Bullying: Stop the complaining.

[andrewfox]

Bullying has been HUGE in the states of recent years. "HUGE" in the sense that it's been in the media more, not that it hasn't been around.

Growing up, I experienced my fair share of bullying. Ranged from insults, to actual fights. But, I was taught to always stand up to bullies and stick up for others who were being bullied. Disagreements or bullies that took things to far usually ended up in the park, where we settled things with fists. One of us usually got the point after that.

The issue is this. WHY is bullying being presented in such a way today that it seems to make people want to jump off tall building?

Yea, it sucks, I get that. But in life, bullies will always be around. In fact, you can still find them in the grown up world. They just usually come from the back with a knife instead of a punch in the face.

Wouldn't a more apt solution to the bullying problem be to teach kids to stand up for themselves and others? The most common solutions that are being presented today are some of the most asinine things.

1. Telling a teacher
2. Ignoring it
3. ETC.

Most responses to bullies seem to be running away from the problem or shirking off the responsibility of the problem to a third party, RATHER then dealing with the issue yourself.

Maybe I'm old school, but in life, you can't wait for someone else to rescue you from your problems.

TOPIC:

Is the issue of bullying in the states a serious matter as presented in the media? Should kids learn to stand up for themselves? What are your personal experiences of bullying and how you handled them? What do you think of bulling overall?


(bullies, bully's, having a hard time with the English language.)

Thank you.

 

[Vault101]

snip.

yeah no

bullying is not acceptible..full stop

sure it would be nice to live in a world where people don't get picked on for being slightly different, but infortunatly due to the very nature of humans and the shit-headedness of teenagers it happens...and somtimes it happens so bad it create tradgey, and YES it is should be important to learn how to deal with bullies

but NO ONE deserves to be bullied, and somtimes no..YOU CAN;T just "deal with it"

you might claim because of your own experience that youve got it all figured out and can speak for everyone else but the fact is you are NOT everyone else..and your experiences are different to other peoples experiences...I think cases are different and have to be looked at that wya because there is no one-fix solution/ideal

somtimes when people use thease issues to start spewing darwinist bullshit it makes me want to punch somthing

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

Its

snip

There is a difference between a mild teasing and bullying. Look calling someone fat is ok as long as its in good fun and you are not doing it repeatedly. If you get called fat every day for 4 years straight your going to be affected as a person. Thats bullying. Thats what the big deal is.

 

[andrewfox]

Its

snip

There is a difference between a mild teasing and bullying. Look calling someone fat is ok as long as its in good fun and you are not doing it repeatedly. If you get called fat every day for 4 years straight your going to be affected as a person. Thats bullying. Thats what the big deal is.

Thanks for the spell check. Appreciate it.

There's a great quote by Nancy Reagan that goes along the lines of "not letting others affect how you feel". I may not be the smartest tool in the shed, but that idea goes a long way.

snip.

yeah no

bullying is not acceptible..full stop

sure it would be nice to live in a world where people don't get picked on for being slightly different, but infortunatly due to the very nature of humans and the shit-headedness of teenagers it happens...and somtimes it happens so bad it create tradgey, and YES it is should be important to learn how to deal with bullies

but NO ONE deserves to be bullied, and somtimes no..YOU CAN;T just "deal with it"

you might claim because of your own experience that youve got it all figured out and can speak for everyone else but the fact is you are NOT everyone else..and your experiences are different to other peoples experiences...I think cases are different and have to be looked at that wya because there is no one-fix solution/ideal

somtimes when people use thease issues to start spewing darwinist bullshit it makes me want to punch somthing

You're right. No one DESERVES to be bullied, but it's going to happen. Give me an example of where you can't just "deal with it." Also, give me some solutions to said bullying that works. Telling a teacher and ignoring it are two options (that in my life) have NEVER worked.

 

[Rose and Thorn]

That fact that half the people in school didn't bully people, shows me that it isn't something that HAS to exist. Bullying can be severe, very much so, and not only can it affect your quality life, it can affect your school work. No one deserves to be bullied and I for one support "bullying" as a topic in the media, the more people aware to how bad it is, the easier it will be for those people to seek help or have help seek them.

Some of the bullies I went to school with deserve to die, and I honestly believe that.

 

[Esotera]

There needs to be more of an emphasis on teaching people how to stand up for themselves, but that can go hand in hand with telling a teacher about it & everything we have in place now. Bullying is here for the foreseeable future, so we might as well teach kids to ignore the trolls.

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

Its

snip

There is a difference between a mild teasing and bullying. Look calling someone fat is ok as long as its in good fun and you are not doing it repeatedly. If you get called fat every day for 4 years straight your going to be affected as a person. Thats bullying. Thats what the big deal is.

Thanks for the spell check. Appreciate it.

There's a great quote by Nancy Reagan that goes along the lines of "not letting others affect how you feel". I may not be the smartest tool in the shed, but that idea goes a long way.

Oops that wasn't suppose to be there. That just text I didn't delete my bad. I don't do that spell check revising thing.

I agree 100%

 

[Pandalisk]

Phoebe Prince couldn't "Deal with it" but she didn't tell anyone and took her own life.
Why should anyone being hard done have to just "deal with it" and the people who are described as "Just dealing with it" are often the ones who commit suicide.

Telling a teacher is standing up for yourself, just not in a way your familiar with, in fact actually telling someone about it is a bravery in its self because its a very sensitive issue. So much bullying goes on because most students are under the impression that nobody cares, that it doesn't matter, or that they should "just deal with it" especially males which is why Irish males between 18-24 Have the highest suicide rate in the country

If the media does anything with its huge pumping out of bullying material i hope its at least the students become more open with telling someone about their problems and people, especially teachers, become more sensitive to the issue rather than sweeping it under the rug.

This whole concept of machismo in the face of a bulling is outdated and when the idea is shared by the elders who the young rely on it the concept perpetuates

 

[Thaluikhain]

Bullying leads lots of kids to take their own lives or indulge in other destructive behaviour.

Telling them it's not a problem and they should deal with it doesn't work. Ignoring the problem doesn't work.

Unfortunately, pretending you care about the problem until you actually have to do something about and then ignoring it also doesn't work, and that seems to be the approach currently in vogue.

 

[Vault101]

Thanks for the spell check. Appreciate it.

There's a great quote by Nancy Reagan that goes along the lines of "not letting others affect how you feel". I may not be the smartest tool in the shed, but that idea goes a long way.
.

its not somthing you can make go away by "getting over it" or using simplified phrases, brushing it off as a non-issue can somtimes be more harmful than good, it might be easy as an adult on the outside to "ignore the trolls" but in highschool that that insignificant BS such as freinds, social stuff, the social hightreachy is THE ENTIRE WORLD, being told thease things they belive it

its the kind of thing where peopel say people should just get over their depression

 

[disgruntledgamer]

For the most part I'd say no bullying is not acceptable. The flip side of that coin is we're becoming too politically correct, if someone is acting like an &^%$& He/she should be called out on it. I don't think Jimmy should get in trouble because he texted hurtful words to Billy on the weekend and it hurt his feelings. This is not helping people in the long run as people are going to say mean things to you as an adult. Your phone has an ignore button for a reason, use it.

However there is a difference between that and straight up harassment and photos cross the line. I personally wouldn't care, as I'm not bashful and don't really have anything to be bashful about, but I'm not a 16 year old girl and If I was and depending upon the context it could be devastating.

 

[andrewfox]

Phoebe Prince couldn't "Deal with it" but she didn't tell anyone and took her own life.
Why should anyone being hard done have to just "deal with it" and the people who are described as "Just dealing with it" are often the ones who commit suicide.

Telling a teacher is standing up for yourself, just not in a way your familiar with, in fact actually telling someone about it is a bravery in its self because its a very sensitive issue. So much bullying goes on because most students are under the impression that nobody cares, that it doesn't matter, or that they should "just deal with it" especially males which is why Irish males between 18-24 Have the highest suicide rate in the country

If the media does anything with its huge pumping out of bullying material i hope its at least the students become more open with telling someone about their problems and people, especially teachers, become more sensitive to the issue rather than sweeping it under the rug.

This whole concept of machismo in the face of a bulling is outdated and when the idea is shared by the elders who the young rely on it the concept perpetuates

I should probably say that when I mean "dealing with it" I don't mean just let it happen or not take action.

It seems that in media, emphasis is put on the idea that it is the SCHOOL's responsibility to fix the problem. This seems odd seeing as how parents SHOULD be the ones teaching their children about the the ways to solve bullying.

 

[JoJo]

To address one particular part of your OP, how is ignoring bullying not dealing with your own problems? Ignoring can be a surprisingly effective counter-bullying tactic, for example before I was a teenager I was relatively immature for my age and used to react strongly to bullies, often trying to fight them.

Once I hit puberty however I matured a good deal in a short time and calmed down, so when bullies tried to goad me into a fight or insult me I'd refuse to fight but crucially I'd also refuse to back down, or show emotion. Within a year the bullying almost dropped off entirely and for the rest of my secondary school years there was only a couple of minor incidents, never with the same person either. This was entirely by my own actions.

Ignoring is effective because when you get down to it, bullies bully to either amuse themselves or make themselves feel tough or better than the victim. Bullying someone who shows no reaction to you is not fun, nor does it makes you look like the bigger man if the victim refuses to budge. So perhaps OP you wouldn't have experienced such a "fair share" of bullying in your youth if you'd dealt with it responsibly rather than settling it over fists in the park?

~​

In regards the entire OP though, I agree with the others that bullying isn't something that should accepted and telling a teacher is also a legitimate tactic if you've already exhausted other means of preventing bullying. Standing up for yourself should be the first port of call but it won't work in every situation, just like in adult life: standing up for your friends in a bar argument might be a good idea, standing up for yourself against a gang of armed home-invaders rather than calling the police, perhaps not such a good idea.

 

[andrewfox]

Thanks for the spell check. Appreciate it.

There's a great quote by Nancy Reagan that goes along the lines of "not letting others affect how you feel". I may not be the smartest tool in the shed, but that idea goes a long way.
.

its not somthing you can make go away by "getting over it" or using simplified phrases, brushing it off as a non-issue can somtimes be more harmful than good, it might be easy as an adult on the outside to "ignore the trolls" but in highschool that that insignificant BS such as freinds, social stuff, the social hightreachy is THE ENTIRE WORLD, being told thease things they belive it

its the kind of thing where peopel say people should just get over their depression

So parents should teach their kids to understand and to not be involved in the said social hierarchy.

Kids are a lot smarter then people tend to believe.

I'm just worried that this anti-bullying and the measures it supports are going to drive people to stray away from hard situations or situations that require THEM to stand up for what they believe in. If kids are being told that the best options are telling someone or letting someone else (teacher, etc) deal with the issue instead of you, isn't that counter-intuitive?

Again, this isn't saying that "dealing with it" means "letting it happen". Dealing with it means standing up for yourself and solving the problems with your own courage.

 

[Pandalisk]

Phoebe Prince couldn't "Deal with it" but she didn't tell anyone and took her own life.
Why should anyone being hard done have to just "deal with it" and the people who are described as "Just dealing with it" are often the ones who commit suicide.

Telling a teacher is standing up for yourself, just not in a way your familiar with, in fact actually telling someone about it is a bravery in its self because its a very sensitive issue. So much bullying goes on because most students are under the impression that nobody cares, that it doesn't matter, or that they should "just deal with it" especially males which is why Irish males between 18-24 Have the highest suicide rate in the country

If the media does anything with its huge pumping out of bullying material i hope its at least the students become more open with telling someone about their problems and people, especially teachers, become more sensitive to the issue rather than sweeping it under the rug.

This whole concept of machismo in the face of a bulling is outdated and when the idea is shared by the elders who the young rely on it the concept perpetuates

I should probably say that when I mean "dealing with it" I don't mean just let it happen or not take action.

It seems that in media, emphasis is put on the idea that it is the SCHOOL's responsibility to fix the problem. This seems odd seeing as how parents SHOULD be the ones teaching their children about the the ways to solve bullying.

I know, my second paragraph relates to that. other than that, not much i have to say on that matter other than that there are better channels to go through.

Because its general perceived that a Parent would do anything to protect their child, the media brings up issue because outraged parents are drawing the lines between bullying and school apathy to the subject. To be honest its boths responsibility. It should be both's responsibility. One to teach the child to tell the school or themselves that there is a problem, and the school to rectify it on school property.

Thanks for the spell check. Appreciate it.

There's a great quote by Nancy Reagan that goes along the lines of "not letting others affect how you feel". I may not be the smartest tool in the shed, but that idea goes a long way.
.

its not somthing you can make go away by "getting over it" or using simplified phrases, brushing it off as a non-issue can somtimes be more harmful than good, it might be easy as an adult on the outside to "ignore the trolls" but in highschool that that insignificant BS such as freinds, social stuff, the social hightreachy is THE ENTIRE WORLD, being told thease things they belive it

its the kind of thing where peopel say people should just get over their depression

So parents should teach their kids to understand and to not be involved in the said social hierarchy.

Kids are a lot smarter then people tend to believe.

I'm just worried that this anti-bullying and the measures it supports are going to drive people to stray away from hard situations or situations that require THEM to stand up for what they believe in. If kids are being told that the best options are telling someone or letting someone else (teacher, etc) deal with the issue instead of you, isn't that counter-intuitive?

Again, this isn't saying that "dealing with it" means "letting it happen". Dealing with it means standing up for yourself and solving the problems with your own courage.

Why is telling someone an issue is arising somehow forsaking the ability to stand up for oneself? its just a way of doing so without fists or some other method. Why is this method someone less of "standing up for yourself than any other method that's directly confrontational? Telling does not somehow inherintley make someone become a sheep, it means they go about things in more proper channels
If i have an issue with my neighbour (and i did) what do i do? i first tell him about the issue(which i did) and if he does nothing (which he did) then i tell someone and bring it court (which i did). I didn't do anything different than telling a teacher essentially. Did i not "stand up for myself"? or i am somehow dependent on others because i decided to use proper channels and proper conduct?

 

[andrewfox]

To address one particular part of your OP, how is ignoring bullying not dealing with your own problems? Ignoring can be a surprisingly effective counter-bullying tactic, for example before I was a teenager I was relatively immature for my age and used to react strongly to bullies, often trying to fight them.

Once I hit puberty however I matured a good deal in a short time and calmed down, so when bullies tried to goad me into a fight or insult me I'd refuse to fight but crucially I'd also refuse to back down, or show emotion. Within a year the bullying almost dropped off entirely and for the rest of my secondary school years there was only a couple of minor incidents, never with the same person either. This was entirely by my own actions.

Ignoring is effective because when you get down to it, bullies bully to either amuse themselves or make themselves feel tough or better than the victim. Bullying someone who shows no reaction to you is not fun, nor does it makes you look like the bigger man if the victim refuses to budge. So perhaps OP you wouldn't have experienced such a "fair share" of bullying if your youth if you'd dealt with it responsibly rather than settling it over fists in the park?

You answered your own question. You DIDN'T ignore bullying.

"Once I hit puberty however I matured a good deal in a short time and calmed down........or insult me I'd refuse to fight but crucially I'd also refuse to back down, or show emotion."

You stood up for yourself.

The common idea of ignoring means it doesn't exist. For my personal experience, treating bullying as not existing meant that said bully would push even harder. Furthermore, I always noticed that the kids who pretended it never happened where also the ones who didn't stick up for others, they simply allowed it to happen.

As for the fist fight comment, as I said, I'm simple-minded (not meaning I'm dumb). I never was drawn in to name-calling and chest puffing. If you wanted to say something to be rude or to demean myself or others, that's fine. Just understand that I'm ready and willing to defend myself if it comes to that.

Which is why I always called out bullies with the simple line "Look, I'm not going to argue with you, you want to keep calling me that/treating me that way/ doing that to me, then lets meet at the park."

More often then not, the bully would back away from a comment like that.

 

[andrewfox]

Why is telling someone an issue is arising somehow forsaking the ability to stand up for oneself? its just a way of doing so without fists or some other method. Why is this method someone less of "standing up for yourself than any other method that's directly confrontational? Telling does not somehow inherintley make someone become a sheep, it means they go about things in more proper channels
If i have an issue with my neighbour (and i did) what do i do? i first tell him about the issue(which i did) and if he does nothing (which he did) then i tell someone and bring it court (which i did). I didn't do anything different than telling a teacher essentially. Did i not "stand up for myself"? or i am somehow dependent on others because i decided to use proper channels and proper conduct?

Ah, the critical point. School life, is different from real life, but situations and how you deal with them are similar.

The above sentence is confusing on its own, so let me explain.

How often, when/if you told a teacher about a bully, did it actually stop? How often after you told a teacher did it worsen?

See, your personal scenario is a textbook way to solve a solution, in the real-grown up world.

But there are too many factors involved to make comparisons.

1. You don't have to be in the same house as your neighbor
2. There is more at stake concerning financial and legal matters for both parties
3. You may have to live next to your neighbor but you don't have to see him everyday or even interact with him everyday.

School is something you HAVE to go to, you HAVE to deal with. There's no opt out.

In the end, drawing from personal experience and from what others who I have talked to about this matter, teachers usually ended up making the problem worse.

 

[Pandalisk]

Why is telling someone an issue is arising somehow forsaking the ability to stand up for oneself? its just a way of doing so without fists or some other method. Why is this method someone less of "standing up for yourself than any other method that's directly confrontational? Telling does not somehow inherintley make someone become a sheep, it means they go about things in more proper channels
If i have an issue with my neighbour (and i did) what do i do? i first tell him about the issue(which i did) and if he does nothing (which he did) then i tell someone and bring it court (which i did). I didn't do anything different than telling a teacher essentially. Did i not "stand up for myself"? or i am somehow dependent on others because i decided to use proper channels and proper conduct?

Ah, the critical point. School life, is different from real life, but situations and how you deal with them are similar.

The above sentence is confusing on its own, so let me explain.

How often, when/if you told a teacher about a bully, did it actually stop? How often after you told a teacher did it worsen?

See, your personal scenario is a textbook way to solve a solution, in the real-grown up world.

But there are too many factors involved to make comparisons.

1. You don't have to be in the same house as your neighbor
2. There is more at stake concerning financial and legal matters for both parties
3. You may have to live next to your neighbor but you don't have to see him everyday or even interact with him everyday.

School is something you HAVE to go to, you HAVE to deal with. There's no opt out.

In the end, drawing from personal experience and from what others who I have talked to about this matter, teachers usually ended up making the problem worse.

No, it meerly highlights a fault with American schools that bullying is a problem the school is having trouble dealing with, this is why there has been so much campaigns about it recent years.
As for my bullying in high school, i told the teacher, got it sorted and the kid was expelled, not once did i try and deal with it with my fists or words because i could tell a reaction is what he wanted. Second time, told a teacher and the new bully got suspended and didn't even talk to me after that.

Second, neighbor in an apartment complex, he lives on other side of me, i can sometimes hear him through the walls and i see him everyday and his actions were effecting me and those in other dorms. so, no, there is no opt out, i still have to see him everyday, but i only have to deal with his bullshit gaze now. And i'm still a teenager in the teenage world, still very much removed from the grown-up world, the people around me are still very much immature as they were in high school.

I could've beat him with my fists, i could've fought my bullies with my fists, but i didn't. Have i not "stood up for myself"?

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

Warning. Wall of text incoming. You have been warned.
---

Dude.

In the past, if you were getting bullied you COULD settle it with fisticuffs since a) kids were in better shape, since they played outside and stuff b) Bullies respected fighting back more and c) if you got into a fight with bullies, the school admins would be more like "Ah, good show young man! You stood up for yourself like a real man!".

Nowadays, most of the kids being picked on are physically weaker, school admins are apt to go "OMG YOU FOUGHT BACK?!?!? NO FIGHTING!!! EXPEL!!! EXPEL!!!!!!!!!!", and unless you fight back and scare the bully away right away, they will not be happy if you try to stand up for yourself once they've gotten used to picking on you and they might resort to more insidious bullying behind your back or they could get a gang of their buddies together to get payback.

Also, not all kids are fighters. I'm a pacifist. I don't like pain. I know it hurts. So I don't like to cause it to others because I know it sucks. It's an inborn thing for me. I'm just not a fighter. Does that mean I deserve to get picked on, since I'm too naturally kindhearted to fight back and hurt others?

And unless you have a bunch of truly loyal friends already, bullies will typically try to isolate you and make it much harder to make any friends and thus gain strength from them. They will try to make the whole school believe you are some loser that no one should care about, and then next thing you know, you'll have no one to watch your back as the bullies and their friends all gang up on you. Not to mention how EASY it is in a high school situation (read, a circus of monkeys) to blacklist someone. The victim is a boy? The bully and all his friends can spread rumors he's gay. The victim is a girl? Spread rumors she's a slut. Spread it wide and insidiously enough and BAM, instant social outcast as now the entire school believes it and the victim is now stuck with a hurtful label they can never get rid of which will make it REALLY easy to pick on them.

And then if the victim finally has enough and finally snaps and fights back, they'll get expelled for fighting, even though the bullies goaded them into doing it.

The worst part is the isolation. Believing the entire school hates you and wants nothing to do with you. I had half the school on my case, and I had guys YOUNGER THAN ME picking on me and spouting the same stupid BS that the main bullies were. It took me 3 years to make TWO friends. And the grand total of 2 friends I had were also major outcasts. One was a former crybaby who turned psycho and everyone was now scared of him, and the other was another "too nice" guy (Who eventually became a douche later on).

Bullying has been getting more and more insidious and nasty over the years, OP. This isn't some jocks shoving nerds around, where the solution is to "man up" (God I hate that phrase) and punch them back. This is full on social warfare and isolation, backed up by threats of violence, where fighting back will either incite more violence, or get the real victim expelled. Unless the school is really cool and will let things slide with just a suspension, and the victim counterattacks hard enough that he sends the message of "fuck with me and YOU WILL GET REALLY FUCKING HURT" (Like the casey incident) fighting back is just going to screw the victim more. And just "standing up four yourself"? Pfft, sure, just as long as nasty rumors haven't already begun to circulate. If that's the case, you are screwed and no amount of "standing up for yourself" will make the school stop thinking you are a loser of some kind.

I was isolated, mocked, shoved around, attacked in gym glass (being tackled when the teacher wasn't looking, getting passed the basketball by having it thrown at the back of my head, etc), shoved into a staircase railing incredibly hard, and a bunch of other shit I have since repressed for five fucking years. And the perpetrators only got any kind of punishment for it in my last year, excepting the main bully, who was the nephew of the VP of discipline and he got off scott free. I still have lingering issues. I have more or less forgiven most of the idiots due to them being...well, idiots. But that main bully? If I saw his grave and no one was watching, I would probably piss on it.

So yes, OP, bullying is s serious issue. I'm glad you found a way out. I didn't. Others can't. Bullying sucks and it needs to be stopped. It is social warfare backed by threats of assault. That shit ain't tolerated in the adult world, why should kids be allowed to do it?

Edit: GOD I hate topics like this. It brings back all the bad memories. I am literally shaking with anger right now.
Edit 2: *plays a round of Unreal to vent his rage*...Aaahh....that's better.

 

[ohnoitsabear]

Settling things with fists is always a terrible idea. Sure, it may have worked out alright for you, but usually what happens is the person being bullied gets their ass handed to them, and nothing is solved. And in the rare instances where the person being bullied does win, the bully (and their friends) will just get pissed off and continue the harassment. Really, the only instance where I can see using fists to solve a bullying problem would work is if it's just one person doing the bullying, which rarely, if ever happens in cases of serious bullying.

And please, whatever you do, do not try to act like bullying isn't a serious issue that doesn't deserve the attention it gets. Kids are fucking killing themselves because of this, so I really think that we need to do as much as possible to make sure it doesn't happen.

EDIT:

snip

I could not agree more.