Can somebody explain to me why Baldur's Gate is such a revered classic?

[varulfic]

Honestly, the first Baldur's Gate is pretty awful. The combat is unfair and relies heavily on using exploits and cheap tactics, especially early on when every encounter kills you in one hit. However, it's still worth playing through because it sets up Baldurs Gate 2, which is just as much of a timeless classic as everyone says it is. Baldurs Gate 2 fixed all the flaws of the original - combat relies more on tactics than luck or cheapness, story is more involving and the side characters are fleshed out and have more interactions.

So there's my explanation. Baldurs Gate is a revered classic because it's sequel is awesome.

 

[boag]

ANCIENT MISTERY EVIL must be prevented by the unseemingly normal PC before the Plot Twist kicks in and makes him pivotal to the plot.

I thought BG and BG2 had really good plots. You didn't have a clue what was going on for most of the plot. You follow some map to some inn then go investigate some mines then kill some bandits and close their other mine and then it starts coming together - but for a long time you have no idea what the evil is, apart from some bandits and a big armoured dude who killed Gorion. And in BG2 you're chasing some insane mage around for half the game until he nicks your soul and everything gets revealed. You then chase him some more but still have no idea what's happening until the final chapter.

Neverwinter Nights, KoTOR and Mass Effect just had exactly the same stories though with a few specifics changed.

DA:O was a generic story too but that's allowed since it was introducing a whole new universe, so a simple plot managed to introduce all the factions and races and aspects of the lore very well.

Tell me which of those didnt follow the formula I gave you?

Baldur's Gate 2. Irenicus wasn't an ancient mystery evil. He was just an elven mage tormented by his love for Ellesime, and then blinded by revenge. Nothing was an ancient evil there. You knew from the last game you were a Bhaalspawn, so there was no mystery pivotal plot revelation - you were the plot all along, it was driven by your character.
gee I womder what ancient evil and plot twist I am refering too.

All that happens is half way through the game he gets your soul so you have to get it back. You just happen to save an elven city on the way...It's a very slow paced, well written and tragic adventure story, one of my favourite ever written because of the complexity of Irenicus. He was a real heart wrenching villain (Loghain in DA:O was also great)
your opinion, Saren is just like Irenicus in mine

Dragon Age Origins had you become pivotal to the plot at the very beginning, after the Joining. There was no insane plot twist, like in KoTOR or Mass Effect.

I cant comment on DA, I have not played it.

My point still stands, from what games Ive played, Modern BW is still the same as Old BW, there is literally nothing from the old that isnt substanciated in the new, and there is nothing from the old that is inherently superior to the new. And what complaints i have seen, have stemmed deeply in the fact that people cant play with the DnD system in the Bioware games anymore.

 

[The Last Nomad]

Fuuny, I don't actually remember that happening??? And I replayed though the game quite quickly. But to dwell on one thing is kinda stupid when looking at a game as massive as Baldur's Gate.

 

[endtherapture]

ANCIENT MISTERY EVIL must be prevented by the unseemingly normal PC before the Plot Twist kicks in and makes him pivotal to the plot.

I thought BG and BG2 had really good plots. You didn't have a clue what was going on for most of the plot. You follow some map to some inn then go investigate some mines then kill some bandits and close their other mine and then it starts coming together - but for a long time you have no idea what the evil is, apart from some bandits and a big armoured dude who killed Gorion. And in BG2 you're chasing some insane mage around for half the game until he nicks your soul and everything gets revealed. You then chase him some more but still have no idea what's happening until the final chapter.

Neverwinter Nights, KoTOR and Mass Effect just had exactly the same stories though with a few specifics changed.

DA:O was a generic story too but that's allowed since it was introducing a whole new universe, so a simple plot managed to introduce all the factions and races and aspects of the lore very well.

Tell me which of those didnt follow the formula I gave you?

Baldur's Gate 2. Irenicus wasn't an ancient mystery evil. He was just an elven mage tormented by his love for Ellesime, and then blinded by revenge. Nothing was an ancient evil there. You knew from the last game you were a Bhaalspawn, so there was no mystery pivotal plot revelation - you were the plot all along, it was driven by your character.
gee I womder what ancient evil and plot twist I am refering too.

All that happens is half way through the game he gets your soul so you have to get it back. You just happen to save an elven city on the way...It's a very slow paced, well written and tragic adventure story, one of my favourite ever written because of the complexity of Irenicus. He was a real heart wrenching villain (Loghain in DA:O was also great)
your opinion, Saren is just like Irenicus in mine

Dragon Age Origins had you become pivotal to the plot at the very beginning, after the Joining. There was no insane plot twist, like in KoTOR or Mass Effect.

I cant comment on DA, I have not played it.

My point still stands, from what games Ive played, Modern BW is still the same as Old BW, there is literally nothing from the old that isnt substanciated in the new, and there is nothing from the old that is inherently superior to the new. And what complaints i have seen, have stemmed deeply in the fact that people cant play with the DnD system in the Bioware games anymore.

Bhaalspawn are not an ancient evil. The Time of Troubles, which created the Bhaalspawn, was like 20 years before the game started. The Time of Troubles was a major thing but it was over by the time the games took place - new mortals had become new gods, some of the old gods (eg. Bhaal) were dead. For the most part (until Throne of Bhaal), the Bhaalspawn are relatively unknown, waging cold wars against each other (like you and Sarevok and the people he killed) as opposed to giant great armies and stuff. They're more of an urban myth than anything.

 

[coolbeans21]

I remember that guy kicking my ass 9 ways from hell when I first played it.

The way through the fight is to use Imoens wand of magic missle, interupt his first defensive spell (mirror image, once he starts casting pop of the magic missle.

If he doesn't get that defensive spell up, you and imoen can take him down fairly easy, you dont need xzar and montaron to do it.

After that theres a lot of difficult fights, but I don't remember any kicking my ass quite as much as that one, being a higher level you have more options.

 

[Littaly]

I regard the Baldur's Gate series as two (or three, depending on how you look at it) of the greatest games ever made. And honestly, I don't fault you for feeling the way you do about it.

Computer RPGs from that era are notorious for not telling you what to do. If the otherwise splendid game has one flaw, that would be the one. It kind of assumes you're already familiar with how to use its core mechanics, and if you aren't, it kind of assumes you'll figure it out by yourself. Playing it today, assuming you haven't played DnD based games before, is a bit like learning a new language to read a book. To make matters worse, the mechanics, the numbers and rules that drive the game, are made in a way that makes the beginning much, much tougher than you'd (rightfully) expect it to be. And not a fun, challenging type of tough either, just a rude, unforgiving type of tough.

Fortunately, the sunny side of the whole mess is that once the game gets rolling, it allows for much deeper, more strategic gameplay than most new-school RPGs. It also takes 3/4 of the first game for the story to get to what it's actually about. Before that it's very much your standard "band of adventurers" fare, which arguably is why it becomes so good later on.

Anyway, enough rambling. What I'm trying to say here is, try to stick with it for a while longer, the part you're playing now is not what earned the game its reputation.

edit: also, pro tip: bow and arrow. For some reason it's insanely powerful early on, easily one of the most effective ways of killing stuff.

 

[The Madman]

As pretty much the only worthwhile helpful post here I feel I should actually bother to reply to it (and ignore all those utterly ridiculous insults thrown my way)

I am honestly insulted. I genuinely and truly am. I took the time to answer your question and to explain why I love the game as well as why so many others do and even took the time to try and help out with the fight you were on...

Guess you weren't looking for actual answers, just bait that you could use to ***** about the game. Don't worry though, I've learned my lesson. I hope you get past your difficulties with the game regardless because I feel the BG series is one that should be enjoyed by everyone.

 

[GiantRaven]

I am honestly insulted. I genuinely and truly am. I took the time to answer your question and to explain why I love the game as well as why so many others do and even took the time to try and help out with the fight you were on...

Guess you weren't looking for actual answers, just bait that you could use to ***** about the game. Don't worry though, I've learned my lesson. I hope you get past your difficulties with the game regardless because I feel the BG series is one that should be enjoyed by everyone.

My apologies, I was somewhat butthurt by some of the more negative posts and that caused me to skip over or ignore quite a few others. It was something I shouldn't have said, I'm very sorry.

As far as having to know d&d.. OP, did you even read the manual ?

I know DnD. Perhaps not this edition but others. As for the manual - nope, don't have one.

Fuuny, I don't actually remember that happening??? And I replayed though the game quite quickly. But to dwell on one thing is kinda stupid when looking at a game as massive as Baldur's Gate.

I think it's dwelling on me because it was right in my first hour of the game. That isn't really the time to be throwing insta-kill baddies around. It should be when you're eased into the mechanics of the game and how everything works.

 

[Bostur]

I believe another reason why BG became so popular was that cRPGs made a 10 year leap forward in tech with BG. Due to a long period with few new games or developments.

RPGs basically went from this

to this

 

[kingcom]

I tried Baldur's Gate, but I just couldn't get into it(incoming torrent of hate comments about how I'm a "dirty console gamer" for not enjoying it). I was never into D&D, so I guess that has a lot to do with it. It's the same when I tried Planescape: Torment. The story is great, the game's in-game graphics have aged well... but the actual game-play is horrible.

To each their own.

Dont worry, you didn't actively insult people for liking the game the way the OP did so theres no malice in your direction. Personally I love the combat more than any aspect of the game (along with loving the story and visuals) but since your not coming off as offensive with comments like:

How do people like this piece of shit?

 

[lacktheknack]

How do people like this piece of shit? Even Fallout wasn't this bastardly in it's opening hour.

I'll put it this way:

I like Dwarf Fortress, which is this bastardly at any given moment. And there's no reload button in Dwarf Fortress, if you lose, you have to find an entirely different embark site to try again from the beginning.

Quite frankly, I PREFER to have my ass handed to me over and over again, it actually makes me feel like I'm DOING something rather than just turning pages in a book.

Daggerfall did this too (a game which I love), occasionally having you wake up about three seconds before you get your head shoved up your rear end twice by a Vampire Ancient, along with the story being as easy to break as a snowflake, and it gave me more gratification in progression than Oblivion could have dreamed of.

 

[kingcom]

I think it's dwelling on me because it was right in my first hour of the game. That isn't really the time to be throwing insta-kill baddies around. It should be when you're eased into the mechanics of the game and how everything works.

Funnily enough the game is teaching you the most important mechanic of all. That the game is going to punish you for not planning ahead and saving. What many people love about the Baldurs Gate series and old rpgs in general is that the game is about presenting you with a problem that you need to solve to progress. Think of it like a puzzle game where failure ends in death and complete game over. To break down that first fight for you:

Your meeting an enemy spellcaster for the first time and that means you need to put your learning cap on.
First the mage casts a spell that makes copies of himself (Mirror Image).
The mage then shoots out magic red orbs that hit and do loads of damage (Magic Missile).
You also notice that guards will attack the mage if you get too close.

This is the raw information dump we get. So lets get to puzzle solving now.
So lets take stock. You have two party members:
-Imeon with stealth, short bow skills and a wand of magic missile.
-Your fighter (i think you said): really strong attack, hopefully some armour and a weapon hes proficient in
-The nearby guards.

These are the tools available so lets work out solving the problem.

So you might notice that hitting the mage causes on of his copies to disappear which means that if those copies so that should send off alarm bells indicating that if he gets this spell off killing him becomes far bigger of a problem.

So we need to interrupt his spell before he gets that mirror image off. So lets figure out the best way to do that. Now hitting a mage while casting a spell means it can interrupt and potentially cancel the spell (this is the one aspect of the puzzle you might not know but most rpgs follow a similiar mechanic). So lets look at our tools.

We have 2 characters to attack with and a patrolling set of guards. So if we attack at the same time as the guards are patrolling near us (or we kite back towards them) we can add more attacks to the fight. However that first spell is a quick cast. So what do we have that can instantly cause a hit and damage him.

Aha! Imeons wand of magic missile! The second we see the mage casting. Slam that spacebar and pause the game. Then use the wand of magic missile on him and interrupt the spell. Between you and the guards he should be cut down before he has time to cast another spell! (using another shot from the wand if you need to).

Thats what fights are about in BG, atleast the boss fights. I think that first fight with the few tools you have and the few tools the enemy has is a great way of teaching this method of self evaluation.

 

[The Madman]

My apologies, I was somewhat butthurt by some of the more negative posts and that caused me to skip over or ignore quite a few others. It was something I shouldn't have said, I'm very sorry.

Thank you, my own apologies for the snide 'bitching' remark.

I normally wouldn't bring a topic back if it's slipped from the front page for over a day, but in this case I'm hoping you read this reply and are still curious for an answer to your original why do so many people love this game question. I say that because, go figure, Eurogamer just published a retrospective for the BG series that tells much better than I did why this game is so amazing to so many people.

Have a read, it's not too long and I think it does a good job of summarizing many peoples experience with the series, myself included.

This bit in particular is great:

"When its sequel arrived two years later I would've been happy with more of the same, but Shadows of Amn was like a fine wine, richer and darker, while even more grandiose in its scope and themes. It took the Dungeons & Dragons formula to its logical conclusion, painting adventuring parties not as wandering heroes for hire but as lonely bands of damaged people who repeatedly witness death and suffer loss, roaming the lands together as rootless, surrogate families. The game's vaunted romances, where non-player characters would grow closer to the player and which prefigured those of Mass Effect or Dragon Age, all told stories of terrible loneliness and hurt, while other characters carried forth from the first Baldur's Gate had also suffered great harm."

 

[themind]

Baldur's Gate, like a ton of games from that generation, are revered because of how awesome they were at the time. Like so many of those games, they don't stand the test of time nearly as well as one might assume.

For me it's Diablo. Man, it is BOOOOOOORING to play these days, but when it was released it was the shit everyone was talking about.