Britain's Anti-Games Politician Says He's Pro-Games

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Trivun

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Dec 13, 2008
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The silly thing is, unlike the likes of Thompson and Atkinson, who really do seem to hate the industry itself, Keith Vaz makes good points about games. He seems to actually understand games as a medium far more than his US and Australian counterparts. And the silliest bit of all is that in general, I do agree with him on some parts. Though I disagree with his demonisation of games like Counterstrike, or Bully (a game where you actually go around fighting against the bullies), and I disagree with the demonisation of things like Grand Theft Auto (where you have reason within the game to go around killing people and stuff, just like in, say, war games and other shooters). I do actually agree with him on some points. I agree that Manhunt 2 should have been banned, and that the first game should never have even been made. Because that sort of game is just slaughter for the sake of slaughter (you get points based on how gruesome the death is, for Io's sake). So he does make some decent points.

Overall, I can't say I don't like the man. He at least makes an effort to be involved with the industry to some degree before bashing games. And he's shown with this that when decent games that anyone can play and enjoy are being made he's in complete favour of it. That's the right way for someone in his position to approach things. So overall, fair play to the man. he may be anti-violent games, but he's much more well meaning and reasonable than others in his position. Kudos, Mr Vaz. Kudos.
 
Apr 28, 2008
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The_root_of_all_evil said:
Hold on, I just spotted this on a re-read

an event where British MP's could play games for themselves and discuss the gaming industry.
So, they had a LAN party? Which I assume we paid for...

And snacks and nibbles of course...

Tell me, America, what would you feel like doing if the Senate got a day off to play computer games? Or the Australian Attorney-Generals getting down for a Shrimp and Surf barbie?
On one hand, I'd be glad more people are playing games.
On the other hand, I'd be insanely pissed that instead of using our tax dollars for something that actually needs them(like, oh I don't know, education) it went to a convention for them to play games.

OT: Basically, what these guys said:

moretimethansense said:
The Human Torch said:
Woodsey said:
His idea of respecting the age limits is banning anything that's given them?

Right then, moron.
I agree with Woodsey, even though this guy seems to be more levelheaded than Jack Thompson, he still has the wrong idea on how to handle this. Some games are aimed at adults, kids who manage to play those games have parents who are barely paying attention. Not that you can control 100% what your kid does, but blame the parents, not the developers who make games for adults.
There's really not much more for me to add to this.

It kinda bugs me how many of you are willing to swallow this tripe, "I@m only against the games I don't like." Well bully for you, now sod off and stop trying to trick these nice people with your doublespeak.
 

Amnestic

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Aug 22, 2008
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Deathsaw said:
Game ratings, being either PEGI, ESRB or other, could be a bit more specific.
Perhaps, but I'm not really sure why they should have to be. The age ratings often err on the side of caution to begin with (Mass Effect 1 is an 'M' in the U.S. It's a 12 in the U.K.), there are shop clerks to answer questions, possibly show you how it plays if you're concerned, and then you could just look up the longer more in depth report on the ratings website if you want. To take ODST:

http://www.esrb.org/ratings/synopsis.jsp?Certificate=26728


Rating: Mature

Content descriptors: Blood, Language, Violence

Rating summary:

This is a first-person shooter in which players engage in futuristic battles against invading aliens. Players use pistols, sniper rifles, machine guns, and rocket launchers to shoot and kill enemies during the constant and fast-paced battle. Firefights are highlighted by camera effects (e.g., blurring and screen shakes) and realistic sound effects, including screams of pain, gunfire, and explosions. Puffs of blood are emitted from injured aliens/humans, and blood is sometimes smeared on walls and on the ground. Some profanity (e.g., "bullsh*t," "a*shole," and "bastard") can be heard in the dialogue and radio chatter.

They're not going to be able to fit all that, reasonably, on a game box. Not with all the other stuff they put on there.
 

kikon9

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Aug 11, 2010
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I would like games to have age limits based on the ESRB, that is a good idea, it would paint us better in the public light.
 

Macgyvercas

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Feb 19, 2009
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Hmmm...This is an interesting development.

But it's still not good enough to get him removed from my List of Things That Piss Me Off.
 

Deathsaw

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Aug 22, 2007
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Amnestic said:
Rating: Mature

Content descriptors: Blood, Language, Violence

Rating summary:

This is a first-person shooter in which players engage in futuristic battles against invading aliens. Players use pistols, sniper rifles, machine guns, and rocket launchers to shoot and kill enemies during the constant and fast-paced battle. Firefights are highlighted by camera effects (e.g., blurring and screen shakes) and realistic sound effects, including screams of pain, gunfire, and explosions. Puffs of blood are emitted from injured aliens/humans, and blood is sometimes smeared on walls and on the ground. Some profanity (e.g., "bullsh*t," "a*shole," and "bastard") can be heard in the dialogue and radio chatter.

They're not going to be able to fit all that, reasonably, on a game box. Not with all the other stuff they put on there.
I could sum those sentences down to a few words each:

Realistic Guns
Battle Scenes/Sounds
Blood Effects/Decals
Tier 1-3 Language

You may have to increase the dimensions a bit, but I think that could fit reasonably well on a box. Talking to a clerk is a good idea, as is visiting the website, but I don't see why a touch of detail is a bad thing. Since Mass Effect 1 is "M" in the US but "12" in the UK, that detail could help a parent make an informed decision. "Blood, Language, Partial Nudity, Sexual Themes, Violence" could use a bit of flushing out IMO.
 

Norix596

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Nov 2, 2010
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That is an excellent idea -- hosting an even where anti-gaming politicians can come and see for themselves; we should defiantly try this in America.
 

lostzombies.com

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Apr 26, 2010
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Sixcess said:
lostzombies.com said:
Manhunt 3 for Kinnect!

Do it! Do it!
Nah, has to be for the Move. They already have a suitably psychotic looking advertising campaign.

OT: Not impressed. This isn't Vaz seeing sense. This is Vaz seeing he can't do shit and trying to back off with some dignity intact.
Nah no way, you have to be able to throttle someone's neck with your actual hands or actually put the plastic bag over the guy's head. you can't do that whie holding a controller ie move/wii
 

MGlBlaze

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Oct 28, 2009
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Amnestic said:
He calls for "clearer" ratings but I'm not really sure how much clearer a giant 18 sticker can be.
Parhaps making the label about half the box-art?
No, I have no idea either.
 

ChillShark

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Oct 13, 2010
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This reminds me of that politician that lobbied to ban gay marriage, only to be caught later in a bathroom stall doing rude acts with another man.
 

Deathsaw

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Aug 22, 2007
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MGlBlaze said:
Amnestic said:
He calls for "clearer" ratings but I'm not really sure how much clearer a giant 18 sticker can be.
Parhaps making the label about half the box-art?
No, I have no idea either.
If you scroll up, I'm sure you'll find out.
 

SinisterGehe

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May 19, 2009
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UFriday said:
Huh.
Now there's a turn-up for the books.
Nice to see an actually sane anti-voilent games lobbyist, though.
Agreed.
Finally someone who says, part of the game industry is a problem, not the whole industry.
In a sense I agree, little kids (ages 10 and below) Shouldn't be playing k-18 games, they don't understand the things there are behind it. Not talking about the killing in those games, I am talking of the reasons of why people kill others, not saying kids are stupid they just can't understand the complex moral/ethical/reasons in there, but I don't know maybe some kid can't but majority can't.
Violent games are fun to play, if they have taste in them, I do not agree with mindless slaughter (ex: Manhunt). But just thin about your favorite game (Puzzle games don't really count here) and think it as completely pacifistic along with no, swears, racial/sexual/gender conflicts how would that game look like?
I myself would think wow, what would the game be without PvP, let alone PvE. The game doesn't exist without killing something.
The people who make decision must realize that kids aren't stupid (It is a common and bad trend to think that they are now days). They know if something is wrong. My parents trusted me when I was growing up, they let me play any game or watch any movie I want, if there was content I didn't like, I didn't play it nor did I watch it. My parents knew that. Parent should talk with their kids and encourage them to talk to them about issue that bother them in games or media in general. They should be helped to rationalize these things, we should never remove them completely.
 

CD-R

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The_root_of_all_evil said:
Hold on, I just spotted this on a re-read

an event where British MP's could play games for themselves and discuss the gaming industry.
So, they had a LAN party? Which I assume we paid for...

And snacks and nibbles of course...

Tell me, America, what would you feel like doing if the Senate got a day off to play computer games? Or the Australian Attorney-Generals getting down for a Shrimp and Surf barbie?
I'm pretty sure the event was paid for and organized by the lobbying group Gamers Voice.
 

Cyberjester

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Oct 10, 2009
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I like his views. There's no reason for a 5 year old to be playing Manhunt. It's a game that I very much want to play the full version of, the hacked copies just don't do it justice. But it should be kept out of reach of minors. In this case, minor being below the legal age for sex, drinking, driving, shooting. 18 works in most countries, keeping the extremely brutal games limited to those considered marginally more mature by the state is quite reasonable.


And for any of you complaining who don't live in Aus, come down here. Remember how most games are banned from this country, and the rest don't turn up anyway? Well, they were going to put the debate before parliament about having R18 games, but the Aus Sex Party jumped on board, all 18 Rating! Yea! Bestiality ftw!

Which of course confused them all so the debate will be happening later this year instead. Now, the main drive at the moment is to increase the rating system to allow R18+ in video games. The reasons gamers were pushing for it was because 1), games that should have been restricted were simply MA, and 2), games that were otherwise fine were being censored. Think L4D2 as censored, Soldier of Fortune for should have been restricted.

But politicians now have decided to appease the masses and do some good ol' manipulation at the same time.

There is going to be an R18+ rating introduced, and games are still going to be censored. Just M will become MA, MA will become R, R still won't really exist.

So if you Brits and USA'ians complain about your rating system, spare a thought for us poor sods down under. -.-


westx207 said:
Generic_Dave said:
They came for the inappropriate video games but I did not play them, so I said nothing...
I lul'd.

I absolutely agree. It's clear that this guy's idea of responsibility in the industry involves liberal application of the government Banhammer. The fact that he doesn't want to ban everything (i.e., games he likes) does not make him pro-games.

I seriously wonder if his anti-game history is also just a political fabrication to curry favor and support his career.
Nah, this guy made a point that he was against exceptionally violent games being available to minors. Do you require photo ID to buy a game? Don't in Aus. A ten year old can pick up the latest MA FPS with no questions asked. So some politicians, like this one, can actually have a point to their perceived lunacy.
Granted, it can just be politics playing out. HOWEVER, you have a politician willing to at least pretend to play ball, encourage that, don't slam them for it. Write a letter telling them how.. Reasoned and intelligent their arguments sounded, how you respect their opinion and how you'd like to see an attitude like that more often in politics. Someone who recognises the need to limit games to minors, and yet doesn't take it out on the industry as a whole.

Nothing overly soppy, just something to encourage other politicians to fall into line.
 

BabyRaptor

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The_root_of_all_evil said:
Hold on, I just spotted this on a re-read

an event where British MP's could play games for themselves and discuss the gaming industry.
So, they had a LAN party? Which I assume we paid for...

And snacks and nibbles of course...

Tell me, America, what would you feel like doing if the Senate got a day off to play computer games? Or the Australian Attorney-Generals getting down for a Shrimp and Surf barbie?
The Republicans once tried to pass a bill to be allowed to be paid for watching porn while on the floor.

Personally, now that those...people...have any semblence of power again, I'd rather they play games. They've wrecked the country enough as is.
 

SenseOfTumour

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Jul 11, 2008
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Him showing up at the Gamer's voice event is like Ronald McDonald showing up at a vegan ethics convention.

I can't say I trust him, with his record, if I'm honest, I didn't believe he was even against violent video games in the first place, it was just an easy way to get a few positive reports in the Daily Mail.

However, I do dislike the hatred of 'u-turns' in the current media, all a u-turn is, is an admission that you've rethought your position, realised that you were wrong and are willing to admit it and move on. Surely better than someone who just sticks to their guns and claims that pork really is a fruit.

I'm not gonna be defending him, as I still don't trust him as far as I could kick him upstairs. But, if it turns out to be a first step towards actually being sensible about things, then great. He can slowly dig his way out of the hole he's in with video game playing voters, and I'll stop kicking the earth back in.

I also heartily disagree that there's much more we could do to make labels clearer, and we certainly don't need to exceed DVD labelling, DVD's have the capability to be far more explicit and realistic.

I think we need to remember too, that with every passing year, we'll become less and less the minority, and more and more gamers will be involved in politics, and maybe we can stop explaining what a 'nintendo' is to some doddery old bastard in a dusty suit, and how it doesn't actually eat babies, no matter what today's headlines said.
 

JoshGod

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Aug 31, 2009
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The only way for an underage person to get a game is it to be given by someone who has it. Therefore either you are unhappy with the rating system, the parents or you are an idiot/ignorant.
 

DataSnake

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Norix596 said:
That is an excellent idea -- hosting an even where anti-gaming politicians can come and see for themselves; we should defiantly try this in America.
One mission in Postal 2 was to get signatures for a petition "to make whiny congressmen play violent video games."