I don't quite see what you're getting at there, but are you saying that Windows is the only good platform for gaming?blindey said:
If you are, then you're wrong.
Ever heard of Ubuntu?
can pc even come close to being considered part of the console race?
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If you are, then you're wrong.
Ever heard of Ubuntu?
When it comes to gaming, there's 3 different types of it: Arcade - Console - PC, so no, the PC is not included in the Console category, and for the games that are 360 exclusive but still come to PC, that just means they are exclusive to the 360 on consoles, and since PC isnt a console its...okey, i lost my train of thought, but you get the point...
curly, I use Ubuntu/Vista dual boot (I didn't choose the second and that's the only windows disc I have here) Now getting that out of the way, I wasn't saying windows = only playform for gaming. Reread my post. I'll break it down into little bits for you, lil bullets if you will.curlycrouton said:
A) consoles are completely renovated and changed every year
B) the hardware requirements and such are vastly different
C)"exclusives" being ported to PC shouldn't be called exclusive was the OP's point. I bought up most of those were xbox (he brought that up him/herself), and the main PC point of gaming is on a windows machine. "released for windows" as the boxes say. This isn't to say you can't play them on Ubuntu with WINE or on a mac---(well I dunno about that. Is that an "emulator" type thing for doing windows apps/games on a mac?), but that is the majority. Is that clearer?
I'm not denying the creation of game centered computers, just like there are phones centered for storing music and songs, handhelds meant to store shows and videos, and applications meant to show off your awesomeness. That's where Alienware comes to mind, Apple may fit into that category as well.RAKtheUndead said:
But saying that a PC was meant to play games in the first place is just....ludicrous is the best way I can put it. Sure, there may be game-specific PCs but they are either few and/or far between or they were wold horribly anyway.
Almost everyone in the world owns atleast some sort of PC, how many of those PCs were "pimped up" to play games? Either people play internet games, or they play some solitare. The ratio of Regular PCs:Gaming PCs isn't a very small gap is it?
If you are going off to college, what's going to concern you more? A PC that won't crash and ruin all of your data, or a PC that can play Crysis on Medium to High settings? Let alone trying to keep all your data in check and organize everything, playing games isn't that high on your priority list though it may be a concern for you personally.
That said, there's obviously a huge market for PC gaming in general if it isn't already a huge market.
EDIT: Though on reflection, I'm sure I missed your entire point didn't I? Oh bumperkins', i've got to read comments more clearly.
Every PC fanboy says that they can build a PC that will out pace a console for a cheaper price. The ironic thing is that NONE of them have as yet listed a source that sells these magic PC components that cost a fraction of the price everyone else seems to pay. I did a comparative in another thread using an ACTUAL multi format game and ACTUAL specs listed by the game maker. The PC needed was more expensive than any console by well over £200 vs the 360 and £140 vs the PS3 and just to keep things open I left the topic open by asking if ANYONE could list a PC spec complete with genuine supplier prices that would do the claimed job. Shockingly enough no one responded.
If you have the cash and the know how you can build a cheap PC that will out perform a console but you cannot build a PC that will do the job, i.e play the game comfortably without compromise for a cheaper price than a brand new console, and yes like the last topic I will leave the subject open.
So here's the specs
- The game I used was Race Driver Grid, please feel free to use the specs listed as 'recommended' not 'minimum' from any game that is multi format
- The components have to be brand new
- The components have to be sourced from one supplier, if multi suppliers are used then delivery costs have to be included
- The computer has to be ALL components required to allow the system to boot; HDs, Optical Drives, PSU, Chassis and OS (they all seem to get forgotten in the PC is cheaper argument)
- Peripherals do not have to be included; monitor, mouse, speakers, keyboard, etc
Thank you for picking up my typo. I'll fix it later.Rajin Cajun said:
I'd prefer to not have to spend money upgrading my GPU, sound card, CPU every time a better model comes out.
Hell, in the past month nVidia have released two brand new GPU's that cost US$499. I can buy a BRAND NEW console for that.
The subtle difference here, chief, is that you are looking at specific costs as opposed to overall versatility. Yeah, my comperable PC may cost more overall than your console, but does it cost more than your console AND pc? My gaming PC also has Microsoft Office, so I don't have to change chairs when I switch from doing term papers to doing brutal homicide to an alien race. And in any event, there are no such things as games that aren't on the PC if you write or download the right programs.Laughing Man said:
So yeah, if you want to argue semantics, yes your silly little console may cost less than my PC. But your console is just like every other console out there. A dozen console gamers with a dozen consoles have identical game systems. A dozen PC gamers with a dozen gaming PCs have likely a dozen different setups, emphasizing the things they like and ignoring the things they could care less about.
Every 6 months? Are you tripping on acid?Radelaide said:
Crysis came out November of 2007, and it's arguably one of the most visually advanced games on the market. If you bought a computer that could run that game on or around Nov 2007, that same computer would glide you through any other gaming purchase up until this point and beyond. No upgrades would be necessary.
Well serious Personal Computer gamers assemble their own machines so including computer sales in the console race would mess it up. For my part I prefer the keyboard and mouse to analog control. Keyboards just seem more mechanical and real to me and mice offer more precision then analog sticks.
So the PC is still more expensive so whilst you did a lot more than most of these people that opt for the PC over console in this kind of debate the result is still you can't build a PC that will out perform a console for a smaller budget.
Now you can throw Crysis and ArmA in to it but that's not a comparative that's like saying the 360 is more powerful than the PS3 because it has Halo. Those games are exclusives and if you want to use them as a reason to buy a PC then it's a solid reason in general but not as a direct comparative of power. Especially when you consider this
http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/83292/reversal-crytek-confident-360-ps3-could-handle-crysis/
You also didn't provide a great deal of info on the systems you chose. You chose a site that has closed it's UK operations down listed a bunch of components and then given a final total. I am not saying you're lying or making the prices up but links to the individual components would have been more helpful.
Also a little bit of conversion to UK prices shows.
Final PC without OS = £330
Playstation 3 + HDMI Cable = £287.34
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-PLAYSTATION-Console-80-Model/dp/B001DTETLS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1232321065&sr=8-1
XBox 360 = £163
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Xbox-360-Console-Hard-Drive/dp/B001DTD0WM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1232322635&sr=1-1
A closer look at Komplett.ie, shows this
Playstation 3 = ?378.99 which is cheaper than the PC with OS and barely over the price of the PC without OS but if you converted that to Pounds Sterling you would have a PS3 costing £350 which is WAY over priced. You also get a game with that PS3 as well.
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=393561
This is a topic about consoles, ergo it is about gaming. You can toss in the PCs ability to be more versatile than a console but very few people buy consoles on the grounds that it is a hugely versatile piece of kit and even few people would use that as a reason if it came down to choosing something to game on.
Shoot, that PC would play Crysis very very well.
One thing to keep in mind, console lovers, is that for a long time, Microsoft had been selling the Xbox 360 as a loss leader (through about 2006). When they were finally able to trim the manufacturing costs in 2006, the cost estimate (for a 20Gb Xbox 360, if you remember that model) was about $323.30, and they were selling it for $400 dollars.
"Oh wow", you say, "that is cheap; a lot cheaper than what RAK has done." Hold it right there; if you look at the figure I took these numbers from my source [ http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/display/20061120132150.html ], the cost of parts are astronomically low: Power Supply - $25.50, Enclosure - $20.50, Wireless Controller - $4.75, and even the Motherboard (which contains the graphics card required to run these games, along with the on-board memory) - $204.00. Someone would only be able to create something at that cost with a bulk-deal, or some agreement or contract. A typical end user would not be able to approach those prices in 2006, and for a good while, Microsoft was subsidizing those losses through gaming deals, etc.
This isn't even to bring up the PS3, which cost $840.35 for the 60Gb SKU in 2006.
Now RAK has created a machine that, can not only play these games, but also help you with your homework, surf the Internet, play your music, help you do your job, and as much as you want.
Which, I guess means that...
The plight of console superiority proclaimers is further burdened by the fact that the PC has the greatest and most robust back catalog of any and all machines (the only machine that is truly backwards compatible), and also does not require the investment into further consoles (although upgrading takes the place of this). As a final hurrah, I'm pleased to announce I have completed many GBA, Nintendo 64, Sega, and Atari games on my computer through emulators and ROMs which are free to download through the Internet. EDIT: And if the Dolphin team would get finished here soon, Gamecube games would be next.
Good luck beating that, people.
One thing to keep in mind, console lovers, is that for a long time, Microsoft had been selling the Xbox 360 as a loss leader (through about 2006). When they were finally able to trim the manufacturing costs in 2006, the cost estimate (for a 20Gb Xbox 360, if you remember that model) was about $323.30, and they were selling it for $400 dollars.
"Oh wow", you say, "that is cheap; a lot cheaper than what RAK has done." Hold it right there; if you look at the figure I took these numbers from my source [ http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/display/20061120132150.html ], the cost of parts are astronomically low: Power Supply - $25.50, Enclosure - $20.50, Wireless Controller - $4.75, and even the Motherboard (which contains the graphics card required to run these games, along with the on-board memory) - $204.00. Someone would only be able to create something at that cost with a bulk-deal, or some agreement or contract. A typical end user would not be able to approach those prices in 2006, and for a good while, Microsoft was subsidizing those losses through gaming deals, etc.
This isn't even to bring up the PS3, which cost $840.35 for the 60Gb SKU in 2006.
Now RAK has created a machine that, can not only play these games, but also help you with your homework, surf the Internet, play your music, help you do your job, and as much as you want.
Which, I guess means that...
...fell for the charade that a PS3 only costs Sony ?378.99 to make. Unfortunately, that's just not true.Laughing Man said:
The plight of console superiority proclaimers is further burdened by the fact that the PC has the greatest and most robust back catalog of any and all machines (the only machine that is truly backwards compatible), and also does not require the investment into further consoles (although upgrading takes the place of this). As a final hurrah, I'm pleased to announce I have completed many GBA, Nintendo 64, Sega, and Atari games on my computer through emulators and ROMs which are free to download through the Internet. EDIT: And if the Dolphin team would get finished here soon, Gamecube games would be next.
Good luck beating that, people.
I can't help but smile at this.Eggo said:Err, software follows what hardware can do. What are you raving about?Jumplion said:I know this is a tired argument with you, (after all if I'm not mistaken you're the guild leader for the PC fanboys right?) but everytime I see one of these rants with the PC guys it's always about horsepower and CPUs and GPSs and Semiconductors and storage space for Porn.
You guys go crazy over the hardware but never mention the software. "Oh, consoles need better CPUs to keep up with GrApHiX!" "They need more RAM to keep up with the raw proccessing power of the PC!" "How will they ever get to the storage power of the PC is they can only store 1/5th of my porn?!?"
I know it's a tired argument, we've debated this before I'm sure, you go on with your technical mumbo-jumbo while I go on with my slightly Anti- yet Pro-HD movement stuff but counter that with "It's not AlL aBoUt ThE tEcH mAn!", but it's still fun to debate with you
Anyway, no I don't think PCs should be counted as part of the "Consul Wrz". Mainly being these reasons;
!) A PC is a business machine, first and foremost. Gaming is an afterthought.
@) PCs have been around much longer than consoles, so technically they have "won" year in and year out
#) PCs are much more technologically advanced than Consoles, with parts coming out every 6 months or so.
$) Most people build their own PCs, so then the sales numbers would have to be broken down into individual parts or just the sale of prebuilt PCs, and that would be annoying no?
%) Can't think of any more.
So, I guess the PC is just "too all powerful and manevolant" to be considered part of those filthy, dirty, peasants of Consoles! BOW DOWN TO THE PC MASTER RACE! LEAVE NO ROOM FOR CHOICE, KILL EVERYTHING!
...what?
Sometimes I love your little noggin, eggo.
It's because the software is largely irrelevant. It doesn't matter if I've got XP or Vista or Windows 7 or certain builds of Linux. I can play games on them without a hitch. And if you're not talking about OS's, the software is redundant as a whole. You don't need anything other than the game and an OS if you have the required hardware.Jumplion said:
This is equivalent to the XMB and whatever the 360 and Wii have.
