Breast Sizes and Complaints

[EternallyBored]

Especially when people start to judge reality based on media. This site's had quite a few complaints about women not meeting the standards of anime/game girls. Unsurprising, given the proportions anime/game girls can have. No just in breasts, either.

To be fair, like 75% of these topics are created by the same guy, Paragon Fury is pretty much exactly who I expect the topic creator to be whenever I see any topic talking about: anime women, anime breasts, comparing anime women to real women, fanservice games, fanservice, and most topics in Off topic dealing with monster girls. Pretty much any topic that amounts to comparing real women to anime women, you got a better than 50/50 chance that Paragon Fury is behind it.


Not that that's a bad thing, while his topics tend to follow a theme, at least he's creating topics that get more than a page of replies before dying, so he's creating conversation at least. It's just a thread of conversation that is mostly being perpetuated by a single poster, with a small handful of other posters filling in the difference.

 

[Something Amyss]

To be fair, like 75% of these topics are created by the same guy, Paragon Fury is pretty much exactly who I expect the topic creator to be whenever I see any topic talking about: anime women, anime breasts, comparing anime women to real women, fanservice games, fanservice, and most topics in Off topic dealing with monster girls. Pretty much any topic that amounts to comparing real women to anime women, you got a better than 50/50 chance that Paragon Fury is behind it.

Oh, I'm quite familiar with him. But I don't think he makes up quite the number of threads within this larger issue as that. Yes, he's made a bunch of threads about breasts, anime, etc., but the way women are looked at on this board? It doesn't start or end with him, or even come close.

 

[infohippie]

I think the only real complaint I have with video game breasts is that MMOs rarely provide enough options when creating your character. The offered options are usually between "large" and "comedy oversize". If you want to make them smaller than that you're generally out of luck. And if you want to make a petite character that's almost flat chested, you've got no chance.

 

[JimB]

I know people are gonna mock me for this; but to me, these are still completely averaged sized breasts.

In America, given our obesity problem, yes, I don't doubt huge breasts are an average thing. Breasts that huge on the kinds of frames you present being somehow average, though, is a prospect I am considerably more leery of.

It seems that, especially lately, if you express any interest in women who couldn't be mistaken for a boy or have above a B-cup, you're some kind of fetishistic monster (despite the fact that the average cup size in the US is a C).

I will not answer for a position I have never taken and have never seen. I will only say that when gigantic tits are being offered to me as a selling point on a product I am to want to purchase, I get pissy, because I feel like I am being treated like the sixth graders who will only protect the boys from Trent Boyett if they get a picture of Stan's mom's beeewbs. If you're fine with that, then whatever; you do you. I don't have the time or the interest to stand on your shoulder like Jiminy Cricket.

 

[Something Amyss]

I will not answer for a position I have never taken and have never seen. I will only say that when gigantic tits are being offered to me as a selling point on a product I am to want to purchase, I get pissy, because I feel like I am being treated like the sixth graders who will only protect the boys from Trent Boyett if they get a picture of Stan's mom's beeewbs. If you're fine with that, then whatever; you do you. I don't have the time or the interest to stand on your shoulder like Jiminy Cricket.

I find it telling that the alternative to tits larger than your head is "looking like a boy," TBH. I missed that previously.

 

[JimB]

I find it telling that the alternative to tits larger than your head is "looking like a boy," TBH. I missed that previously.

Yeah, but I couldn't think of a way to point that out without feeding into the "you're persecuting me for liking big breasts, which are totally the average" thing. I mean, do you know how much it hurt the sarcastic asshole in me to not make Oedipus jokes about comparing women to his mom? But when the argument is framed in terms of how much internet people are meanies for psychoanalyzing his sexual tastes, it seems a tad self-defeating to psychoanalyze his sexual tastes.

 

[Something Amyss]

Yeah, but I couldn't think of a way to point that out without feeding into the "you're persecuting me for liking big breasts, which are totally the average" thing. I mean, do you know how much it hurt the sarcastic asshole in me to not make Oedipus jokes about comparing women to his mom? But when the argument is framed in terms of how much internet people are meanies for psychoanalyzing his sexual tastes, it seems a tad self-defeating to psychoanalyze his sexual tastes.

You say self-defeating like it's a bad thing!

Wait.

So are you saying you don't want to be infantalised?

 

[Don Incognito]

You say self-defeating like it's a bad thing!

Wait.

So are you saying you don't want to be infantalised?

Previous misadventures on certain internet websites suggest that some people are into that sort of thing.

 

[visiblenoise]

People (just women, maybe??) put too much stock into what guys say on this topic. If asked, of course the average male is going to say that they prefer a generous handful if they're not worried about being tactful (which is always the case on the internet). But more often than not, if nobody asks, it isn't that big of a deal.

 

[Something Amyss]

Previous misadventures on certain internet websites suggest that some people are into that sort of thing.

Misadventures? Are you sure they were misadventures?

People (just women, maybe??) put too much stock into what guys say on this topic. If asked, of course the average male is going to say that they prefer a generous handful if they're not worried about being tactful (which is always the case on the internet). But more often than not, if nobody asks, it isn't that big of a deal.

Weirdly enough, it always seems like it's guys making a big fuss out of this.

 

[Paragon Fury]

So a lot of replies betwee here and my OP, but I'll just hit on a couple of things;

1: "But your topics are so same-y".

Well, people seem to enjoy discussing them and they're one of the few topics that get multiple pages around here. We also remember what happened the last couple of times we tried some more serious topics -

Spoiler

Also, I guess people missed my Ghost in the Shell game and Smash Bros. topics. /cry

2: "Something something blah Oedipus Complex"

Woah there. I didn't say I LIKED my mom that way; it was just weird as hell knowing I had the "hot" mom and I knew it too, especially since I went to all boys school and my mother frequently did the chaperoning for the trips.

But yes, I'm now in no denial that the women that I grew up around were the exception rather than the rule; but lets see how you deal with growing up around something for 18 years and it being in all the media ever and it never being "wrong" (since unlike other things you could mention there isn't anything wrong with big boobs) so there was nothing negative associated with it.

I'm not sure if I was "tricked" or not, but I don't think so considering that I'm fairly certain my family wasn't nearly wealthy enough to be having any of that done.

3: "Wahwah neckbearing"

Look, alright. Have you been on the Internet or around college campuses in a liberal area as of late? Particularly colleges? Basically anything that has to do with a woman's appearance in any way is liable to turn into a shitstorm the like of which you'd expect to find on the Planet of the Apes.

Obviously its by no measure oppression, but commenting on an article about a woman especially in support of the standardized ideal of beauty is a good way to to fill your Facebook notifications with a torrent of shit.

4: Honestly, the "C" number is probably outdated, since it was from back when I was in college - but I don't suspect women in the US LOST a cup size either.

 

[Lilani]

I'm not sure if I was "tricked" or not, but I don't think so considering that I'm fairly certain my family wasn't nearly wealthy enough to be having any of that done.

Even cheap bras give illusions of a larger size, just given the nature of what they are. And they certainly change a lot about the shape, again taking away the natural sagging that unsupported breasts succumb to.

4: Honestly, the "C" number is probably outdated, since it was from back when I was in college - but I don't suspect women in the US LOST a cup size either.

True, but again this can mostly be attributed to the rise of obesity. I think you'd be hard pressed to prove the natural median cup size for non-obese women has gone up. I'm afraid the illusion of larger breasts in average women is just that--an illusion. Basically all bras made are created to push things up and create an illusion of larger size. Throw clothes on top of that and you've got a very generous increase in apparent boob size.

The very fact that we're having this discussion is rather strong evidence of why some people make such a big fuss over the standards set by the media. I'm on the other side of this apparently one-way glass, and I can promise you from this side that boobs don't work that way. They sag, they droop, they aren't always the same size, and they're always smaller than they appear. Some look downright pointy as opposed to round.

Please note that being inexperienced about what boobs are really like is no transgression of any kind. That isn't the problem here. The problem is that you're trying to wrap reality based around your expectations, and your expectations have come from fiction. You know nothing about the size of a woman's boobs unless you see them naked and unsupported. And unless they've had some work done, when they are naked and unsupported they are not going to look like perfectly round spheres glued to the torso. That's all we want to convey to you, man. Enjoy DOA and anime all you like, but don't carry those expectations anywhere near reality.

 

[JimB]

So are you saying you don't want to be infantalised?

That would be nice.

I'd also like it if people would consider the cost women have to pay being constantly barraged with expectations to conform to one narrow, extremely difficult to meet expectation of physical beauty, but of course we mustn't discuss that because it will summon entire crusades of people screaming about how games don't cause sexism (which isn't what I said is happening, but never mind), and I just don't have it in me to deal with that bullshit right now.

Whoa there. I didn't say I liked my mom that way; it was just weird as hell knowing I had the "hot" mom and I knew it too, especially since I went to [an] all-boys school and my mother frequently did the chaperoning for the trips.

Dude, you start off by talking about how much you love big titties, then tell us how big your mom's titties are. Frankly, I think medals are due to the people who had the self-restraint to not make a wetnursing joke.

Have you been on the Internet or around college campuses in a liberal area as of late? Particularly colleges? Basically anything that has to do with a woman's appearance in any way is liable to turn into a shitstorm the like of which you'd expect to find on the Planet of the Apes.

Unless your argument is that you have a right to comment on a woman's appearance without anyone else responding, I don't know what this has to do with anything.

 

[Something Amyss]

3: "Wahwah neckbearing"

Look, alright. Have you been on the Internet or around college campuses in a liberal area as of late? Particularly colleges? Basically anything that has to do with a woman's appearance in any way is liable to turn into a shitstorm the like of which you'd expect to find on the Planet of the Apes.

Weirdly enough, I don't get this when I talk about women. My friends don't either.

Here, I'll level as to why I suspect you might get a different response. You not only obsess over anime boobs, you talk about women in hostile, derogatory terms. You have also spoken in terms that make me think you are literally afraid to deal with real women.

Now, what I would suggest is self-reflection. Why might your actions cause a shitstorm and mine not? The major hint is that it's not that it's impossible to talk about women and women's appearance without causing such a response.

If you routinely talk about and regard women as you do on here elsewhere, I wouldn't be surprised that you get a negative reaction.

I'd also like it if people would consider the cost women have to pay being constantly barraged with expectations to conform to one narrow, extremely difficult to meet expectation of physical beauty, but of course we mustn't discuss that because it will summon entire crusades of people screaming about how games don't cause sexism (which isn't what I said is happening, but never mind), and I just don't have it in me to deal with that bullshit right now.

Reflection on how early it starts would also be good.

Unless your argument is that you have a right to comment on a woman's appearance without anyone else responding, I don't know what this has to do with anything.

You'd be surprised how often this is the case.

Well, maybe you wouldn't, but still.

 

[Dizchu]

Look, alright. Have you been on the Internet or around college campuses in a liberal area as of late? Particularly colleges? Basically anything that has to do with a woman's appearance in any way is liable to turn into a shitstorm the like of which you'd expect to find on the Planet of the Apes.

"Hey she's really pretty and has a great body shape" = Okay

"Wow look at those stunning knockers I want to motorboat them" = Please no

I don't know ANY woman that'd respond negatively to "you look nice" unless the compliment is delivered in a creepy, intrusive way. However a lot of people seem to think "your makeup looks great today" or "you have a beautiful smile" is the same as saying "your tits are fantastic".

The way you talk about women doesn't make it sound like you appreciate the female form, it makes it sound like you obsess over exaggerations of it. Look I like anime tiddies too when I'm in the mood for it, but I always make sure to separate that from the real world, because it isn't representative of the real world. At all.

 

[JimB]

I don't know any woman who'd respond negatively to "you look nice" unless the compliment is delivered in a creepy, intrusive way.

I do. They don't want to be judged for their appearance, even if that judgment is positive; they want to be judged for the things they can do, particularly since almost no one ever casually compliments a man based on his appearance (the closest I generally see is "Hey Doug, nice tie" or something). And that's fair. They are allowed to have that preference, and they deserve to have it respected. That you or I or the OP might have intended the comments in a complimentary fashion does not change how the comments were actually received, and (not that I'm accusing you of this, Dizchu, rather than discussing a general trend which I think the original post exemplifies) if you're going to start complaining about how unfair it is for others to not accept the way you feel about titties, then it would be extremely self-centered and hypocritical to complain about how women feel about your feelings regarding their titties.

 

[FillerDmon]

This has been an interesting thread. Popcorn and all, guys.

That said, my biggest problem with Team Ninja specifically is when they advertise Boobs where Boobs don't matter (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbcMI0FjlBg). Anyone who actually buys in after a commercial like that is someone I don't want to know. Big Jiggle Tits in a Soft-Core Volleyball Simulator (or anything raunchier), while not 100% mature, is their business. I can just choose not to buy what I'm not interested in, and support what I am (and in the past, I actually have shelled out for DOAX games). But that should not be the selling point of a game in which you can do this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JHvyWA3WJA). If the female characters all have Jiggle Tits while demon slaying, I'm honestly still okay with that so long as focus is where it should be; the slaying.

I only note this because this thread seems to have been spawned in the wake of the conversations sparked by DOAX3, made by Team Ninja and Tecmo, and the above paragraph is why I've stopped supporting them for fundamental reasons.

More on the thread itself, I've never been bothered by boob sizes. I've seen girls with body types that -should- have huge sagging boobs be almost entirely flat as a board. I've seen girls with rail-thin figures have boobs disproportunate to her size (and her age; dear god this was chaperoning a high-school church function! A pool party, mind you, but still!), and just about every single combination allowed. Admittedly most of the time they don't always freely defy gravity and physics in staying both perfectly perky and round, but at the same time that's both more time analyzing boobs in a video game than I think is entirely necessary (so long as the game is one in which sex appeal pushed into your face is the main point), and a bit silly considering all of the other crap that gets pushed in gaming.

Sincerely, you know what I'd like? I'd like to see a game in which we do basically everything in the DOAX series, but with a bunch of hot, skinny yet muscular beef-cakes with abs you can cut meat off. Would be fun for a change to enjoy/exploit the male body for fun, rather than just the female.

That said, the world itself needs a new perspective. I think Yahtzee said it best in his secondary review for Bayonetta 2: In an ideal world, Bayonetta would stride into the room, legs akimbo, and start doing suggestive things with a gun barrel, but everyone would just roll their eyes at her and resume the orgy.

 

[Dizchu]

I do. They don't want to be judged for their appearance, even if that judgment is positive; they want to be judged for the things they can do, particularly since almost no one ever casually compliments a man based on his appearance (the closest I generally see is "Hey Doug, nice tie" or something).

Really? People react negatively to "you look nice today" or "your makeup looks sharp today"? I mean sure, those people may exist but you'd have to go out of your way to find them. The point I was making is that there's a difference between those sorts of compliments and the sort of fetishistic leering illustrated by the OP.

I know I don't represent every person but if someone told me that my face looked nice or that my makeup or hair was looking good that day, I'd have a far different response than if someone was checking out my ass. I mean I have a great ass, but I'd rather not have strangers stare and make awkward comments about it.

if you're going to start complaining about how unfair it is for others to not accept the way you feel about titties, then it would be extremely self-centered and hypocritical to complain about how women feel about your feelings regarding their titties.

I'm not sure what you're objecting to here. I was merely saying that women tend to respond more positively to one sort of comment than another, and ParagonFury's assertion that "you can't even say women look nice anymore!" suggests an extremely reductionist view of how people operate.

 

[Lilani]

I do. They don't want to be judged for their appearance, even if that judgment is positive; they want to be judged for the things they can do, particularly since almost no one ever casually compliments a man based on his appearance (the closest I generally see is "Hey Doug, nice tie" or something).

Really? People react negatively to "you look nice today" or "your makeup looks sharp today"? I mean sure, those people may exist but you'd have to go out of your way to find them. The point I was making is that there's a difference between those sorts of compliments and the sort of fetishistic leering illustrated by the OP.

I know I don't represent every person but if someone told me that my face looked nice or that my makeup or hair was looking good that day, I'd have a far different response than if someone was checking out my ass. I mean I have a great ass, but I'd rather not have strangers stare and make awkward comments about it.

I can vouch for quite a bit of truth in what JimB said. Too often in my life, things like "you look nice today" are used as code for "nice tits/ass," or are at least used as a lead-in to get to such comments. It's a question asked to test the waters to see if I'm open to more "intimate" compliments, and possibly a proposition of some sort (giving him my number, going out with him, etc). None of this is stuff I want to deal with when all I've done is exist in public, and it really grates on me that too often the guy knows nothing about me beyond the fact that he likes the way I look. I'm sure there are plenty of women who are fine with such unsolicited comments, but I've had this conversation with many friends of mine, and the reaction is pretty much universally against such comments.

Unless you've established some common ground on conversation or interests that don't have to do with physical appearance, such comments are usually unwanted and also considered creepy. Your intentions and your presentation may not be along those lines, but to women it is an all too common strategy for getting in our pants.