Call of Duty is a casual game.

[Baneat]

non-question-begging

Can you explain what begging the question actually is? It's socratic, I think, but it makes no sense to most people.

 

[zehydra]

non-question-begging

Can you explain what begging the question actually is? It's socratic, I think, but it makes no sense to most people.

I'd explain, but these guys are better at it than I

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

 

[LAN MAC]

Yeah, you heard me. The new CoDs (Mw2-present CoDs) are all marketed to the most profitable crowd- casual gamers who don't game very often. But, instead of the casual gamers you imgaine, such as your grandmother, I'm talking about weekly gamers. The guys who don'tplay games that much, maybe once or twices (thrice?) times a week. They don't really see any problemes with the multiplayer because they don't play the game enough to be affected by them.
Look at the campaigns, they almost certainly make up fantastic set peices and then the story. Because that attracts weekly gamers.
Because, you know what? The quality of the games, with the budget the studios have, are just shit after CoD 4. If you want to know the reasons why, I'll tell you, but this isn't a rant. I'm just saying who the new CoD games are being marketed to.

You say, "casual" with a tone of disgust and off-handed pseudo-prejudice don't you?

 

[weker]

Yeah, you heard me. The new CoDs (Mw2-present CoDs) are all marketed to the most profitable crowd- casual gamers who don't game very often. But, instead of the casual gamers you imgaine, such as your grandmother, I'm talking about weekly gamers. The guys who don'tplay games that much, maybe once or twices (thrice?) times a week. They don't really see any problemes with the multiplayer because they don't play the game enough to be affected by them.
Look at the campaigns, they almost certainly make up fantastic set peices and then the story. Because that attracts weekly gamers.
Because, you know what? The quality of the games, with the budget the studios have, are just shit after CoD 4. If you want to know the reasons why, I'll tell you, but this isn't a rant. I'm just saying who the new CoD games are being marketed to.

The game I cannot agree more is targeted at that audience, however the game also possessive such addictive qualities that the hardcore fall for it as well.

 

[Alexnader]

non-question-begging

Can you explain what begging the question actually is? It's socratic, I think, but it makes no sense to most people.

Doesn't begging the question mean to avoid it?

Anyway just a quick side-note. The "weekly player" nonsense should stop. Gamers playing farmville or some other casual game can put just as much time into their games as hardcore gamers put into titles like Battlefield or ARMA or anything like that. We've all heard the stories about kids dying because their parents were too busy playing farmville to feed/check on them.

What makes a casual game is how intuitive and easy to learn it is and also its reward structure, aesthetics an whatnot. I'd argue that CoD isn't a casual game but it does have casual elements.

 

[Kahunaburger]

And marketing games to casual players is bad why? Super Smash Brothers and Halo are also marketed to a casual audience while having hardcore players. I think it's actually a mark of good design* that the games can appeal to a wide audience.

*CoD has major design flaws you don't see in stuff like Halo, but that's another topic.

 

[Baneat]

non-question-begging

Can you explain what begging the question actually is? It's socratic, I think, but it makes no sense to most people.

Doesn't begging the question mean to avoid it?

Anyway just a quick side-note. The "weekly player" nonsense should stop. Gamers playing farmville or some other casual game can put just as much time into their games as hardcore gamers put into titles like Battlefield or ARMA or anything like that. We've all heard the stories about kids dying because their parents were too busy playing farmville to feed/check on them.

What makes a casual game is how intuitive and easy to learn it is and also its reward structure, aesthetics an whatnot. I'd argue that CoD isn't a casual game but it does have casual elements.

Nope, what I've read is that it's a little like stating the obvious, but the premises implicitly have the conclusion in there already, or the conclusion is a weaker version of the premise.

Looks like it would be misused more often than Straw Man fallacies (People tend to think of those as personal attacks) - simply because it's so confusing.

 

[Gladiateher]

Yeah CoD is a casual game. All games are casual unless your a professional gamer than it's a leisure time activity and can hardly be considered a formal occasion.

 

[Sovvolf]

No, it isn't. It has a great story, fast placed gameplay, and a much better online and coop system than most other games have. It also is pretty violent and is not easy to control for someone who has never played a video game before. It is a lot more complex and different than a casual game.

If this is causal, whats hardcore?

Hardcore is whatever game random internet poster no.116 likes, while casual is whatever game RIP no.116 doesn't like. If you catch the meaning, just tags given by people, pretentious internet posters who like to think they are better than the rest for playing their games. Theres probably a real meaning behind the terms but what ever meaning they actually hold is more than often lost by people just using the labels as insults and praise.

Hate both tags. As for COD, its a game, you play it and depending on your tastes, enjoy it or hate it. If you hate it then by all means stop playing.

 

[Alexnader]

non-question-begging

Can you explain what begging the question actually is? It's socratic, I think, but it makes no sense to most people.

Doesn't begging the question mean to avoid it?

Anyway just a quick side-note. The "weekly player" nonsense should stop. Gamers playing farmville or some other casual game can put just as much time into their games as hardcore gamers put into titles like Battlefield or ARMA or anything like that. We've all heard the stories about kids dying because their parents were too busy playing farmville to feed/check on them.

What makes a casual game is how intuitive and easy to learn it is and also its reward structure, aesthetics an whatnot. I'd argue that CoD isn't a casual game but it does have casual elements.

Nope, what I've read is that it's a little like stating the obvious, but the premises implicitly have the conclusion in there already, or the conclusion is a weaker version of the premise.

Looks like it would be misused more often than Straw Man fallacies (People tend to think of those as personal attacks) - simply because it's so confusing.

Eh, I was close enough. Far be it for me to cite wikipedia as the be and end all of such questions it does say to beg the question is a type of ligical fallacy "in which the proposition to be proven is assumed implicitly or explicitly in the premise" which to me at least involves avoiding the main question. i.e. the proof for the proposition.

I dislike these terms anyway since their existence inevitably means they wind up being cited in arguments in place of actually presenting your own argument. I feel they were more intended to be guidelines for what to avoid doing in a debate but their purpose is usually twisted into childish naysaying like "Hah, that's strawman right there. Boom. Lawyered". It's just like when people use Godwin's law incorrectly.


ANYWAY, Call of Duty. Not casual. Some casual elements like the unlock system, ranks, its pick up and play nature and its deliberate appeal to mass audiences of gun porn obsessed rednecks. Of course these elements are in most games out there and they serve good purposes so it's not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[James Raynor]

We first need to define what 'Casual Game' even means before we can apply it to anything.

 

[Savagezion]

Threads like this are stupid as there are no "hardcore" or "casual" games. Any game, including farmville, can be played in a hardcore manner. I know the drive behind the inspiration of this post but it is really a moot point from all angles. CoD titles aren't even casual games in that sense as they require skill to get better and such. Try sticking to the contracts that only provide 1000+ XP. Try reaching 10th level prestige without gaining skill from multiple matches.

I know people like to rag on CoD fans as douchebag gamer "wannabe's" but CoD got famous off the backs of the so called "true gamers" and I didn't even like CoD back then when I was a "true gamer"; Ghost Recon and Rainbow Six were better IMO. I wasn't even interested in CoD before 4 as, contrary to popular belief, I have always thought World War 2 video games were dull and uninteresting in spite of the fact that I think the history behind it IS interesting. CoD 4 took off and gamers everywhere shit their pants over it and it created a ripple in pop culture large enough to get non-gamers to check it out. Like WoW did but for FPS's. It started showing up in television shows, movies, and songs. Now it is not popular because it is some iconic standard of FPS's but because it is an icon for gaming. It's like the dumb-asses who say Babe Ruth is the greatest baseball player of all time. Some people just don't "get it".

TL;DR - haters gonna hate.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

It has... a much better online and coop system than most other games have.

If this is causal, whats hardcore?

COD online is extremely lacking in features. The damn game doesn't even actual clan support, you just put any 4 characters before you name and that's it; that's not clan support. The game is all matchmaking, there's no game lobbies or rooms. There's private rooms but only people you invite can join, which is very limiting. COD has no way to determine how good each player is so matches are unbalanced. Plus, if you join a party with friends and you're good players, then you will be going up against randoms and winning easily the whole time since your party is always on the same team. COD has no dedicated servers, and there's no option to let a player be a dedicated host so every single match is literally unfair due to host advantage.

And, I haven't even went into how simplified, devolved, and unbalanced COD's gameplay is; there's health regen, moving spawns, no leaning, 1 button grenade tossing, etc.

Metal Gear Online, Warhawk, ArmA 2, and MAG are all hardcore online games.

 

[loodmoney]

non-question-begging

Can you explain what begging the question actually is? It's socratic, I think, but it makes no sense to most people.

Doesn't begging the question mean to avoid it?

Anyway just a quick side-note. The "weekly player" nonsense should stop. Gamers playing farmville or some other casual game can put just as much time into their games as hardcore gamers put into titles like Battlefield or ARMA or anything like that. We've all heard the stories about kids dying because their parents were too busy playing farmville to feed/check on them.

What makes a casual game is how intuitive and easy to learn it is and also its reward structure, aesthetics an whatnot. I'd argue that CoD isn't a casual game but it does have casual elements.

Nope, what I've read is that it's a little like stating the obvious, but the premises implicitly have the conclusion in there already, or the conclusion is a weaker version of the premise.

Looks like it would be misused more often than Straw Man fallacies (People tend to think of those as personal attacks) - simply because it's so confusing.

Eh, I was close enough. Far be it for me to cite wikipedia as the be and end all of such questions it does say to beg the question is a type of ligical fallacy "in which the proposition to be proven is assumed implicitly or explicitly in the premise" which to me at least involves avoiding the main question. i.e. the proof for the proposition.

I dislike these terms anyway since their existence inevitably means they wind up being cited in arguments in place of actually presenting your own argument. I feel they were more intended to be guidelines for what to avoid doing in a debate but their purpose is usually twisted into childish naysaying like "Hah, that's strawman right there. Boom. Lawyered". It's just like when people use Godwin's law incorrectly.


ANYWAY, Call of Duty. Not casual. Some casual elements like the unlock system, ranks, its pick up and play nature and its deliberate appeal to mass audiences of gun porn obsessed rednecks. Of course these elements are in most games out there and they serve good purposes so it's not necessarily a bad thing.

Yeah, I should have been clearer with the "question-begging" thing. Properly speaking, it is where the premises have the conclusion already in them, but here... it's an iffy term, I'll admit.

Basically, what the OP does is say that Call of Duty is casual--but instead of using "casual" in its normal sense (PopCap games &c.), he changes the meaning by broadening the term to include, well, pretty much anything (unless someone can name a game that requires playing more than three times a week). So the OP's argument is not:
"Call of Duty games are closer to Bejewelled than they are [insert "hardcore" game here]"
as the title of the thread would imply, but:
"Call of Duty games are games"
or, at best:
"Call of Duty games are games with a large market appeal"
--these last two statements being totally uninteresting and unilluminating. So I guess you could say that it is question-begging because it changes the meaning of "casual" in such a way as to make it apply to Call of Duty specifically--and a whole lot more besides.

 

[Sovvolf]

"Call of Duty games are games with a large market appeal"
--these last two statements being totally uninteresting and unilluminating. So I guess you could say that it is question-begging because it changes the meaning of "casual" in such a way as to make it apply to Call of Duty specifically--and a whole lot more besides.

So by that definition, any popular game is a casual game, hardcore games are the ones that sold poorly and that makes them better. That kind of pretentious thinking is why I almost hate being called a gamer, mainly because thats a near universal thought for most internet going gamers.

That being said, the whole Popularity = shit argument isn't exclusive to games so I guess I shouldn't give fellow gamers too much of a hard time.

This isn't aimed at you btw. Just commenting on the logic you pointed out.

 

[LordLundar]

Hardcore is whatever game random internet poster no.116 likes, while casual is whatever game RIP no.116 doesn't like. If you catch the meaning, just tags given by people, pretentious internet posters who like to think they are better than the rest for playing their games. Theres probably a real meaning behind the terms but what ever meaning they actually hold is more than often lost by people just using the labels as insults and praise.

Hate both tags. As for COD, its a game, you play it and depending on your tastes, enjoy it or hate it. If you hate it then by all means stop playing.

Exactly. "Casual" and "hardcore" have no real meaning because it fluctuates from person to person, and is used for nothing more than to start another of the 3 million plus arguments that are out there that also serve no purpose.