"But it gets them reading."

[Terramax]

I think you're overblowing the effect books have on people; the only written works I've seen change people are religious texts. I've seen a particularly well written piece of poetry make someone think for a minute, but then it is forgotten.

And I'm not sure what you mean by a bad book; do you mean a book that teachs or contains poor lifestyle choices, or a book that doesn't make the reader think?

Basically both. I know my post may sound blown out of preportion, but you can't deny the fact that some kids do idolise the characters in certain books to the point of being obsessive and copying their very ways of thinking, living, etc. Maybe just reading one book won't effect a child, but continously reading the same types of single sided stories over and over.

Think of it like a reader of a Superhero book. Superhero defeats all his enemies/ villains by shooting them. If the reader idolises the superhero, he may even come to the ideology that shooting villains is the way to deal with all those who've commit crimes, or even those who simply don't see eye-to-eye with the superhero's ideologies.

A reader of these books will likely go on to read many, many more books in the same way. Yes, they will eventually (or hopefully) start reading more complex books, but not after having spent years and money on these fictitious books for which they've learned nothing from. Furthermore they may inherit those same pro-violence for peace ideologies that the superhero promoted.

Instead, they could've enjoyed reading a book with the complexities of a Studio Ghibli film, where the heroes and villains are multi-layered, the villains often not bad people at all but simply miss-directed. Right and wrong may be blurred in this story, but they prompt the reader to think individually about what it really means to be a good or bad, coming to their own conclusion instead of one being thrust upon them, all whilst still enjoying a fantastic story.

 

[Dramatic Flare]

No. I'm saying they shouldn't be marketed for profit only, when publishers know damn well its a bad book. I'm saying it should not be blithely accepted. I'm saying that teachers, the people we look to educate the next generation, should not lower the bar because of popular materials.
I'm saying there should be as much fluffy crap books written as anyone damn well wants, and it should remain fluffy crap. There are plenty of quality books that I don't enjoy, and likewise there are quality books that I enjoy that others won't. That's natural.

Phenomena such as, say, twilight, aren't natural.

But teachers are not lowering the bar.

I don't know how things work in America. But in Britain you get one classic text, which an exam is based on. They are other things too, poetry, a play (we had An Inspector Calls). I forget exactly how it works because it was a long time ago. But in my case the classic text was Jane Eyre. There was never any discussion on what we wanted to read or any modern, popular books.

So if the kids are reading what they want in their spare time then how are teachers lowering the bar?

Also, publishers are businesspeople. They attempt to make a profit, nothing else.

And I am in America and I can successfully say they are. Now, not every one of them is and I read as many good books as did bad books during my high school career. However I went to a private school with a corporate work intention. I had to also spend time in public schools and let me say- there were some schools where I just felt sad looking at the other kids. In one I was proudly informed the student had actually made his english teacher run out crying.

Also, let me draw the line and say that progressively getting better at reading as you get older is natural. I am not expecting a fourth grader to read Tolstoy. I am saying, however, that a society that argues that an young adult who doesn't push themselves, or at least try something beyond the unusual is okay has something intrinsically flawed.

And publishers are business people, however it is a relatively new phenomena to make a profit by marketing crap as good. Used to be you would attempt to simply outdo your opponents by having a better quality product. Now you can outdo your opponents by having a better quality marketing, and I do feel the average joe suffers in more ways than one.

If you think the world of literature is going to Hell. Need I remind you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformers_2 ($823,275,835)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ugly_Truth_(film) ($83,718,135)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bride_Wars ($115,049,554)

I am no movie snob, I mean I love Will Ferrell movies. But come on. The medium of films suffers worse from your problem. Especially seen as every popular book gets made into a movie. It is even more profitable as you don't even have to be able to read to go to the cinema.

Meh. The movie industry has always been relatively bad, actually, just with some gems that are produced infrequently. My dad created a list by grouping together a large group of people's suggestions on the best movies of all time, and we started in 1914 with a political movie in favor of the Ku Klux Klan that had just a completely ridiculous storyline.
Secondly, who's going to say, "Well, at least they're watching movies," when they see people watching bad ones?

 

[Dramatic Flare]

I'm going to get flamed for saying this but honestly I don't care. Books like the Twilight series should just be banned, for god sakes look at how crazy the fan base it for the nonesense.

No, I have to go Voltaire on this one.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

I'm not flaming you, just going to gently inform you that as a person who works at a book store, banning of any book for any reason is pretty much a bad idea.

 

[EchetusXe]

And I am in America and I can successfully say they are. Now, not every one of them is and I read as many good books as did bad books during my high school career. However I went to a private school with a corporate work intention. I had to also spend time in public schools and let me say- there were some schools where I just felt sad looking at the other kids. In one I was proudly informed the student had actually made his english teacher run out crying.

You can't push a wall. Not with any success at least. If children are brought up to believe that reading books are for homosexuals and that sport is the man's pursuit then how can a teacher combat that? Read 'Agnes Grey' to see just what effect a teacher has on a student compared to a parent.

Now I love sport, well one sport anyway, but American education systems put ridiculous amounts of money into pushing sport down the pupil's throats.

I understand that some college football coaches get paid millions. That is completely unheard of in Britain. Here sport is an optional, after school activity. As well as basic P.E. lessons which are about getting fit and having fun rather than any serious attempt at being ranked above competing schools. Nobody gives a toss how well well or poorly their school, college or University does at any sport. There are exceptions, like the Oxbridge boat race.

Hell, even the kids who were good at sport and bad at education would prefer to bunk off P.E. lessons and after school matches so they could go and do their own thing.

In conclusion, I would think the avocation of a mediocre sporting talent over learning is a bigger concern for America than the Twilight series.

 

[pigeon_of_doom]

I think the main problem is that literature aimed at younger readers rarely "scales up". It's rarely a lite version of a classic, it tends to be escapism intended to be popular and compulsive but without anything important to say. It reassures rather than challenges their beliefs and sets readers into reading habits they continue for the rest of their lives. They're on a course set more for pulp fiction and, despite the best efforts of their teachers, usually reject the classics forced upon them as "boring" or "irrelevant".

 

[Dramatic Flare]

And I am in America and I can successfully say they are. Now, not every one of them is and I read as many good books as did bad books during my high school career. However I went to a private school with a corporate work intention. I had to also spend time in public schools and let me say- there were some schools where I just felt sad looking at the other kids. In one I was proudly informed the student had actually made his english teacher run out crying.

You can't push a wall. Not with any success at least. If children are brought up to believe that reading books are for homosexuals and that sport is the man's pursuit then how can a teacher combat that? Now I love sport, well one sport anyway, but American education systems put ridiculous amounts of money into pushing sport down the pupil's throats.

I understand that some college football coaches get paid millions. That is completely unheard of in Britain. Here sport is an optional, after school activity. As well as basic P.E. lessons which are about getting fit and having fun rather than any serious attempt at being ranked above competing schools. Nobody gives a toss how well well or poorly their school, college or University does at any sport. There are exceptions, like the Oxbridge boat race.

Hell, even the kids who were good at sport and bad at education would prefer to bunk off P.E. lessons and after school matches so they could go and do their own thing.

In conclusion, I would think the avocation of a mediocre sporting talent over learning is a bigger concern for America than the Twilight series.

Or perhaps it has the same root cause?

Honestly I don't disagree with you it just seems rather tangential and inconsequential to the matter at hand. I'm sure there are bigger problems than the one we are currently writing about, I'm simply bringing up a new subject for debate and discussion and presenting my opinion on that subject.
If you wish to bring up a different thread which details the level of idiocy that goes into the American sports system, be my quest.

 

[Deleted]

Tween girls insert them self into the empty shell that is Bella and use the book as their dream material. I could make a poetry book about a poor guy who also happened to be hot fall in love with a princess who doesn't say anything more than 'guards take him out' and it will be a best seller. Because they imagine them self as the princess.

As for eragon, it was alright. I'm not a dragon fan but the story was too much like "we gotta save this thing because its the right thing to do and we will meet a lot of people and split up at one point and I'll have to use something I had for the whole book to get though the last part weeeeeee"

 

[Seras54]

Make love to me, right now.
I lol'd so hard I think I broke my lolometer

Unfortunately, due to time constraints, I am incapable of agreeing to your request.

A suitable replacement has been sent in my stead.

And yes ladies. He sparkles.​

And now i must ask you to stay away from me, theres only one male vampire i'm interested in

Protip: Spell his name backwards