Can high difficulty and atmosphere fit together?

[Serving UpSmiles]

Immersion and Atmosphere? pah If I want to be immersed into something I'll read a book or watch a film, something that leads me through the experience instead of telling me the backstory.

Now the feeling of Acomplishment and Empowerment? That's something unique to gaming, We gamers should be focused on that instead of trying to copy film/litterture and I'm sure no one here want's Heavy Rain all the time.

Also fun, i like fun...

 

[Vegosiux]

Now the feeling of Acomplishment and Empowerment? That's something unique to gaming, We gamers should be focused on that instead of trying to copy film/litterture and I'm sure no one here want's Heavy Rain all the time.

...wait, what?

Ever heard about this thing called "Life"? Plenty of accomplishment and empowerment to be had there as well, they're not nearly "unique to gaming". Hell, even other leisure activities have plenty of it to offer. Ever completed a 5000 piece jigsaw puzzle that consisted of mostly slightly different shades of blue?

And please, I shall ask politely, but only once, do not presume to tell me what I, as a gamer, should focus on. Because that's rude.

 

[Vegosiux]

[
I don't get this recent "I needs mai immershun" trend.

And therefore you have to go "SHUT. UP." and start to flaunt a greater than thou complex?

Maybe you should heed your own advice:

Being cynical doesn't make you cool, guys. Most of the times it makes you ignorant.

Not that being cynical ever made anyone ignorant. Sometimes it's the other way around, but you can be perfectly cynical without being ignorant. And without a desire to look cool. Being sick of people is one way to become a cynic.

 

[LordFisheh]

I think sometimes death doesn't detract at all. The problem is that the times it does detract from immersion are the times when it's most likely. Climactic events, boss battles, end runs, and so on all tend to be hard. But the moment I see the unexpected twist, feel betrayal, ready myself for the final confrontation and then die and reload the sense of part of epic events just goes.

For some reason I found it especially jarring in the Witcher 2, while fighting the kayran (the tentacle thing; not a clue how to spell it). It felt awesome. The I proceeded to die 5 times while I learned the fight. Fair enough, but by the 5th time, the atmosphere was utterly gone. When it pulled down the bridge, allowing me to reach the head and kill it, there was that -alright-now-you're-going-down-***** surge - until I failed to spot the patch up the rubble and died again. So yes I learned my lesson and killed it properly the next time, but by then the surge had been replaced by mild irritation.

 

[Jfswift]

I think with any game that relies on atmosphere you first have to learn the necessary skills for survival and then you can appreciate the immersion aspect.

 

[The_Blue_Rider]

The "Souls" series pretty much tries to accomplish this.

This, although I think Demon's Souls did it better than Dark Souls.

Really? How come?

I think Dark Souls is basically all the same, and everything they changed only makes it better. Like not having the central hub, and just having all areas interconnected. I think that's awesome for immersion. I also quite like the new healing system. No more stupid grass!

I agree the gameplay is a massive step-up from the hub-based gameplay of Demon's Souls, especially the healing system as you mentioned but I feel Dark Souls lacks more in atmosphere than Demon's Souls, I get a true sense of loss and hopelessness from Demon's Souls

This is probably my nostalgia speaking though, haha.

No I agree, Demon's Souls has an amazing, absolutely crushing atmosphere. Especially in the areas like the Tower of Latria.

Dark Souls still has some great atmosphere, but I felt like Demon's Souls atmosphere was much better.

I only played the first area of the tower of Latria and it was terrifying to say the least, meaning I actually sold Demon's Souls the week after because I knew I would never be able to get through that place without having nightmares

 

[Tupolev]

This depends on what we mean by "difficulty." Many sorts of "fake difficuly" (luck, guess and check, memorization in a game that shouldn't really depend too much on it, other stuff like that) are (almost) never particularly immersive or atmospheric. A good challenge can fit together with atmosphere, though, and is frequently required for it. I'm not exactly experienced with this particular series, but I doubt things like the Bit.Trip games would work very well if they were extremely easy.

 

[him over there]

I think of course they can exist, would you rather have a game where you can't die? All it really needs to do is pull it off tastefully and with some sort of context. I don't mean explain how you come back to life just instead of respawning wake up in like a hospital or medic station a few steps back.

 

[Vegosiux]

I think of course they can exist, would you rather have a game where you can't die?

If it's a good game, yes, I'd rather have that than one where "death" means those six seconds before the quickload is back up.

I also don't think difficulty is necessarily related to how easily you are killed, if at all.

 

[him over there]

I think of course they can exist, would you rather have a game where you can't die?

If it's a good game, yes, I'd rather have that than one where "death" means those six seconds before the quickload is back up.

I also don't think difficulty is necessarily related to how easily you are killed, if at all.

I absolutely loathe quicksaves, In the words of slowbeef "There is no skill in replaying the same thing over and reloading save states over and over again. A monkey could do this. A kid can do this." Just replaying the same thing over and over because of an external force requires no effort and takes away from the experience.

 

[Vegosiux]

I think of course they can exist, would you rather have a game where you can't die?

If it's a good game, yes, I'd rather have that than one where "death" means those six seconds before the quickload is back up.

I also don't think difficulty is necessarily related to how easily you are killed, if at all.

I absolutely loathe quicksaves, In the words of slowbeef "There is no skill in replaying the same thing over and reloading save states over and over again. A monkey could do this. A kid can do this." Just replaying the same thing over and over because of an external force requires no effort and takes away from the experience.

And yet that's what so many people these days consider "difficult" and "challenging".

 

[WhiteFangofWhoa]

Depends on the kind of difficulty. If it's a situation that makes you think about the game and develop a strategy for dealing with a given area then it helps immersion. If it's something that makes you quit and say 'damn that mage is such unfair game design they should nerf it' then yes, it does break immersion.

Sadly, a lot of players are much quicker to blame a loss on game balance than previously instead of looking around for some other way through. In the case of Skyrim, having NPCs express the same frustrations with the pesky creatures that kill you repeatedly (and maybe develop a special weapon to use on them that you can buy) would help develop a real, believable world.

The ever-present threat of death, particularly one with a gruesome death animation, can be an excellent tension-builder, better than most horror movies. When your body is tricked into believing your actual life is at stake, they've done their job.

 

[Not Lord Atkin]

Both Souls games cleverly disguise the issue you mentioned with story. I.E you are either undead or dead altogether and the aspect of player death is incorporated into game mechanics. This way, the games are actually pretty fucking murderous while not breaking the immersion factor. and the atmosphere's so thick you can practically slice it into little cubes and boil it into a soup.

 

[Azure-Supernova]

I'd like to see Skyrim or Fallout with a 'Hardcore Survival' difficulty option like Minecraft. You play on the hardest difficulty with no quick saves or re-loads. When you die your character profile for that difficulty is deleted. It certainly changed the way I played Minecraft, it'd probably change the way I play Fallout 3 or Skyrim or any other Single player RPG for that matter.

 

[Kahunaburger]

So, yeah.

Although to be fair it depends on the game. If the game is going for a feel of adversity, a good way to accomplish this is through actual adversity.

On the other hand, I can never really get into Modern Battlefield: Call of Bad Company single-player on higher difficulties because it appears to be more about figuring out enemy movement patterns until you stop dying when it feels like it should instead be about outrunning explosions and hip-firing assault rifles.