Can we talk about the apparent culture of sexual abuse in the american film industry?

[Zhukov]

Secondly though why do all these women only come out the woodwork when the media is ganging up on him and when he's already beaten to the ground? Either show some character and say he's a pig after he makes his pathetic avances and then walk away or when you do anything to get the role don't complain about it later. If your career is more important than your personal integrity, fine. But if you only have the courage to complain about it with the media mob and their pitch forks at your side it makes you a bit of a gutless hypocrite in my opinion.

Well done Escapist. We managed to go an entire half of a page before victim blaming.

Baby steps!

 

[King Billi]

What I'm really curious about in light of this and other celebrity scandals is just how many people are getting away with this kind of behavior right now but who are considered too connected, influential or profitable to be exposed?

It is depressing that so many criminals should only get punished for their crimes when they're old and grey and irrelevant in most peoples minds.

Guess I should just pay more attention to what the stand up comics are saying?

 

[Casual Shinji]

It's not sexual abuse if you're going along with it in exchange for something else, it's a transaction.

You mean, like in exchange for your life? Not saying this is the same thing exactly, but looking at it like that and a rape at gunpoint is also merely a transaction.

No doubt Wienstien is a dirty old man but he didn't force himself on anyone hence there are no victims to begin with. Only calculated self-interests that are either benefited by complying with Wienstien's desires or benefited by throwing rocks at him when he's crucified by the media. Either way it's a hypocrite shit show.

You do know that there are plenty of these actresses, probably most of them, who didn't sleep with him to futher their carreer, and who were made creepy and aggressive physical avances on by Weinstein, at which point they politely turned him down (considering his position) and looked elsewhere, right? That's forcing yourself on someone.

 

[Cicada 5]

Secondly though why do all these women only come out the woodwork when the media is ganging up on him and when he's already beaten to the ground? Either show some character and say he's a pig after he makes his pathetic avances and then walk away or when you do anything to get the role don't complain about it later. If your career is more important than your personal integrity, fine. But if you only have the courage to complain about it with the media mob and their pitch forks at your side it makes you a bit of a gutless hypocrite in my opinion.

Because ours is a society that is more likely to shame and blame a victim than it is to protect or help them. For the women and even men who are victimized like this, no one would believe them and their rapists or harassers are untouchable due to money and fame.

A few days after the Weinstein thing blew up, Terry Crews spoke of how he himself was groped by a male executive at a party in front of his wife no less. He chose to keep silent for the same reason so many women choose to; fear of backlash for accusing a rich and powerful man of a serious crime.

https://www.google.com.ng/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=15&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjA54y4wfLWAhUMSRoKHYb3AIAQFghqMA4&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Ffilm%2F2017%2Foct%2F11%2Factor-terry-crews-sexually-assaulted-by-hollywood-executive&usg=AOvVaw0RptH_wgbnd1VMx5OK7_1u

If a 240 lb man with a reasonably strong career can be afraid to speak out on such a gross violation of his person, imagine what it is like for women with far less to their name? Women who are just starting out young in their careers?

Perverts like Weinstein know that society treats them like they walk on water.

 

[RedRockRun]

Hollywood execs trading jobs for sex? What else is new. But I'm sure they're all a bunch of Republicans, right? The left cares about women.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Must we blame the victims all the time? Plenty of other people we could blame, starting with some guy called Weinstein.

No doubt Wienstien is a dirty old man but he didn't force himself on anyone hence there are no victims to begin with.

Excepting, of course, all the people he forced himself on.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

Must we blame the victims all the time? Plenty of other people we could blame, starting with some guy called Weinstein.

No doubt Wienstien is a dirty old man but he didn't force himself on anyone hence there are no victims to begin with. Only calculated self-interests that are either benefited by complying with Wienstien's desires or benefited by throwing rocks at him when he's crucified by the media. Either way it's a hypocrite shit show.

Lack perspective much? Let's play the pretend game:

Pretend you have a huge dream about becoming a movie star, a dream you've carried with you for a decade or more. You've invested loads of time and effort into taking all those acting classes, your high school choice was influenced by your desire to do acting and your university classes are all about acting. You've poured thousands of hours and dollars into this career choice and chances are good you've moved half-way across America (or even immigrated from abroad) to get a shot at movie acting in Hollywood.

So you show talent, like a lot of aspiring actors in Hollywood do, and you get an agent who's reliable enough that he can get you meetings with casting crews from all the big companies. You manage to really impress on the casting for a major movie and you're called back for a private meeting with the producer. He says that you're all set, you just have to suck his dick and do some doggy style and the contract is yours. When you protest he tells you that it is either that or he'll make sure you never find a job in Hollywood. What do you do?

If you're suggesting that this is a "transaction", it is the same kind of transaction as when someone points a gun at you and tells you that you can give them your wallet or get shot. If you think these women shouldn't complain, you are also saying that everyone who's ever gotten mugged shouldn't complain because they choose to trade their wallet away in exchange for their bodily health.

 

[Wrex Brogan]

When you're rich enough and powerful enough, you tend to have a lot of control over the industry you're in, which when combined with the absolutely horrendous way Western society still treats victims of sexual assault... well, you can probably see why even if this stuff is isolated incidents it can go on unreported for literal decades.

Must we blame the victims all the time?

Well, it is a thread about sexual abuse on the Escapist, so... kinda a given someone's going to do it.

 

[Vanilla ISIS]

It's not sexual abuse if you're going along with it in exchange for something else, it's a transaction.

You mean, like in exchange for your life? Not saying this is the same thing exactly, but looking at it like that and a rape at gunpoint is also merely a transaction.

One involves consent, the other doesn't.

 

[stroopwafel]

You do know that there are plenty of these actresses, probably most of them, who didn't sleep with him to futher their carreer, and who were made creepy and aggressive physical avances on by Weinstein, at which point they politely turned him down (considering his position) and looked elsewhere, right? That's forcing yourself on someone.

Ehmmm..no. These women were all in a position to reject his avances and he didn't physically force himself on anyone. No doubt he's an old perv but this was also used against him by women who furthered their careers by giving him sexual favors. I don't judge but you're a hypocrite when you complain about it later and only when it's 'safe' when the media is ganging up on him. If they were really so bothered by Wienstien being an old creep they should have shown some character and told him on the spot not cower behind public opinion when he's a burning ship wreck. It's dishonest and insincere.

If you're suggesting that this is a "transaction", it is the same kind of transaction as when someone points a gun at you and tells you that you can give them your wallet or get shot. If you think these women shouldn't complain, you are also saying that everyone who's ever gotten mugged shouldn't complain because they choose to trade their wallet away in exchange for their bodily health.

This is preposterous. No one is denying Wienstien is an old perv but you must be really gullible and naive when you think no one in such a position won't try their luck with young and attractive women. It might be questionable but as long as he isn't physically forcing himself on anyone(which he didn't do) these women had the opportunity to reject his avances and walk away. Unless you live in a dream world in which a robber out for your purse would grant you the same courtesy the comparison is limp.

Also let's be honest here, it's not unlike Wiensten hasn't been taken advantage of. Take his wife Georgina Chapman then look at Weinstein. Then a picture of them together. Look at it. LOOK AT IT. Do you think she would have given him the time of day if he wan't a Hollywood big shot? L O L.

Even his wife who knew precisely what kind of man he was drops him like a hot potato the soon Wiener's career and influence goes up in flames. LOL. Yeah, some real 'love' right there.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Ehmmm..no. These women were all in a position to reject his avances and he didn't physically force himself on anyone.

Except for the women he physically forced himself on.

If they were really so bothered by Wienstien being an old creep they should have shown some character and told him on the spot not cower behind public opinion when he's a burning ship wreck.

Which some of them did. Rose McGowan has been telling people he raped her for quite some time, for example.

Now, you might want to give a free pass to a man who has sexually harassed or assaulted many women for years if the victims don't act the way you want them to, but even that doesn't let Weinstein off the hook.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

This is preposterous. No one is denying Wienstien is an old perv but you must be really gullible and naive when you think no one in such a position won't try their luck with young and attractive women. It might be questionable but as long as he isn't physically forcing himself on anyone(which he didn't do) these women had the opportunity to reject his avances and walk away. Unless you live in a dream world in which a robber out for your purse would grant you the same courtesy the comparison is limp.

Because any threat or use of force that isn't physical must obviously not be real. You are severely downplaying the fact that Weinstein threatened these women's careers (a credible threat considering his influence and standing) in order to make them sleep with him. It isn't 'questionable', it is classical coercion ("Do as I say or you will suffer") and is downright illegal. Coercing someone into sex tends to be classified as rape, a felony in California.

It should not be on the actresses to be moral paragons and severely jeopardize their careers as to not be the victims of sexual crimes. It should be on the Weinstein's of the world to not put them in a position where they must choose between being raped or being out of work.

 

[stroopwafel]

It should not be on the actresses to be moral paragons and severely jeopardize their careers as to not be the victims of sexual crimes. It should be on the Weinstein's of the world to not put them in a position where they must choose between being raped or being out of work.

It's not 'coercion'(let alone rape) if you rather suck Wienstein's dick than work at the pizza shop. Or any other job that regular people do and don't make you rich & famous.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

It should not be on the actresses to be moral paragons and severely jeopardize their careers as to not be the victims of sexual crimes. It should be on the Weinstein's of the world to not put them in a position where they must choose between being raped or being out of work.

It's not 'coercion'(let alone rape) if you rather suck Wienstein's dick than work at the pizza shop. Or any other job that regular people do and don't make you rich & famous.

Yes, "suck my dick or lose your fabulous job" is coercion.

It could be the dictionary example of coercion, jfc.

 

[lacktheknack]

Morally bankrupt films ---> morally bankrupt filmmakers.

The biggest problem is that all of these women didn't say anything at the time when it was happening to them.

To that you might say: "They didn't want to ruin their careers."

If that's the case then their careers, money and fame, were more important to them than being sexually abused.
They could have just left Hollywood and get a different job, they could have pressed charges, they could have recorded everything.
It's not sexual abuse if you're going along with it in exchange for something else, it's a transaction.
They gave a Hollywood big shot some sexual pleasure and he gave them a role in a movie.
They're not victims, they're prostitutes.

I've read some testimonies from these women and they included things like:
"I found myself alone with him in his bedroom."
Oh, you "found yourself", did you?
Harvey Weinstein said "EXPECTO PATRONUM!!!" and you've appeared in his bedroom.
Give me a break.

Garbage.

Look up what happened to Tippi Hedren when she tried to not be sexually extorted by Alfred Hitchcock.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Hollywood execs trading jobs for sex? What else is new. But I'm sure they're all a bunch of Republicans, right? The left cares about women.

So, do I just post a picture of Trump now, or...?

Let's keep this as a "problem with powerful men" thing, okay?

 

[09philj]

Hollywood execs trading jobs for sex? What else is new. But I'm sure they're all a bunch of Republicans, right? The left cares about women.

The difference with Bill Clinton is that the women actually wanted to sleep with him.

 

[EternallyBored]

It should not be on the actresses to be moral paragons and severely jeopardize their careers as to not be the victims of sexual crimes. It should be on the Weinstein's of the world to not put them in a position where they must choose between being raped or being out of work.

It's not 'coercion'(let alone rape) if you rather suck Wienstein's dick than work at the pizza shop. Or any other job that regular people do and don't make you rich & famous.

Rape is more difficult, mostly due to standard of evidence, though some of his victims are claiming he crossed the line to rape, but by pretty much every professional or ethical standard written down it would be classified as coercive, I would lose my license if I tried what Weinstein did, a teacher would lose theirs if they threatened a student with bad grades for not sleeping with them, so would a doctor if they threatened a patients diagnosis, even if it wasn?t a serious condition.

Sexual assault is one of those things that?s generally handled by HR or a licensing or professional board rather than the police, but using your position to threaten someone?s job or career if they don?t sleep with you is pretty much textbook coercion and would get you in trouble, only his position as de facto head protected him for as long as it did.

The choice is not a choice between working at a pizza place or sucking Weinstein?s dick, it?s a choice between being able to work in the movie business at all or having a major player actively trying to blackball you from an industry. So more like: ?suck my dick or I?ll make sure the years you spent taking classes, practicing, doing small bit parts or commercials and trying to make connections with other people is wasted?. I don?t know about you but if someone on the social work licensing board threatened to turn my years of degree work and 7 years of work experience in my field into mostly useless ash unless I slept with them, I would consider that pretty damn coercive.

 

[stroopwafel]

The choice is not a choice between working at a pizza place or sucking Weinstein?s dick, it?s a choice between being able to work in the movie business at all or having a major player actively trying to blackball you from an industry. So more like: ?suck my dick or I?ll make sure the years you spent taking classes, practicing, doing small bit parts or commercials and trying to make connections with other people is wasted?. I don?t know about you but if someone on the social work licensing board threatened to turn my years of degree work and 7 years of work experience in my field into mostly useless ash unless I slept with them, I would consider that pretty damn coercive.

Even that is bullshit. Weinstien tried a similar thing with Cara Delevingne and she told him to suck it and still got the part. Didn't put a dent in her career either. Weiner is just trying his chances with hot young women not coercing them. Anyone who did give him some favors did so out of their own volition. Does that make him an old perv? For sure but the movie industry based on looks and 'sex appeal' probably attracts a different kind of person than the local soup kitchen.