Brink : No Girls Allowed

[Trolldor]

The goal is not to become a society where the default is female, the goal is to not have a default.

You said this more clearly than I could have. Thank you.

Long story short? This game is missing a major, and very basic, aspect of one of its selling points.

No it's not. It's not missing a single thing and until you can establish otherwise all I see is some fairly lulzy crying at a percieved prejudicial attack.

 

[Reveras]

Well, I'll handle this. I think what Garfunkel up here is trying to say is that you should all take a second, think seriously about what is really bothering you and then have a big, group unbunching of your panties.

 

[loodmoney]

It's utterly sexist to assume that every game needs female characters.

So we should just let this one slide? And the next? And the one after that? Hell no. It is not sexist to ask why a game doesn't have female characters.

It is incredibly sexist to assume that the only reason they didn't include female characters is because they chortled at the idea of a woman outside the kitchen.

Who is assuming that? Sexism isn't just explicit misogyny any more that racism is just lynchings. It is a manifestation of sexism when male = default.

It is utterly sexist to claim that the only reason they didn't use female characters was due to some sort of prejudice.

No, they didn't use female characters because they ran out of time/money/couldn't be arsed. They didn't use women because women were second on the to-do list. Because men are default. Which is some kind of prejudice.

Put up or shut up. Instead of having fat rants about presumptions actually go and establish, actually find evidence that they didn't include women because they don't like them.

Sexism is broader than misogyny. Just because the developers of Brink, or any other game, don't hate women, doesn't mean that not including women in the game isn't sexist.

 

[justnotcricket]

Once again.

Female Models > A few hundred male clothing options.

I cared at one point when I first saw the trailer. The lack of female models annoyed me though, so I examined the game a lot more closely than I would have otherwise. I may have been willing to overlook the issues I have with it had there actually been the customizability they claimed there was, but not now.

Maybe for you female models beat all that extra customization. But they aren't looking to target you with this game. They're looking to target the biggest possible audience, and that being the case, they're on the right track. You're kidding yourself if you think this will stop a significant amount of female gamers from playing it. They're used to this.

That doesn't mean we can't be disappointed that the trend continues, and object to it when it crops up. =S I agree that if the gameplay is good, it doesn't matter what gender the main character is, *but* if the game is going to start touting its customizability, the gender discrepancy becomes that much more obvious.

I have no problem playing Nathan Drake - I won't always insist on playing Lara Croft instead. But in those games there is no pretense at choice. That's just the character you play as. If the game tells me I can customize my character, I'm going to want to be a girl, sometimes.

 

[Master Kuja]

Frankly it doesn't bother me that much because Splash Damage has gone absolutely all out on the character customisation to prove that it's incredibly well done and a lot of detail has been put into it, just because they didn't include female avatars, doesn't make them lazy. It could be due to budget or time constraints (christ knows how many times that game's been delayed already).

But hell, whatever way you swing it, a lot of time and effort has been put into the customisation system, and as the first response stated, I'd rather have one full assed character customisation than two half-assed ones.

Well, I'll handle this. I think what Garfunkel up here is trying to say is that you should all take a second, think seriously about what is really bothering you and then have a big, group unbunching of your panties.

Points for the Dr. Kelso quote there.

 

[squeekenator]

There is no mystical sexist oppressive bullshit going on. Y'know why men are considered the default in video games? Because the games are made by men. Men make the games, men consider men the default option because they're men, male is the default character in games.

That would fit the general definition of "sexist bullshit."

So would wanting to play a woman in every game, by your logic. Because women defaulting to thinking about women is evil, sexist and oppressive, amirite?

If, in some hypothetical far-future world, the game industry only portrays female protagonists, of course that would be sexist. We don't live in that hypothetical far-future world, we live in a world where the default is male (and not just in games). The goal is not to become a society where the default is female, the goal is to not have a default.

Way to completely ignore the issue. Men make male main characters. Women make female main characters. This is because people do consider themselves, to some degree, to be the default, if only subconsciously. That isn't sexist, and even if it is it's entirely meaningless and has no impact on anything ever. Bitching about it serves no purpose other than to irritate others. If, in soem hypothetical far-future world, the game industry only portrayed female protagonists it would be because the designers were female. There's nothing wrong with that.

Lol wut. No, people can make PCs of another gender. Yoshio Sakamoto gave us Samus, an almost entirely male (http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/borderlands/details?recent-sort=userscore) dev team gave us Lilith, etc. All they have to do is, you know, design a female character and decide "she's the protagonist."

Obviously. I'm talking in trends, not absolutes. I have only anecdotal evidence, but I'm sure you'll agree that most of the time men will make male characters and most of the time women will make female characters. Because most people designing games are men, main characters are more likely to be male. Stop trying to interpret this as some sort of oppressive attack on women and grow up.

 

[Korolev]

I agree. It's disappointing. They should have taken the time to include both. Then again, TF2 has no female class either. But, then again, TF2 isn't built around character customization (unless you count those blasted hats).

 

[Zeema]

personally i think its simply easier to only include male characters, for example:

larger builds are slower and resist more damage (like the heavy), whereas smaller builds are faster but yet resist less damage (like the scout).

adding in females on top of this formula makes this more complicated.

imagine a female heavy :S that doesnt really fit.

Female Heavy Susan Boyle

Female Medium- ???????

Female Small- Super Models

yeh im a jerk

but i think Female shud be available its not really fair unless

ITS A TRAP....DLC

 

[Trolldor]

It's utterly sexist to assume that every game needs female characters.

So we should just let this one slide? And the next? And the one after that? Hell no. It is not sexist to ask why a game doesn't have female characters.

It is incredibly sexist to assume that the only reason they didn't include female characters is because they chortled at the idea of a woman outside the kitchen.

Who is assuming that? Sexism isn't just explicit misogyny any more that racism is just lynchings. It is a manifestation of sexism when male = default.

It is utterly sexist to claim that the only reason they didn't use female characters was due to some sort of prejudice.

No, they didn't use female characters because they ran out of time/money/couldn't be arsed. They didn't use women because women were second on the to-do list. Because men are default. Which is some kind of prejudice.

Put up or shut up. Instead of having fat rants about presumptions actually go and establish, actually find evidence that they didn't include women because they don't like them.

Sexism is broader than misogyny. Just because the developers of Brink, or any other game, don't hate women, doesn't mean that not including women in the game isn't sexist.

What nonsense.


They didn't use women because in the context of the game the only way they could use them was by making them physically masculine.

 

[Trolldor]

Female Heavy Susan Boyle

Female Medium- ???????

Female Small- Super Models

yeh im a jerk

but i think Female shud be available its not really fair unless

ITS A TRAP....DLC

Or it could go Female Heavy = Vonda Ward, Female Medium = Gina Carano, Female Light = Summer Glau.

That's what I never get about people who get all weirded out about the possibility of female characters being anything other than the lightweight character - there are actual women, IRL, who are big/strong.

And big, strong women look a lot like big, strong men. Only uglier.

If they had included them the same demographic would be having a fat cry at how they "made the the women masculine" and blaming it on prejudice.

 

[Podunk]

Well other than the "equality for everyone thing", I was thinking I didn't have a real problem with the lack of a female customization option and would still get the game. It's a given that character customization usually starts with selecting a gender, and not only female games choose to create and play female characters, but if the Dev team has some grand vision for their all-boys shooty gun game then I suppose that's their prerogative. But my god people, I can't believe so many of you are whining and bitching because you want some extra pants for your avatar or just flat-out don't think female gamers deserve anything nice. You guys remind me a lot of that Big Picture MovieBob did called "Correctitude".

Also, the absolute worst excuse in the thread is "Other shooters don't have female characters, so it's okay." Completely moronic because A. Some of them do. B. Is there any reason why they shouldn't? and C. Other shooters don't usually offer character customization on any deep level. It's always amazing to see what weak excuses and complete, utter confusion over the issue people will wind themselves up in.

/rant

 

[KFalcon]

Well other than the "equality for everyone thing", I was thinking I didn't have a real problem with the lack of a female customization option and would still get the game. It's a given that character customization usually starts with selecting a gender, and not only female games choose to create and play female characters, but if the Dev team has some grand vision for their all-boys shooty gun game then I suppose that's their prerogative. But my god people, I can't believe so many of you are whining and bitching because you want some extra pants for your avatar or just flat-out don't think female gamers deserve anything nice. You guys remind me a lot of that Big Picture MovieBob did called "Correctitude".

Also, the absolute worst excuse in the thread is "Other shooters don't have female characters, so it's okay." Completely moronic because A. Some of them do. B. Is there any reason why they shouldn't? and C. Other shooters don't usually offer character customization on any deep level. It's always amazing to see what weak excuses and complete, utter confusion over the issue people will wind themselves up in.

/rant

I actually had to register, just to quote this epic post. Well written.

 

[Trolldor]

And big, strong women look a lot like big, strong men. Only uglier.

If they had included them the same demographic would be having a fat cry at how they "made the the women masculine" and blaming it on prejudice.

Lol, heavy weapons guy/brick type characters are never attractive. It goes with the territory. It is okay for video game characters to be unattractive.

But for the midweight example, you should google Gina Carano and get back to me.

Why would I do that? Surely you could go post an image yourself.

And I never said Heavy-esque men were physically attractive. I just said equivalent-sized women were even uglier.

 

[kabooz18]

Yeah, It's mone of the first things about this game that realized and I see this as really negative since it's just illogical.
Then I thought TF2 and CSS also don't have female characters but then again in those games you play either a gameplay role like in TF2, sure you could add female skins and meshes but it's not important IMHO since the game is clearly not meant to be realistic and not based on the individuality of the peoply playing it.
CSS is the same, gameplay only you never see parts of yourself except in replays or when you die
both those games focus soley on fun through gameplay.

where as Brink offers huge ammount of customization... except you can't play as a female character... why this IMMENSLY half assed decision for customization? are there no females on the ark is there only one gender?

games where the character you play doesn't matter should obviously not matter at all since let's be honest you could play CSS with an all female crew and NOTHING would change (except if the design team stupid enough is to dress them half naked or idiotic stuff like that)

but with Character customization like this you've got to ask your self what kind of shitstorm would it unleash if you could play as any ethnic group besides afro-american (aka black people for the rest of the world)

it's just stupid ... or is it they could explain it very well to in the ingame world and make a better story background because of it who knows^^ *shrugs* I just hope they don't do something stupid like just having all women absent

 

[Trolldor]

And big, strong women look a lot like big, strong men. Only uglier.

If they had included them the same demographic would be having a fat cry at how they "made the the women masculine" and blaming it on prejudice.

Lol, heavy weapons guy/brick type characters are never attractive. It goes with the territory. It is okay for video game characters to be unattractive.

But for the midweight example, you should google Gina Carano and get back to me.

Why would I do that? Surely you could go post an image yourself.

And I never said Heavy-esque men were physically attractive. I just said equivalent-sized women were even uglier.

So, why do you think the attractiveness of heavy-esque characters only matters when they are female?

Re: Gina Carano, I'm to lazy right now to find and post images. Good real-world example of a person who fits conventional beauty standards and is really tough, and has actually played a character in a video game. The only person who, to my knowledge, has won awards for being attractive *and* for punching people in the face. So, if publishers are 100% dead-set on not having female characters who don't fit conventional beauty standards, (which they unfortunately might be) they still have no excuse for making them look physically weak when that makes no sense in the context of the character haha.

I never said that "it only matters". I'm saying that muscular women are off-putting in a way that muscular men are not. This is true for most people.
Muscular men have been touted around for several millenia. Muscular women? Not so much.