Can Red Alert 3 restore my confidence in RTS?

[Arcticflame]

Don't bullshit me. You proudly posted that you were going to pirate it, and now I called you out on it you switch to the 'I always buy games, I'm such a good customer'. Yeah, you're a veritable saint. You're just so ethical.

If you can't stand DRM that much, then don't buy it. That would be ethical. Using it as a piss weak excuse to abandon ethical behaviour? That's just sleazy.

I didn't proudly boast at all, don't try to smear my credibility using attacks on character, that's just a method people use when they cannot argue with facts, but must rely on muddying the argument.

I will pirate the game, because I wish to play it, I never said I was a saint, you implied that.

I notice you did not respond to any of the points I made, merely made a character attack and left it at that.

Pirating the game isn't hurting the industry, it makes no difference to them if I pirate the game or not, as I won't be purchasing the game until I see it in bargain bins for 10$ where I can safely buy it without worrying about wasting 100$ on a game that will be useless to me after 3 installs.

That's where the problem is with arguments agains't pirating, there are genuine cases of abuse of the industry, and there are cases, such as me, where regardless of whether I pirate it or not, it does not affect the industry.

Of course, there is the chance I pirate the game, and then after playing it, find it to be a fantastic game which I must play multiplayer on, thereby gaining EA money.

Oh what's this? Pirating gaining a company money? Inconceivable!
Of course, that could have been avoided had they just not put DRM onto it in the first place.

So please don't speak to me as if you know me, or that I'm some sort of pedo demon (sleazy? wtf?) who visits earth from hell to cause the gaming industry harm through pirating games which have secuROM on them, you have no idea what my ethics are, and for all you know, mine could be doing a whole lot more good than you.

 

[cainx10a]

RA3 has SecuROM?

It's lost my sale, I'll have to pirate it now.

*facepalm* People like you are the reason why we have to put up with DRM. You, sir, are a d.. no, I better restrain myself.

People who have been pirating games for gods know how long, will always do so. But if honest people were to resort to piracy because of DRM; you should know something is wrong with the current system.

On-topic: You sir should really give a try to Company of Heroes (it felt like playing through a very climatic game, even in skirmishes), and either Starcraft 2 or Dawn of War 2 for an rts with a more interesting background.

 

[CmdrGoob]

Don't bullshit me. You proudly posted that you were going to pirate it, and now I called you out on it you switch to the 'I always buy games, I'm such a good customer'. Yeah, you're a veritable saint. You're just so ethical.

If you can't stand DRM that much, then don't buy it. That would be ethical. Using it as a piss weak excuse to abandon ethical behaviour? That's just sleazy.

I didn't proudly boast at all, don't try to smear my credibility using attacks on character, that's just a method people use when they cannot argue with facts, but must rely on muddying the argument.

I will pirate the game, because I wish to play it, I never said I was a saint, you implied that.

I notice you did not respond to any of the points I made, merely made a character attack and left it at that.

Pirating the game isn't hurting the industry, it makes no difference to them if I pirate the game or not, as I won't be purchasing the game until I see it in bargain bins for 10$ where I can safely buy it without worrying about wasting 100$ on a game that will be useless to me after 3 installs.

That's where the problem is with arguments agains't pirating, there are genuine cases of abuse of the industry, and there are cases, such as me, where regardless of whether I pirate it or not, it does not affect the industry.

Of course, there is the chance I pirate the game, and then after playing it, find it to be a fantastic game which I must play multiplayer on, thereby gaining EA money.

Oh what's this? Pirating gaining a company money? Inconceivable!
Of course, that could have been avoided had they just not put DRM onto it in the first place.

So please don't speak to me as if you know me, or that I'm some sort of pedo demon (sleazy? wtf?) who visits earth from hell to cause the gaming industry harm through pirating games which have secuROM on them, you have no idea what my ethics are, and for all you know, mine could be doing a whole lot more good than you.

Lol! You couldn't wait to tell everyone about how you were going to pirate it. Hahah. Now you're so shocked and hurt. How dare I accuse you of being unethical for doing something that is immoral and illegal! You're smearing your own credibility, fool.

Spare us your weak attempts at rationalisation. Oh, you might pay for it one day. How good of you to condescend to perhaps consider, one day, or perhaps one year, possibly even paying for it.

No wait, that's weak BS. You want to play it? Pay for it. End of story.

 

[ph8360]

Don't bullshit me. You proudly posted that you were going to pirate it, and now I called you out on it you switch to the 'I always buy games, I'm such a good customer'. Yeah, you're a veritable saint. You're just so ethical.

If you can't stand DRM that much, then don't buy it. That would be ethical. Using it as a piss weak excuse to abandon ethical behaviour? That's just sleazy.

I didn't proudly boast at all, don't try to smear my credibility using attacks on character, that's just a method people use when they cannot argue with facts, but must rely on muddying the argument.

I will pirate the game, because I wish to play it, I never said I was a saint, you implied that.

I notice you did not respond to any of the points I made, merely made a character attack and left it at that.

Pirating the game isn't hurting the industry, it makes no difference to them if I pirate the game or not, as I won't be purchasing the game until I see it in bargain bins for 10$ where I can safely buy it without worrying about wasting 100$ on a game that will be useless to me after 3 installs.

That's where the problem is with arguments agains't pirating, there are genuine cases of abuse of the industry, and there are cases, such as me, where regardless of whether I pirate it or not, it does not affect the industry.

Of course, there is the chance I pirate the game, and then after playing it, find it to be a fantastic game which I must play multiplayer on, thereby gaining EA money.

Oh what's this? Pirating gaining a company money? Inconceivable!
Of course, that could have been avoided had they just not put DRM onto it in the first place.

So please don't speak to me as if you know me, or that I'm some sort of pedo demon (sleazy? wtf?) who visits earth from hell to cause the gaming industry harm through pirating games which have secuROM on them, you have no idea what my ethics are, and for all you know, mine could be doing a whole lot more good than you.

Lol! You couldn't wait to tell everyone about how you were going to pirate it. Hahah. Now you're so shocked and hurt. How dare I accuse you of being unethical for doing something that is immoral and illegal! You're smearing your own credibility, fool.

Spare us your weak attempts at rationalisation. Oh, you might pay for it one day. How good of you to condescend to perhaps consider, one day, or perhaps one year, possibly even paying for it.

No wait, that's weak BS. You want to play it? Pay for it.

You sir, are an idiot. His statement was not made in an attempt to 'boast' about how '1337' he is in pirating. He was arguing against poorly thought through, oppressive solutions to 'stop piracy'.

For many, pirating a game is a direct reply to developers, simply saying 'No, this isnt good enough'. Its funny how you can defend this ridiculous point of view on behalf of developers when systems such as Steam are in place, which not only prevent piracy, but give far greater value for money to consumers.

Im not saying that all pirates are activists or revolutionaries, but it is undeniable that the gaming industry has, in general, over the past few years, stopped caring about the community, and 'solutions' such as DRM simply show the current state of customer service.

 

[CmdrGoob]

Don't bullshit me. You proudly posted that you were going to pirate it, and now I called you out on it you switch to the 'I always buy games, I'm such a good customer'. Yeah, you're a veritable saint. You're just so ethical.

If you can't stand DRM that much, then don't buy it. That would be ethical. Using it as a piss weak excuse to abandon ethical behaviour? That's just sleazy.

I didn't proudly boast at all, don't try to smear my credibility using attacks on character, that's just a method people use when they cannot argue with facts, but must rely on muddying the argument.

I will pirate the game, because I wish to play it, I never said I was a saint, you implied that.

I notice you did not respond to any of the points I made, merely made a character attack and left it at that.

Pirating the game isn't hurting the industry, it makes no difference to them if I pirate the game or not, as I won't be purchasing the game until I see it in bargain bins for 10$ where I can safely buy it without worrying about wasting 100$ on a game that will be useless to me after 3 installs.

That's where the problem is with arguments agains't pirating, there are genuine cases of abuse of the industry, and there are cases, such as me, where regardless of whether I pirate it or not, it does not affect the industry.

Of course, there is the chance I pirate the game, and then after playing it, find it to be a fantastic game which I must play multiplayer on, thereby gaining EA money.

Oh what's this? Pirating gaining a company money? Inconceivable!
Of course, that could have been avoided had they just not put DRM onto it in the first place.

So please don't speak to me as if you know me, or that I'm some sort of pedo demon (sleazy? wtf?) who visits earth from hell to cause the gaming industry harm through pirating games which have secuROM on them, you have no idea what my ethics are, and for all you know, mine could be doing a whole lot more good than you.

Lol! You couldn't wait to tell everyone about how you were going to pirate it. Hahah. Now you're so shocked and hurt. How dare I accuse you of being unethical for doing something that is immoral and illegal! You're smearing your own credibility, fool.

Spare us your weak attempts at rationalisation. Oh, you might pay for it one day. How good of you to condescend to perhaps consider, one day, or perhaps one year, possibly even paying for it.

No wait, that's weak BS. You want to play it? Pay for it.

You sir, are an idiot. His statement was not made in an attempt to 'boast' about how '1337' he is in pirating. He was arguing against poorly thought through, oppressive solutions to 'stop piracy'.

For many, pirating a game is a direct reply to developers, simply saying 'No, this isnt good enough'. Its funny how you can defend this ridiculous point of view on behalf of developers when systems such as Steam are in place, which not only prevent piracy, but give far greater value for money to consumers.

Im not saying that all pirates are activists or revolutionaries, but it is undeniable that the gaming industry has, in general, over the past few years, stopped caring about the community, and 'solutions' such as DRM simply show the current state of customer service.

Not buying it is a direct reply to developers. Pirating it is not only unethical and illegal but an encouragement to develop further anti-piracy measures. Piracy forces developers to include anti-piracy methods. Like DRM. You understand that? More piracy = more anti-piracy methods. As piracy has increased, the games industry has included more and more draconian anti-piracy methods in direct proportion.

And your solution to anti-piracy methods is to pirate games? Hahhahah. You're a true genius. No wait, the other thing.

 

[Stammer]

Red Alert 3 is the best RTS game I've ever played, and I have played StarCraft and that terrible Supreme Commander before. It's a lot of fun, it's not frustrating, it's fast-paced, and it's balanced. What more do you need?

 

[bue519]

why not just let people play the rts that they want instead of trying to judge them for it, i mean i don't always have and hour or two for a sup com game, so ill just play a quick tiberium wars match. its all about how your feeling, i mean i don't start comparing hl2 deathmatch to cod4

 

[Arcticflame]

Lol! You couldn't wait to tell everyone about how you were going to pirate it. Hahah. Now you're so shocked and hurt. How dare I accuse you of being unethical for doing something that is immoral and illegal! You're smearing your own credibility, fool.

Spare us your weak attempts at rationalisation. Oh, you might pay for it one day. How good of you to condescend to perhaps consider, one day, or perhaps one year, possibly even paying for it.

No wait, that's weak BS. You want to play it? Pay for it. End of story.

I note, you still have not come up with any logical discussion points.

I have not made a weak rationalisation, and even if I had, I am still on top of the discussion through actual use of logic, instead of character attacks.

I never said I was offended, once again you put words in my mouth, please stop trying to guess as to my emotions, the only one I feel at the moment is irritation.

Saying you will pirate on a gaming forum is like saying what technique you use in tennis, it isn't exactly uncommon. I am rather bemused that you would say I was jumping out of my skin to tell everyone. And even if I was, this is a forum, that's the point of them, to express action and thought.

And "weak" rationilisation.

Allow me to tell you what my pirating has benefited other people.

The music industry long ago lost my respect, I began pirating.

Allow me to use the band muse as an example, I pirated 10 of their songs, I loved them, adored it.

From this, I downloaded a few albums, loved it, found a band I really liked.

Since then, I have bought 5 albums,2 DvD's, 4 tab books, gone to their concert, and am planning on going to one every time they come to Australia, I have purchased a large poster, and have gotten 3 friends and one family member into Muse, who all went to concerts and have purchased various items, including one who has actually outpurchased me in merchandise.

I never would have found that band otherwise, I still never hear them on radio, and I don't want to spend 400$ on overpriced albums where the majority of the money goes into the music industry until I find one band which genuinely deserves my money, and when I do find that band

This is the prime example, and a band that I have spent the most money on, but the same as happened in varying degrees to other bands such as, QOTSA, NIN, SOAD, Arcade Fire, Tenacious D, TISM, Regurgitator, Rammstein, Buckethead, CKY, Disarmonia Mundi, and those are just bands I list off the top of my head.

How does this apply to games?

Well while I did say I support games companies, I didn't say I didn't pirate the games first.

Games which I purchased after I pirated -> Crysis, DoW, Worms World Party, Oblivion, Command and Conquer Generals, GTA III, and GTA:SA, Star Wars: Jedi Academy, Neverwinter Nights, Halo CoD4.

So rationalisation? Nope, my point is proven by my actions. I do pay for the games I pirate, the only games that miss out on my cash is the ones which are bad to begin with, or ones which are invasive.

I am getting the idea that you think publishers can be trusted? Well another game which I pirated first, then purchased later was AoE:III, but you know what happened on that one?

My CD-keys didn't work when I tried to play it multiplayer, I contacted Ubisoft, and found it was a problem relating to them sending out the same CD-key to ALL USERS of the gold edition.
I requested new ones, they didn't have any, and said they couldn't help me, I should return it, I tried to return it, it was outside the week long policy for returns at EB.

I lost 20$ on a game I should have just pirated. SecuROM is the same, purchasing the game will lose me money and in the end I will be forced to pirate it anyway if I wish to play it.

Red Alert 3 is a game which I was going to straight out buy through brand loyalty, even though westwood wasn't making it, it's similar to the half-life series or diablo series in that I need it for the sake of it completing the set, but due to SecuROM, that is trashed.

 

[ph8360]

Don't bullshit me. You proudly posted that you were going to pirate it, and now I called you out on it you switch to the 'I always buy games, I'm such a good customer'. Yeah, you're a veritable saint. You're just so ethical.

If you can't stand DRM that much, then don't buy it. That would be ethical. Using it as a piss weak excuse to abandon ethical behaviour? That's just sleazy.

I didn't proudly boast at all, don't try to smear my credibility using attacks on character, that's just a method people use when they cannot argue with facts, but must rely on muddying the argument.

I will pirate the game, because I wish to play it, I never said I was a saint, you implied that.

I notice you did not respond to any of the points I made, merely made a character attack and left it at that.

Pirating the game isn't hurting the industry, it makes no difference to them if I pirate the game or not, as I won't be purchasing the game until I see it in bargain bins for 10$ where I can safely buy it without worrying about wasting 100$ on a game that will be useless to me after 3 installs.

That's where the problem is with arguments agains't pirating, there are genuine cases of abuse of the industry, and there are cases, such as me, where regardless of whether I pirate it or not, it does not affect the industry.

Of course, there is the chance I pirate the game, and then after playing it, find it to be a fantastic game which I must play multiplayer on, thereby gaining EA money.

Oh what's this? Pirating gaining a company money? Inconceivable!
Of course, that could have been avoided had they just not put DRM onto it in the first place.

So please don't speak to me as if you know me, or that I'm some sort of pedo demon (sleazy? wtf?) who visits earth from hell to cause the gaming industry harm through pirating games which have secuROM on them, you have no idea what my ethics are, and for all you know, mine could be doing a whole lot more good than you.

Lol! You couldn't wait to tell everyone about how you were going to pirate it. Hahah. Now you're so shocked and hurt. How dare I accuse you of being unethical for doing something that is immoral and illegal! You're smearing your own credibility, fool.

Spare us your weak attempts at rationalisation. Oh, you might pay for it one day. How good of you to condescend to perhaps consider, one day, or perhaps one year, possibly even paying for it.

No wait, that's weak BS. You want to play it? Pay for it.

You sir, are an idiot. His statement was not made in an attempt to 'boast' about how '1337' he is in pirating. He was arguing against poorly thought through, oppressive solutions to 'stop piracy'.

For many, pirating a game is a direct reply to developers, simply saying 'No, this isnt good enough'. Its funny how you can defend this ridiculous point of view on behalf of developers when systems such as Steam are in place, which not only prevent piracy, but give far greater value for money to consumers.

Im not saying that all pirates are activists or revolutionaries, but it is undeniable that the gaming industry has, in general, over the past few years, stopped caring about the community, and 'solutions' such as DRM simply show the current state of customer service.

Not buying it is a direct reply to developers. Pirating it is not only unethical and illegal but an encouragement to develop further anti-piracy measures. Piracy forces developers to include anti-piracy methods. Like DRM. You understand that? More piracy = more anti-piracy methods. As piracy has increased, the games industry has included more and more draconian anti-piracy methods in direct proportion.

And your solution to anti-piracy methods is to pirate games? Hahhahah. You're a true genius. No wait, the other thing.

The point is, DRM is a poorly developed solution which hurts real customers as much as it hurts pirates, an unnecessary implementation also, as several other viable and consumer friendly alternatives already exist, i will use Steam as an example again as i believe it is the the direction which developers should follow in order to make the gaming industry more friendly to both consumers and developers.

I do not advocate piracy of games, but i understand why many people pirate games, and it makes sense when you look at the value for money they are being offered in the first place

 

[stompy]

Get it this time? Even if DRM is actually a conspiracy to prevent rental or whatever tinfoil shit you believe, if it wasn't for dickheads who pirate games, publishers couldn't get away with having it.

I'm just nit-picking here, and I have no wish to involve myself in this argument you are having some of the other users, but... even if there wasn't piracy, publishers could still get away with implementing DRM like SecuRom.

You know how you have to agree to a EULA before you start installing a computer game? Yeh, a publisher could, theoretically, place a clause 'By agreeing to this EULA, we now own your soul.", and well, get away with it. Yes, the 'soul' bit would be thrown out of court because of unreasonable demand, but EULAs themselves have not been challenged in court, and thus, no one knows how much power they have. They could still get away with using the invasive DRM, even if piracy isn't that big of a deal, by placing a clause about it in the EULA. Hell, many forms of DRM are like viruses and spyware, and they aren't illegal.

Now, I'm not saying piracy is the solution (I agree that boycotting should be the way), but that your reasoning piracy is fuelling this DRM doesn't hold.

 

[Brett Alex]

Not buying it is a direct reply to developers. Pirating it is not only unethical and illegal but an encouragement to develop further anti-piracy measures. Piracy forces developers to include anti-piracy methods. Like DRM. You understand that? More piracy = more anti-piracy methods. As piracy has increased, the games industry has included more and more draconian anti-piracy methods in direct proportion.

And your solution to anti-piracy methods is to pirate games? Hahhahah. You're a true genius. No wait, the other thing.

While I agree with you that piracy is not necessarily ethical or the best reaction when faced with an issue you disagree with, do you really think that SecuROM stops piracy? Like, really?

Think about it.
If I buy Red Alert 3, not only do a I have to pay an exorbitant price (living in Australia) I have limited installs.

If I pirate Red Alert 3, I can install it as many times as I like and it is free.

Who is the anti piracy software harming in that situation?
The evil pirate? Or the honest consumer?

 

[CmdrGoob]

Lol! You couldn't wait to tell everyone about how you were going to pirate it. Hahah. Now you're so shocked and hurt. How dare I accuse you of being unethical for doing something that is immoral and illegal! You're smearing your own credibility, fool.

Spare us your weak attempts at rationalisation. Oh, you might pay for it one day. How good of you to condescend to perhaps consider, one day, or perhaps one year, possibly even paying for it.

No wait, that's weak BS. You want to play it? Pay for it. End of story.

I note, you still have not come up with any logical discussion points.

I have not made a weak rationalisation, and even if I had, I am still on top of the discussion through actual use of logic, instead of character attacks.

I never said I was offended, once again you put words in my mouth, please stop trying to guess as to my emotions, the only one I feel at the moment is irritation.

Saying you will pirate on a gaming forum is like saying what technique you use in tennis, it isn't exactly uncommon. I am rather bemused that you would say I was jumping out of my skin to tell everyone. And even if I was, this is a forum, that's the point of them, to express action and thought.

And "weak" rationilisation.

Allow me to tell you what my pirating has benefited other people.

The music industry long ago lost my respect, I began pirating.

Allow me to use the band muse as an example, I pirated 10 of their songs, I loved them, adored it.

From this, I downloaded a few albums, loved it, found a band I really liked.

Since then, I have bought 5 albums,2 DvD's, 4 tab books, gone to their concert, and am planning on going to one every time they come to Australia, I have purchased a large poster, and have gotten 3 friends and one family member into Muse, who all went to concerts and have purchased various items, including one who has actually outpurchased me in merchandise.

I never would have found that band otherwise, I still never hear them on radio, and I don't want to spend 400$ on overpriced albums where the majority of the money goes into the music industry until I find one band which genuinely deserves my money, and when I do find that band

This is the prime example, and a band that I have spent the most money on, but the same as happened in varying degrees to other bands such as, QOTSA, NIN, SOAD, Arcade Fire, Tenacious D, TISM, Regurgitator, Rammstein, Buckethead, CKY, Disarmonia Mundi, and those are just bands I list off the top of my head.

How does this apply to games?

Well while I did say I support games companies, I didn't say I didn't pirate the games first.

Games which I purchased after I pirated -> Crysis, DoW, Worms World Party, Oblivion, Command and Conquer Generals, GTA III, and GTA:SA, Star Wars: Jedi Academy, Neverwinter Nights, Halo CoD4.

So rationalisation? Nope, my point is proven by my actions. I do pay for the games I pirate, the only games that miss out on my cash is the ones which are bad to begin with, or ones which are invasive.

I am getting the idea that you think publishers can be trusted? Well another game which I pirated first, then purchased later was AoE:III, but you know what happened on that one?

My CD-keys didn't work when I tried to play it multiplayer, I contacted Ubisoft, and found it was a problem relating to them sending out the same CD-key to ALL USERS of the gold edition.
I requested new ones, they didn't have any, and said they couldn't help me, I should return it, I tried to return it, it was outside the week long policy for returns at EB.

I lost 20$ on a game I should have just pirated. SecuROM is the same, purchasing the game will lose me money and in the end I will be forced to pirate it anyway if I wish to play it.

Red Alert 3 is a game which I was going to straight out buy through brand loyalty, even though westwood wasn't making it, it's similar to the half-life series or diablo series in that I need it for the sake of it completing the set, but due to SecuROM, that is trashed.

ROFL. You've made a ton of weak rationalisations. It's OK if I pirate this because it has DRM. It's OK if I pirate this because it won't hurt the game industry.. much. It's OK if I pirate this because I might pay for it later. It's OK if I pirate it because Ubisoft are terrible. It's OK if I pirate it because it'll be like a demo.

That's all just weak BS rationalisations. If you want to play a game, you buy it. You pay the people who developed it. If you want a demo, then try the demo, and if there is no demo that's their decision and you can't decide you'll get a demo by pirating it.

It's that simple.

 

[Arcticflame]

ROFL. You've made a ton of weak rationalisations. It's OK if I pirate this because it has DRM. It's OK if I pirate this because it won't hurt the game industry.. much. It's OK if I pirate this because I might pay for it later. It's OK if I pirate it because Ubisoft are terrible. It's OK if I pirate it because it'll be like a demo.

That's all just weak BS rationalisations. If you want to play a game, you buy it. You pay the people who developed it. If you want a demo, then try the demo, and if there is no demo that's their decision and you can't decide you'll get a demo by pirating it.

It's that simple.

You haven't responded to my points, you continued to dance around my factual evidence, and make lame insults.
Maybe you misunderstand me, But I don't believe legal = moral, which is what you are arguing at the moment.

A weak rationalisation is one which is grounded in rhetoric, and is false when brought into practice, but I have already provided evidence of my actions, and what has occured as a result of them, all of which are positive to the developer.

Use logic please.

 

[CmdrGoob]

Not buying it is a direct reply to developers. Pirating it is not only unethical and illegal but an encouragement to develop further anti-piracy measures. Piracy forces developers to include anti-piracy methods. Like DRM. You understand that? More piracy = more anti-piracy methods. As piracy has increased, the games industry has included more and more draconian anti-piracy methods in direct proportion.

And your solution to anti-piracy methods is to pirate games? Hahhahah. You're a true genius. No wait, the other thing.

While I agree with you that piracy is not necessarily ethical or the best reaction when faced with an issue you disagree with, do you really think that SecuROM stops piracy? Like, really?

Think about it.
If I buy Red Alert 3, not only do a I have to pay an exorbitant price (living in Australia) I have limited installs.

If I pirate Red Alert 3, I can install it as many times as I like and it is free.

Who is the anti piracy software harming in that situation?
The evil pirate? Or the honest consumer?

I've never said it securom stops piracy, I've only said that it is an anti-piracy method, and that it is intended to stop piracy. Which is true whether pirates have defeated it or not. If securom is defeated and piracy is still widespread, then there will be demand for even more deeply rooted and draconian anti-piracy schemes.

Plus the three install limit is only a limit on how many times you can install it concurrently, at least if RA3 is similar to other uses of securom. As long as you uninstall it from somewhere before you install it somewhere else, you can keep installing it.

What are you arguing here, that if I do something immoral and also break the law, it's cheaper and easier than the being legitimate? Yeah, wow. That sure makes it better.

 

[AceDiamond]

Not buying it is a direct reply to developers. Pirating it is not only unethical and illegal but an encouragement to develop further anti-piracy measures. Piracy forces developers to include anti-piracy methods. Like DRM. You understand that? More piracy = more anti-piracy methods. As piracy has increased, the games industry has included more and more draconian anti-piracy methods in direct proportion.

And your solution to anti-piracy methods is to pirate games? Hahhahah. You're a true genius. No wait, the other thing.

While I agree with you that piracy is not necessarily ethical or the best reaction when faced with an issue you disagree with, do you really think that SecuROM stops piracy? Like, really?

Think about it.
If I buy Red Alert 3, not only do a I have to pay an exorbitant price (living in Australia) I have limited installs.

If I pirate Red Alert 3, I can install it as many times as I like and it is free.

Who is the anti piracy software harming in that situation?
The evil pirate? Or the honest consumer?

I've never said it securom stops piracy, I've only said that it is an anti-piracy method, and that it is intended to stop piracy. Which is true whether pirates have defeated it or not. If securom is defeated and piracy is still widespread, then there will be demand for even more deeply rooted and draconian anti-piracy schemes.

Plus the three install limit is only a limit on how many times you can install it concurrently, at least if RA3 is similar to other uses of securom. As long as you uninstall it from somewhere before you install it somewhere else, you can keep installing it.

What are you arguing here, that if I do something immoral and also break the law, it's cheaper and easier than the being legitimate? Yeah, wow. That sure makes it better.

Prohibition wasn't a good idea, neither is this SecuROM bullshit. One gave rise to the mafia, this one gave rise to more software pirates, out of otherwise honest customers.

Or in my case, just not giving EA any money and not even playing their games. That very taint of those two letters is what I'm boycotting, personally.

 

[Stammer]

I got pissed off with the 3rd faction because they were a fucking protoss rip off in regards to their air ships.

Thanks for thinking of the wrong game, here. That's C&C3, where they ripped EVERYTHING from StarCraft. Red Alert 3 rips no one off (except maybe Transformers, but it does it with love).

Red Alert 3's third faction only has two aircraft and one flying infantry. One is a transforming mech that goes from an anti-infantry robot to an anti-tank VTOL aircraft. The other is an anti-air robot that transforms into an anti-armor helicopter.

 

[Brett Alex]

Plus the three install limit is only a limit on how many times you can install it concurrently, at least if RA3 is similar to other uses of securom. As long as you uninstall it from somewhere before you install it somewhere else, you can keep installing it.

What are you arguing here, that if I do something immoral and also break the law, it's cheaper and easier than the being legitimate? Yeah, wow. That sure makes it better.

Back in your box chocolate, I'm not having a go at you, and I'm not justifying piracy. I'm just playing devils advocate. Take a few deep breaths, and instead of trying to summarize what I'm arguing, look at it objectively.

Do you really think SecuROM is effective at stopping piracy?
Or do you think it is stopping games re-sales?

Take a look at this [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/stolen-pixels/5239-Stolen-Pixels-20-Not-All-Change-is-Progress] and this. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/stolen-pixels/5137-Stolen-Pixels-12-The-Economics-Lesson]

 

[CmdrGoob]

ROFL. You've made a ton of weak rationalisations. It's OK if I pirate this because it has DRM. It's OK if I pirate this because it won't hurt the game industry.. much. It's OK if I pirate this because I might pay for it later. It's OK if I pirate it because Ubisoft are terrible. It's OK if I pirate it because it'll be like a demo.

That's all just weak BS rationalisations. If you want to play a game, you buy it. You pay the people who developed it. If you want a demo, then try the demo, and if there is no demo that's their decision and you can't decide you'll get a demo by pirating it.

It's that simple.

You haven't responded to my points, you continued to dance around my factual evidence, and make lame insults.
Maybe you misunderstand me, But I don't believe legal = moral, which is what you are arguing at the moment.

A weak rationalisation is one which is grounded in rhetoric, and is false when brought into practice, but I have already provided evidence of my actions, and what has occured as a result of them, all of which are positive to the developer.

Use logic please.

Let's take this slowly. You say, for example, you've pirated games, but later payed for them and therefore it's OK. But this doesn't change the fact that you've pirated them first; if you were to say shoplift something and pay for it later you could still be found guilty of shoplifting. The fact is that if you want to play a game, you are obliged to pay first because that is what the publisher is offering you. You don't have the right to arbitrarily decide you don't want it to work like that and therefore you don't need to pay first.

Secondly, you imply that you've payed for games if you liked them enough. But that's not how it works; if you want to play something you have to pay for it first, and you can't decide you aren't going to pay for it because it doesn't meet your arbitrary standards. You can buy it first and try to return it if you don't like it, and maybe succeed, but you simply do not have the right to download it and never pay for it if you don't like it.

Thirdly, if you want to play something before you buy it, you can play the demo. If there is no demo, then it's the publishers right to choose not to have a demo, and it's not your right to overrule that by pirating it.

It is a weak rationalisation because you simply do not have the right to do what you are doing, but are pretending like it's OK anyway.

 

[CmdrGoob]

Not buying it is a direct reply to developers. Pirating it is not only unethical and illegal but an encouragement to develop further anti-piracy measures. Piracy forces developers to include anti-piracy methods. Like DRM. You understand that? More piracy = more anti-piracy methods. As piracy has increased, the games industry has included more and more draconian anti-piracy methods in direct proportion.

And your solution to anti-piracy methods is to pirate games? Hahhahah. You're a true genius. No wait, the other thing.

While I agree with you that piracy is not necessarily ethical or the best reaction when faced with an issue you disagree with, do you really think that SecuROM stops piracy? Like, really?

Think about it.
If I buy Red Alert 3, not only do a I have to pay an exorbitant price (living in Australia) I have limited installs.

If I pirate Red Alert 3, I can install it as many times as I like and it is free.

Who is the anti piracy software harming in that situation?
The evil pirate? Or the honest consumer?

I've never said it securom stops piracy, I've only said that it is an anti-piracy method, and that it is intended to stop piracy. Which is true whether pirates have defeated it or not. If securom is defeated and piracy is still widespread, then there will be demand for even more deeply rooted and draconian anti-piracy schemes.

Plus the three install limit is only a limit on how many times you can install it concurrently, at least if RA3 is similar to other uses of securom. As long as you uninstall it from somewhere before you install it somewhere else, you can keep installing it.

What are you arguing here, that if I do something immoral and also break the law, it's cheaper and easier than the being legitimate? Yeah, wow. That sure makes it better.

Prohibition wasn't a good idea, neither is this SecuROM bullshit. One gave rise to the mafia, this one gave rise to more software pirates, out of otherwise honest customers.

Or in my case, just not giving EA any money and not even playing their games. That very taint of those two letters is what I'm boycotting, personally.

Note that I've never said securom is a good idea. All I've done is critise people who think that something they disagree with justifies unethical, illegal behaviour that encourages the very thing they are disagreeing with. Prohition doesn't justify the mafia, and securom doesn't justify piracy.