'Butthurt', 'brown nosing', 'white knighting', rabble rabble rabble - Why the weak name calling?

[Parasondox]

Goooooooooooooooood damn evening everyone at the Escapist,

Where am I going now with this thread? Somewhere. It's about the journey taken, not the destination at the end.

If you can list some of the top phrases you hear when ever an internet "flame war" happens, you would normally here things like;

"Wow you sound so butt hurt right now, get over it"
"Well look at you brown nosing this YouTuber cause you like him/her"
"Why are you white knighting this person? They deserve to be called out and exposed"

There are more and yes, many may seem extreme but I am making a point. If you wish to add your own examples, go for it. Yes I know they have been said way before the internet but I am only talking about, in this case, just the internet for a few minutes. So what point am I trying to make here? This labeling of people we have whenever an inter discussion is happening and mostly from a flame war that gets started because feels the need to go extreme with their own point of view. Everyone has opinions, everyone has a right to their opinions, and everyone has the right to change their opinions whenever they feel fit to do so. However, why do we get comments like, "butthurt", "brown nosing", "white knighting" get thrown around and put on people that actually defends something? Weak tactic when it comes to an argument/discussion? The other person trying to get a cheap win by putting a label on someone?

Spoiler: Butt hurt

Butt hurt: Can't a person just disagree with a popular opinion without getting this saying thrown into their faces? Whenever something comes up, there will always be those that are against it and for it. Saying that someone is "butt hurt" because they didn't agree with the adaption of a book to movie form, don't hold a strong argument. If the person didn't like it and have a good reason why they didn't like it and wrote a detailed response to it, then it would be best to just listen to argument the agree to disagree on any points made. Oh at the flip side to that? The one who disagrees may then call out the person who may agree and then attack their personal taste and saying "well if you like this, then you don't know what the true meaning of it is". Sad but it happens, which leads me on to my next point.

Spoiler: Brown nosing

Browning nosing: "Like Zack Snyder as a director and I like Man of Steel. I will watch MoS2 and judge for myself because I know Snyder can pull off some great visuals in his directing". You see this is just an opinion, you can agree with it, you can disagree with it or you can be in the middle. Simple right? Well to a small some they may call this "brown nosing". Why? No, seriously why? If a person is defending the work of a director/producer/artist or anyone in the media, why do some people, who disagrees with the comment, think it's "brown nosing"? As mentioned before, the line, "Well if you like this or think that, then you don't really understand the true meaning of the story and character", will pop up or just fuel the whole name calling/label situation in the debate. Some people have things they like that you don't like. It doesn't mean a war must start from it. It's part of life. Even if someone even tries to defend the person, they get attacked too, even if it all seems one sided. Which leads me on to my last point.

Spoiler: White Knighting

White knighting: "How dare you defend this person when everything they say or do is wrong wrong wrong rabble rabble rabble". Firstly, lets calm down now. This does not have to get messy. As many of us know last year a person named... you know what, to avoid another war, I will just say "A". So, "A", said something and did somethings that made a certain community look and sound like they were something their not. "A", may have brought up some interesting points but executed it the wrong way. Many disagreed with her view point and many agreed. Debate still goes on, even today. But things got a bit too nasty and distaste when a small minority within a community, decided to go one step over the line. Getting a bit too person. So personal that it led to comments from advocating a certain hideous act should be brought upon her, to her being 6 feet under. It really painted a bad picture. So when other YouTubers (mostly gamers) and others would defend her by saying "Those who think it's right to send "A" abusive messages should stop because it's cruel, unneeded and the harassment went too far and out of line", this vocal minority would heckle anyone trying to stop them and then brand them as "white knighting" her and the situation, making it seem like defending a person from cruel attacks is stupid and no one can stop them. If you disagree with "A" then feel free to disagree BUT do not cross the line because you yourself will look like the bad person and make your argument and disagreement pointless.

TL;DR (don't worry I put spoilers): Where did all this labeling and phrasing come from? Why does it happen and are you, yourself reading this, sick and tired of hearing it so often in arguments when ever some fails to carry on the discussion by saying "Ahh, you are just butt hurt"? Have there been times where you have been labelled one of these things and thought it was just uncalled for?

Share your thoughts, comment below and let's have a nice chat. Several points I have made are opinions and observations and not facts. They can easily be disputed and argued against and the main point of this thread is to have a simple discussion about said topic. Thank you for reading

 

[senordesol]

You act as if name calling and reductive reasoning was only invented for the internet. Sorry to tell you, but ever since we discovered we could disagree without bashing an opponents head in with a rock, stuff like this has occurred.

However, some introspection might be warranted if you are called certain things:

Butt Hurt: You are taking the opposing argument too personally, usually in a circumstance where personal investment in the item at hand is not warranted.

Brown Nosing: You refuse to acknowledge the faults in a certain work or person. And are espousing blanket support for something that should be regarded a little more critically.

White Knighting : You are defending something that should either be allowed to speak for itself or can't be defended on its own. By arguing so emphatically for something you have no apparent stake in, it can derail an argument (as someone might have been waiting for a response from the source). Another work for it is a 'buttinsky' (i.e.: someone who injects themselves into conversations that don't concern them).

 

[dyre]

I think the insults "brown-nosing" and "white-knighting" existed before the internet, though "butt hurt" might be new. They are likely overused in silly arguments on the internet because it's difficult to use rational debate to resolve silly arguments on the internet. "Logic"-based arguments on the validity of statements like "Zac Snyder is a good director," "CoD is evil for gaming" and "Mudkips actually suck" tend to go nowhere, which inevitably leads to the discussion degenerating into name calling. It's not like you can prove your point with superior research or indisputable reason...the internet is full of arguments on things that are really just a matter of opinion.

The remedy? Don't get involved in this petty bickering!

 

[Parasondox]

You act as if name calling and reductive reasoning was only invented for the internet. Sorry to tell you, but ever since we discovered we could disagree without bashing an opponents head in with a rock, stuff like this has occurred.

However, some introspection might be warranted if you are called certain things:

Butt Hurt: You are taking the opposing argument too personally, usually in a circumstance where personal investment in the item at hand is not warranted.

Brown Nosing: You refuse to acknowledge the faults in a certain work or person. And are espousing blanket support for something that should be regarded a little more critically.

White Knighting : You are defending something that should either be allowed to speak for itself or can't be defended on its own. By arguing so emphatically for something you have no apparent stake in, it can derail an argument (as someone might have been waiting for a response from the source). Another work for it is a 'buttinsky' (i.e.: someone who injects themselves into conversations that don't concern them).

I never said or acted as if it was invented on the internet. I know it's been happening for generations and generations in many different forms. I didn't know I had to point that out really but thank you for your view.

I do love to see the flip side or other side of the argument and the points you made are valid. It may all link too people getting a bit too personal when it comes to a debate. There are other sides to the butt hurt, brown nosing and white knighting debuting which is general my fault for not bring up because I wanted to focus on the most talked about side that seems to be focused on a lot.

 

[Kenbo Slice]

I have a friend who gets butt-hurt over literally everything. He dies once in League of Legends, gets butt hurt and quits. I tell him I'm not able to hang out, he gets butt hurt and bitches non-stop. He's even butt-hurt because Marvel makes better movies than DC does. While I'm a fan of both companies, Marvel just makes better films. All he does is ***** about how he's sick of Marvel doing everything right.

 

[Gaius Livius]

I find that people using "Noob" as an insult is laughable. It says a lot about the snobby, elitist culture you get in some areas of gaming. Particularly in multiplayer games, the worst probably being MMO's. I couldn't take offense to it even if I tried. It's just someone calling you a new player who isn't very good because of their lack of experience.

 

[Cerebrawl]

I'm reminded of the one used by almost every MMO griefer in existance(at least a few years back, been a while since I bothered with a PVP enabled PVP/PVE mix MMO): Carebear.

 

[JimB]

When it's used to denigrate people for supporting other people, especially when it's used to denigrate people for supporting women (with the implication that this support is only motivated by an ulterior motive for sexual favor) then it's a pretty scummy thing to say.

No one fears theft like a thief. Or in this case, no one perceives as much desperate, lonely pussy-sniffing as a desperate, lonely pussy-sniffer. The motivations we assign to strangers say way more about ourselves than the people we don't even know.

 

[Ryan Hughes]

I do not mind the use of these particular phrases in general, not for the reason you might think. These phrases do not make a point about their topic, but they do reveal much about the person that uses them. Personally, if someone start talking in these throw-away, largely meaningless phrases -instead of using clear reasoning to explain their opinion- then I usually just ignore what they have to say, because odds are high that they have nothing intelligent to contribute to any conversation.

In the words of Terry Pratchett: "Cliches become cliched because they are the hammers and screwdrivers in the toolbox of communication." As much as I love Pratchett, I respectfully disagree with this; the types of phrases you gave are nothing but strings of empty signifiers, devoid of real meaning, and allowing people to insert their own -often insipid- meanings into them. They cannot communicate any real, substantial idea or point.

 

[BreakfastMan]

These shit comes from people who don't care enough to actually make any decent arguments. They just hope insulting the other person will make it seem like they win. White Knighting seriously pisses me off. It is exclusively used to attack people who actually have empathy, and attacking people for being a decent human being is something I cannot stand.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

Fairly recently I was thinking about how I think this is one of the biggest sources of anger in arguments on the internet. Not just stuff like this, but labeleling people in general. I can't think of anything being lost if people just stopped using labels and focused on what was being said, as opposed to what they've decided it says about the nature of the person saying them. It's just a really easy way to get people annoyed. Even if it's true, what is achieved by it? If you can't think of a way to criticize what they're saying, and can only accuse them of saying it because they're an then you should just step out of the argument. Even if you do have a criticism on what they're saying, the second you start attacking their character you've probably killed your chance of them listening to it.

List of other commonly used labels: Racist, sexist, bigot, feminazi, radical feminist, entitled, social justice warrior, etc...

 

[BeeGeenie]

Why labeling? Because it is in our nature to attempt to organize and classify our world. We've been doing it since forever, and always will.

Yes, it can lead to various -isms and name-calling, but again, human nature. Name-calling helps to create an Us/Them dynamic, which helps one subconsciously justify attacking another person (verbally, over the internet, or face to face).

And in the long run, accusing someone of "white-knighting" or "brown-nosing" is certainly less hurtful than more traditional forms of demonization/dehumanization of a potential enemy.

So yeah, I'd call it an improvement over good old fashioned hate-speech.

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

Spoiler: Butt hurt

Butt hurt: Can't a person just disagree with a popular opinion without getting this saying thrown into their faces? Whenever something comes up, there will always be those that are against it and for it. Saying that someone is "butt hurt" because they didn't agree with the adaption of a book to movie form, don't hold a strong argument. If the person didn't like it and have a good reason why they didn't like it and wrote a detailed response to it, then it would be best to just listen to argument the agree to disagree on any points made. Oh at the flip side to that? The one who disagrees may then call out the person who may agree and then attack their personal taste and saying "well if you like this, then you don't know what the true meaning of it is". Sad but it happens, which leads me on to my next point.

Simply put, anger is generally a sign of weakness. This applies tenfold to discussions on the internet that are, in the grand scheme, meaningless.

Thus, if a person appears to be angered and/or upset, it's appropriate to call them out on said weakness. Hence the term "butthurt"

Of course, in many cases the person didn't show any sign of anger at all and was still called butthurt. In these instances, the attacker is probably attempting to draw out the anger to expose weaknesses. Alternatively, they're just a jackass who lost the argument.

[quote/]

Spoiler: Brown nosing

Browning nosing: "Like Zack Snyder as a director and I like Man of Steel. I will watch MoS2 and judge for myself because I know Snyder can pull off some great visuals in his directing". You see this is just an opinion, you can agree with it, you can disagree with it or you can be in the middle. Simple right? Well to a small some they may call this "brown nosing". Why? No, seriously why? If a person is defending the work of a director/producer/artist or anyone in the media, why do some people, who disagrees with the comment, think it's "brown noising"? As mentioned before, the line, "Well if you like this or think that, then you don't really understand the true meaning of the story and character", will pop up or just fuel the whole name calling/label situation in the debate. Some people have things they like that you don't like. It doesn't mean a war must start from it. It's part of life. Even if someone even tries to defend the person, they get attacked too, even if it all seems one sided. Which leads me on to my last point.

[/quote]
I really don't know what this one has to do with the internet. People have called each other brown nose since the dawn of noses and colors. It's an extremely common phrase that just means they person using the term felt the other person was being overly kind without a decent reason.

[quote/]

Spoiler: White Knighting

White knighting: "How dare you defend this person when everything they say or do is wrong wrong wrong rabble rabble rabble". Firstly, lets calm down now. This does not have to get messy. As many of us know last year a person named... you know what, to avoid another war, I will just say "A". So, "A", said something and did somethings that made a certain community look and sound like they were something their not. "A", may have brought up some interesting points but executed it the wrong way. Many disagreed with her view point and many agreed. Debate still goes on, even today. But things got a bit too nasty and distaste when a small minority within a community, decided to go one step over the line. Getting a bit too person. So personal that it led to comments from advocating a certain hideous act should be brought upon her, to her being 6 feet under. It really painted a bad picture. So when other YouTubers (mostly gamers) and others would defend her by saying "Those who think it's right to send "A" abusive messages should stop because it's cruel, unneeded and the harassment went too far and out of line", this vocal minority would heckle anyone trying to stop them and then brand them as "white knighting" her and the situation, making it seem like defending a person from cruel attacks is stupid and no one can stop them. If you disagree with "A" then feel free to disagree BUT do not cross the line because you yourself will look like the bad person and make your argument and disagreement pointless.

[/quote]
This is partially similar to what Yahtzee talked about in his viewer mail episode. The people and things being defended aren't in any danger from the attackers so the defense is meaningless.
Alternatively, it has to do with people defending others purely for the purpose of defending them and feeling morally superior to the attackers.
The other reason simply has to do with the ruination of fun. Like it or not, there are a lot of people on the internet that get enjoyment out of attacking people. The defenders are taking away from that enjoyment.

To get back to your original questions...

Where does it come from and why does it happen? Human nature. People come up with labels and words. If those labels and words are effective, they are reused until they become part of the standard vocabulary. Different words and labels are created for different areas of society based on need and the internet is no exception.

Am I tired of it? God no!
As far as I'm concerned, the extreme negativity and criticism of the internet makes it better, not worse. When every weak emotion and every slightly poor argument is called out by entire crowds of people, it forces us to work harder to be intelligent and reasoned.
Paradoxically, the inane jackassery breads smarter arguing.

Furthermore, it fosters the growth of a thicker skin in the inhabitants, allowing for better discussion about controversial issues and more honest expression of opinion.

A certain level of moderation is helpful, but generally speaking, I adore the critical culture of the internet.

 

[Kyrian007]

I love earning those labels in an internet argument... they mean I won. Each of those terms are slung around by the loser, someone who cannot back up their argument point for point with you and resorts to what is basically just grade school name-calling as opposed to making an argument of their own.

Well, 99% of the time. There are always exceptions. Every once in a while someone who does have a decent argument just "lazies" out an accusation without backing up their claim. They get called out on it and they can actually back up their position (though not the labeling, there's no excuse for being too lazy to form a proper argument.) But that very rarely happens. Most of the time its "your really whitnighting _______? Really?" And their side of the argument consists of no better argument than that. Getting called a white knight is an almost automatic sign your "opponent" is arguing from a position of weakness (either on the wrong side, or just not smart enough to win the argument.)

"Brown nosing" is similar, but "butthurt" is slightly different. That isn't usually the sign of an incomplete rebuttal... it actually is just juvenile name calling. I generally internally give a pre-pubescent squeaky voice to anyone who slings that around. They're the ones on teamspeak who screech profanity to try and hide the obvious fact that they're about 10 years old.

BTW, don't bother going through my post history... I'm not the best orator and freely admit I've been bested several times. And yes I'm not above sinking to the level of an attacker, I do that frequently and just for that tiny bit of satisfaction you get for going for the cheap shot. The fact that I'm not the best example of of my own point does not really invalidate it though, does it?

 

[shootthebandit]

Brown nosing is the only one ive heard but its been used for years. Its basically soneone who tries to kiss the managers/teachers arse in order to make themself look good (usually to get a promotion). If you work in a unionised manual job chances are people will make your life hell if you are a brown nose. In offices I dont know but it seems a bit more common

 

[Parasondox]

These terms come from 4Chan, and are therefore the cawing the juvenile asshats. The kind of people who think there's nothing worth getting offended about on the internet whatsoever (bullshit) and anyone who does get offended is just too sensitive, or trying to get laid, or whatever the pathetic excuse of the day is slung around by the kind of people who have the poor social skills to be hanging around 4Chan or Reddit being assholes to people all fucking day.

I've never been on or even take notice of things like 4chan and Reddit. Are they really that bad cause it sounds like they are filled with people that either has too much time on their hands or people who are looking to build up their ego by getting cheap wins and insults that are pretty much meaningless. Or and I guess they over use the terms "free speech/freedom of speech" too many times to justify anything they say even if it's vile and disgusting.

I'm reminded of the one used by almost every MMO griefer in existance(at least a few years back, been a while since I bothered with a PVP enabled PVP/PVE mix MMO): Carebear.

What does "Carebear" mean when they use it? I know it's a childrens toy but... what? Is it me or are they running out of insults?

I find that people using "Noob" as an insult is laughable. It says a lot about the snobby, elitist culture you get in some areas of gaming. Particularly in multiplayer games, the worst probably being MMO's. I couldn't take offense to it even if I tried. It's just someone calling you a new player who isn't very good because of their lack of experience.

Yeah I don't get why that term is even used when those who are "experienced" started off at the same exact level aswel. I hear it a lot with several Youtube Gamers and it just seems childish. Mind you, most of the time the term "noob", is mostly used when playing FPS games and they don't have the best reputation at the moment.