in Afghanistan.

Personally? No, but someone might.

Hey look at that, my personal tastes don't set the benchmark for an entire industry designed to appeal to a vast cross section of people, imagine that. It's almost like I might have to undertake a cursory effort to find reviews I DO want, instead of demanding the entire industry change to only deliver reviews I want to read.

You do realize what you are arguing for is capitalism? Where anyone can put out anything because someone might buy into their bullshit. Would a game with graphic depictions of sexual assault be okay because someone might want that?