Can bethesda make fallout 3 better than oblivion?

[zari]

Kind of like straightening out a slinky don't you think? i mean all games are games when it comes down to it. but you're getting upset at the game because you chose to unravel the mechanics and reveal the game underneath it all?

You've missed my point here. I wasn't saying that it was bad that people abused the mechanic, I was saying it was the mechanic itself which was the problem. One of the compelling things about good role-driven games is how the way your character is built guides (or at least informs) your gaming choices. With this system however it just encourages your character to turn into a do-everything super hero (whether it does it by abusing the mechanic as I described, or just turning into it through playing the game). While I suppose the idea is appealing at a personal level, I don't feel it contributes to engaging gaming.

Sammyfreak - I have a blank piece of paper here which I think you'll be very interested in PM me to set a price!

[Edit: slight fixuppage for gooder english!]

 

[runtheplacered]

Because the game just was an empty shell my imagination could run wild

That's what I wanted going into Oblivion. Unfortunately the game mechanics pulled me out of it by slapping me in the face with annoyance. I'm glad you enjoyed it and just know that I really do wish I could get what you got out of it. Perhaps with Fallout, I just might.

 

[Doctor Panda]

I'm another poor person who absolutely loved the fallout series (i breifly glance to the right and see the fallout 2 game disk STILL SITTING ON MY DESK AFTER ALL THESE YEARS) but really never could get into morrowind or oblivion. I have to say, if you read the FAQ and other comments by bethesda you certainly get the feeling they're doing their best. I do hope it will work out.

The two main things that annoyed me about morrowind and oblivion were the character leveling up system and the dialogue style. And it looks like there's every chance they'll be done away with (huzzah!). So I have hope.

One thing that they'll need to really deal with before it can rival fallout is level and character design. It didn't matter that they only had like, 8 character models and about as many backdrop textures - many of the towns and characters in fallout were so distinct and individual that most players still remember them clearly a decade on. I can't pretend all of them were winners - but come on, New Reno! Vault City! Now Bethesda has apparently decided that they're going to focus on having fewer, but more interesting and individual characters. And I damn well hope they take that seriously.

 

[Airhead]

While most of your argument is valid, The Shivering Isles had main character voice actors for just that person like the Old Librarian, Jyggalag, even the assistant Haskill, and Sheagorath definatly had his own voice actor! No one else in the entire game has an old scottish accent like his

True for Haskill, he had a voice perfectly fit for the character, but Sheogorath was definitely voiced by the guy that did all those dozens of generic characters like guards etc. He just put on a Scottish accent but you can still easily tell it`s him. I think that`s one sign of a talented voiceover actor - creating completely separate personalities just by changing your voice in a natural way. That`s why I mentioned John DiMaggio - I would have never believed Wakka from Final Fantasy X, Smiling Jack from Bloodlines and Gonza from Princess Mononoke were all voiced by the same guy if I hadn`t read it on Wikipedia.

 

[vede]

The two main things that annoyed me about morrowind and oblivion were the character leveling up system and the dialogue style. And it looks like there's every chance they'll be done away with (huzzah!). So I have hope.

What's wrong with the leveling system in Morrowind and Oblivion?

Do you mean that practicing your skills so they can gradually become better is better than killing monsters so you can become better at possibly completely irrelevant skills?

I was able to convince the bandit leader to release the prisoner because I have killed, like, an assload of monsters.

Opposed to:

I was able to convince the bandit leader to release the prisoner because I have practiced my speech skills in town a lot.

I have killed many monsters in Fallout not because I had to, but because ruthlessly slaughtering random monsters helps you get better in all areas. Power should not be measured by how many creatures you kill, it should be measured on how much you practice in certain areas. I honestly hope that the leveling system from the ES games is somehow (even if just slightly) incorporated into Fallout 3.

 

[PurpleRain]

Why is everyone saying Oblivion sucks it was a great game. Good sales High scores (94 metacritic) don't see what the problem with it is.

The truth. (It hurts)

To add on:

Level system:
Fallout: Most of the time in the watseland, you are outnumbered, outgunned, and most certainly left for dead.
Oblivion: It's cool. The enemies level up with you.

Character creation:
Fallout: The way you set up your character is the way it plays out. You want a geeky scientist good with explosives and speech, then you'll probably die in a fight unless you can take your way out of it.
Oblivion: You can make how your characters looks. Don't worry about the rest, you can basically do everything.

Dialoge:
Fallout: You can persade a person that big rats have been eating his carvans.
Oblivion: Pie.

Combat:
Fallout: You can throw rocks at children's nuts.
Oblivion: You have about 3 different combat moves aside from magic.

NPC's:
Fallout: Don't like 'em. Blast them one.
Oblivion: Knock them out. There is no way to kill them at all.

Enemies:
Fallout: Deathclaws, mutants, radscorpions, mantis, two-head brahmin, giant talking rats, oh my!
Oblivion: Trolls and minitors are cool but... come on, Deathclaws!

I could go on with reasons why Fallout is better then Oblivion. Oblvion to me was just so flat and lifeless. You had to follow the rules otherwise the game didn't work. I went on a massive killing spree and the game didn't know how to handle it. Whereas in fallout, most cities of the wasteland will hate you (and some like you more).

 

[Airhead]

I was able to convince the bandit leader to release the prisoner because I have killed, like, an assload of monsters.

Opposed to:

I was able to convince the bandit leader to release the prisoner because I have practiced my speech skills in town a lot.

I think both systems have their pros and cons. The first might lead to excessive monster killing like you mentioned and lets you up skills you didn`t even use, but then it lets you define your character in a quick and simple way, if an abstract one.

Leveling system from Elder Scrolls on the other hand might be more realistic, but realism can be a pain sometimes. To up the speech skill you have to persuade random people you don`t need to persuade because there aren`t many meaningful opportunities to use it otherwise (at least in Oblivion). And I remember jumping up and down all the time in Morrowind, because I wanted to upgrade my character`s speed (I think that`s how it worked, right?). I think choosing one leveling system over another is a matter of taste, but in this particular case I would have prefered to just kill some monsters or do some job and up the speed with some abstract points. More interesting this way.

And I wouldn`t be the hopeless Vampire: the Masquerade - Bloodlines fanboy I am if I didn`t mention its leveling system. You got points to spend freely, but only for finishing quests, not for slaying anything. It stopped the player from killing stuff when it wasn`t relevant.

 

[Airhead]

Fallout: You can throw rocks at children's nuts.

I know you can get marked as a "Child Killer" in Fallout, but that`s more like "Child Molester" .

Dialoge:
Fallout: You can persade a person that big rats have been eating his carvans.
Oblivion: Pie.

They fix this single difference and I`m happy.

 

[zari]

And I wouldn`t be the hopeless Vampire: the Masquerade - Bloodlines fanboy I am if I didn`t mention its leveling system. You got points to spend freely, but only for finishing quests, not for slaying anything. It stopped the player from killing stuff when it wasn`t relevant.

You know, it's been that long since Bloodlines mysteriously stopped working on my system I'd forgotten all about it. I always did like the levelling system in Vampire. It rewards you for doing important stuff, not tediously grinding, one way or another.

That would make a whole slew of games better (maybe shorter, but only by cutting out mindless repetition).

 

[SphericalGimp]

I have a friend who is quite a big Bethesda fan and thinks fallout 3 will be good because Bethesda are going to be behind it.

Myself, I've enjoyed the fallout games far more than any Bethesda game and that's where the rub lies; I think they don't have the capacity to do anything other than "Bethesda doing fallout".

I'll try the game for sure, but to be honest I think Fallout like I know it is never going to happen again.

 

[bustns]

the original fallouts i love dearly and still play about once a year. i enjoyed oblivion a lot despite its flaws. i just hope that they can make fallout out 3 as good as the orginal fallouts

 

[Doctor Panda]

I have killed many monsters in Fallout not because I had to, but because ruthlessly slaughtering random monsters helps you get better in all areas. Power should not be measured by how many creatures you kill, it should be measured on how much you practice in certain areas. I honestly hope that the leveling system from the ES games is somehow (even if just slightly) incorporated into Fallout 3.

Oh, i don't mind a skill-training based system *in principle*, I just didn't like its execution in morrowind - at all. It eventually created a grinding system that was even worse than the monster killing that preceeded it (not that mass murder was particularly necessary in fallout given the huge number of quests available with multiple ways to complete them). I feel this was compounded by the way that stats were linked to the skills you increased. If you wanted to plan out a character, you needed to do some *absurd* things - and i find making a solid, interesting character build part of the fun of replaying RPGs. I know a lot of people had trouble with the fact that you needed to be very careful if you wanted to maximise your potential stats and levels, because of the way you could accidentally gain skills - not something i thought was particularly necessary in morrowind, but hey, it'd be nice for it to be an option.

Finally, i miss perks. Cute little customisations that add some flavour but without making the system too complex.