Brink : No Girls Allowed

[Moonlight Butterfly]

You know you can only play Chell in portal don't see a 16 page thread about that,

People whining about this are just being unreasonable in my eyes. They gave thier reason for leaving a female character out, they didn't have time or resources to implement it along with what they wanted to do for the male character. Complaining about it just makes you look childish and nieve.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

I bet you wouldn't see this thread if there was a game that allowed you to make females but not males.

No, but you'd see one twice as long.

You know you can only play Chell in portal don't see a 16 page thread about that,

Because that game is centered around a single, specific character. There's a difference.

People whining about this are just being unreasonable in my eyes. They gave thier reason for leaving a female character out, they didn't have time or resources to implement it along with what they wanted to do for the male character. Complaining about it just makes you look childish and nieve.

Because accusing people of "whining" and calling them "childish and naïve" really reflects well on you. Gotcha.

The "resources" argument is ludicrous, always has been, and always will be. We've already been over why.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Because accusing people of "whining" and calling them "childish and naïve" really reflects well on you. Gotcha.

The "resources" argument is ludicrous, always has been, and always will be. We've already been over why.

Not really the fact that you are arguing that you are entitled to play a female character in Brink is really quite childish. It's unreasonable to expect them to cater to your every whim. They at least apologised and explained why they couldn't include the option in the game rather than say 'girls dont play games lol'. How is the resources argument ludicrous? The fact that you dont understand the process that goes into a video game is nieve. Money makes the world go around. They wanted to do certain things with the character they figured out they couldn't stretch that to a female option. .

I'm not entirely sure why you find that unreasonable.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

Not really the fact that you are arguing that you are entitled to play a female character in Brink is really quite childish. It's unreasonable to expect them to cater to your every whim.

I could argue that calling people "childish" smacks of the schoolyard tactic of calling one's opponent a baby. That said, crying self-entitlement on people is a derailing tactic.

They at least apologised and explained why they couldn't include the option in the game rather than say 'girls dont play games lol'. How is the resources argument ludicrous? Money makes the world go around. They wanted to do certain things with the character they figured out they couldn't stretch that to a female option.

Their explanation added up to female characters being less of a priority than clothing and hairstyles. Keep in mind that character models are usually a high priority.

I'm not entirely sure why you find that unreasonable.

Myself and several others have explained several times over. Also, insulting people is inherently unreasonable.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Also, insulting people is inherently unreasonable.

Considering the only rebuttal you could come up with is to draw attention to the words I used I think that pretty much weakens your position.

It's not only the clothes that would have to be edited the interaction with the environment other characters, animations etc. They made a decision that it was too much. As a woman I don't find that unreasonable or sexist. If it was a an androgynous character like Spore you wouldn't be bothered. I'm going to enjoy the game when it comes out not having boobs isn't going to bother me in the slightest.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

Considering the only rebuttal you could come up with is to draw attention to the words I used I think that pretty much weakens your position.

Considering that you ignored all but the last line of my post, I think that pretty much invalidates yours.

Again: character models are normally a priority in games that involve a player character. But female character models were not a priority at all for Splash Damage (or at very least, less of one than a bunch of customization options, provided one accepts their false-dichotomy excuse). There's something wrong with that picture.

 

[Hybridwolf]

I suspect a reason will be thrown in the story somewhere, like maybe there is only a limited population of females left, or they aren't allowed to fight because they are the only way to repopulate the city for the victors. It remains to be seen, and I'm withholding judgment until I've had a chance to play the game.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

So, women want MMOs? And you wonder why they wouldn't bother trying to make a shooter to appeal to female gamers?

"Rift did it right" does not equal "women just want MMOs."

See the post above yours.

If the majority of female gamers are wrapped up in MMOs/casual games, that's where they're likely to stay. At least until somebody attempts to translate the formula of casual games or MMOs into a shooter. God forbid.[/quote]Those numbers are inexact.

Again: not all female gamers admit to being women on the Internet; there's something of a stigma, to put it politely. And this is especially obvious in the shooter community.

It's not that including the female characters might have lost some of the male audience, but reducing the customization on the male side to manage to fit female models may have.

You can't be serious.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

Perhaps not, but shooters do seem to be the least popular genre among female gamers regardless. So I'd say it's understandable when they're the last thing on the minds of a developer making a shooter.

Let me rephrase: The shooter community is openly hostile towards women. Hell, you get a lot of that in the gamer community as a whole, but at least other genres try to counterbalance that. (And yes, MMOs are a big one. Or, at very least, Rift is.)

This is, at best, Splash Damage shrugging and saying "oh, well, it's not like girls play video games." The extensive customization just makes their excuse ring all the more hollow.

Sure, but those numbers were drawn up through anonymous polling. 40% sounds about right for the actual number, but hell if I can find a single female to admit she's a gamer personally. Just another reason developers aren't eager to market to female gamers. There's no guarantee that they'll buy your game one way or another when so many would obviously be embarrassed to be seen playing it. While that stigma may be partially imposed by the internet or online gaming, it's also very much rooted in one's own self-image issues. Probably doesn't help that females in general are so much more vicious to each other over being different, either. None of this is coming from a sexist place, FYI, it's just what I've observed.

I'm sorry, but I don't think I'd like any of the women that you know. They sound catty and insincere. And just so you know: such behavior is not an inescapable consequence of having ovaries.

I can indeed. Who's to say what impact that might have had on the target audience. I personally wouldn't have cared less, but the developers are going to go in whatever direction is likely to make them the most money.

So in other words, you're saying that their target demographic is boys who like to play with fashion dolls. Gotcha.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Considering the only rebuttal you could come up with is to draw attention to the words I used I think that pretty much weakens your position.

Considering that you ignored all but the last line of my post, I think that pretty much invalidates yours.

Again: character models are normally a priority in games that involve a player character. But female character models were not a priority at all for Splash Damage (or at very least, less of one than a bunch of customization options, provided one accepts their false-dichotomy excuse). There's something wrong with that picture.

Again you didn't answer any of the issues I raised. I only quoted that part of your post becuase I didn't want to spam the whole thing again. I can only assume you don't have an answer... I'm a woman and I don't find the lack of women in Brink offensive...at all.
I also don't think the shooter community is hostile to women.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

Again you didn't answer any of the issues I raised. I only quoted that part of your post becuase I didn't want to spam the whole thing again. I can only assume you don't have an answer...

What are you talking about? I did answer your "issues" (or rather, Splash Damage's ridiculous excuse trotted out as if it were valid). Twice over, in fact.

The fact that you ignored my answer--or some desire on your part to keep dismissing people's complaints as self-entitled petulance rather than acknowledging that there is something wrong with this picture--that's really not on me.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Again you didn't answer any of the issues I raised. I only quoted that part of your post becuase I didn't want to spam the whole thing again. I can only assume you don't have an answer...

What are you talking about? I did answer your "issues" (read: Splash Damage's ridiculous excuse). Twice over, no less.

It's not on me if you ignored it.

It's not really ridiculous is it. Which was my point. The fact that they actually drew attention to it and apologised says alot for them I think.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

It's not really ridiculous is it. Which was my point. The fact that they actually drew attention to it and apologised says alot for them I think.

So...if they draw attention to the fact that female characters were less of a priority than "trillions" of ways to customize male characters, that somehow justifies the fact that female characters were the lesser priority?

And that's if one acknowledges their statement as an "apology." I wouldn't call it one, by a long shot.

 

[nukethetuna]

Aw, I wanted to play as a girl. Oh well, guess I'll play as a guy.

 

[Serenegoose]

The whole problem is that it's the attitude of women being treated as an other to the 'default' human experience which is male. I mean, male character models were a given, but women were lumped in with -character customisation- as an option. In fact, they were dumped when character customisation is kept.
That rings alarm bells to me in a pretty significant way.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

It's not really ridiculous is it. Which was my point. The fact that they actually drew attention to it and apologised says alot for them I think.

So...if they draw attention to the fact that female characters were less of a priority than "trillions" of ways to customize male characters, that somehow justifies the fact that female characters were the lesser priority?

And that's if one acknowledges their statement as an "apology." I wouldn't call it one, by a long shot.

They clearly decided what they wanted to do with the character customiszation when they started. As time went on this became unrealistic with two sets of animations etc. A similar reason to why they didn't implement height changes in The Sims 3. To me this seems a reasonable excuse to not stretch to the female avatar.

If the characters had remained androgynous would there be all this trouble? Like in Darkspore where none of the creatures look especially female.

 

[nukethetuna]

The whole problem is that it's the attitude of women being treated as an other to the 'default' human experience which is male. I mean, male character models were a given, but women were lumped in with -character customisation- as an option. In fact, they were dumped when character customisation is kept.
That rings alarm bells to me in a pretty significant way.

That's not a new problem, sadly. I don't think it's something you take up with the developer of a video game that just wanted to put out a good/successful product. It's something you take up with the various institutions and social pressures that lead to (the US, at the very least) society being primarily male-centered, male-dominated, patriarchal, or in this specific case, male identified.