Can Windows 10 disable pirated software/hardware?

[Albino Boo]

Console bans aren't because modding your console is illegal. It's because you violated Microsoft's terms of use.

They have the power to do under the terms of Digital Millennium Copyright Act and the EU Copyright Directive. Both of those laws are based the WIPO Copyright Treaty which lead to similar legislation in most developed countries. Lets be absolutely clear any attempt to remove drm is illegal in most jurisdictions and has been for at least a 10 years.

 

[Something Amyss]

The question here in terms of ethics isn't so much about piracy, but the kind of snooping and invasive modifications to files and data that they don't own.

Oh, is that all? I can clear this up pretty easily, then. The thing that's happening is basically the same thing Windows has done since at least XP, maybe earlier, except wrapped up in the histrionic narrative of the day. No concept of "ethics" has been raised in the last couple of decades, because this this sort of behaviour isn't strictly unethical.

It just seems like it's only become an "ethics" issue because "ethics" has been retconned to mean "thing I like s thing I don't."

Now, if we want to talk ethics, Windows 10 is actually snooping on your data in ways it never has before and ways people find questionable. I would be happy to discuss the ethics of this, because I don't think it's ethically sound, except...it's not the topic here. What's the topic here is something carefully reframed to avoid the reality of the situation and then posed as "ethics."

They have the power to do under the terms of Digital Millennium Copyright Act and the EU Copyright Directive. Both of those laws are based the WIPO Copyright Treaty which lead to similar legislation in most developed countries. Lets be absolutely clear any attempt to remove drm is illegal in most jurisdictions and has been for at least a 10 years.

Microsoft has the right to ban consoles without the WIPO treaty or DMCA. A console ban relates to the functionality of a console with respect to the Xbox Live service. Please stop asserting untrue things as fact while complaining about "internet lawyers."

 

[Albino Boo]

[

They have the power to do under the terms of Digital Millennium Copyright Act and the EU Copyright Directive. Both of those laws are based the WIPO Copyright Treaty which lead to similar legislation in most developed countries. Lets be absolutely clear any attempt to remove drm is illegal in most jurisdictions and has been for at least a 10 years.

Microsoft has the right to ban consoles without the WIPO treaty or DMCA. A console ban relates to the functionality of a console with respect to the Xbox Live service. Please stop asserting untrue things as fact while complaining about "internet lawyers."[/quote]

Its a fact that removing DRM is illegal, no matter how you dress things up that will not change. You've clearly made your mind up. I have no interest or investment in changing your mind. I hope your views and outlook bring you great happiness and contentment.

 

[Fdzzaigl]

Even if that works. How long will it then take for pirates to find ways to counter whatever Windows 10 tries to use in order to determine whether or not something is pirated?

Not a single one of their systems will remain undefeated for long. Denuvo tried last year, how long did that last? Like a month or so?

It's just another one in a long line of anti-customer crappy ideas that won't matter in the end.

Respect your customer's wishes and rights. Give them a good product with a decent service before AND after their purchase (that means a decent return policy plus post-purchase support) and people will buy your product. While you're at it, perhaps don't try to sell that same customer's personal information to the highest bidder, just name a fair up-front price.

Until then I'll carefully ignore the daily "upgrade free blablabla" messages. Fuck you Windows 10.

Fun question: what happens when you pirate Windows 10 itself (not a free upgrade for everyone)? Does some sort of self-destruct timer initiate? Lol.

 

[Something Amyss]

Its a fact that removing DRM is illegal, no matter how you dress things up that will not change.

I didn't dress anything up. I didn't even address the DMCA or WIPO, except to point out that console bans have nothing to do with them. What you spoke to there has nothing to do with DRM, with the DMCA, or the WIPO. You are factually wrong, no matter how many more times you come back to this "fact."

However, you know what would be a great way to prove that you're right? Post the relevant information. Except if you did, you would have to link to the relevant laws, where the WIPO and DMCA offer multiple anti-circumvention exceptions that make your DRM statement false as well. I suspect you know this already.

I have no interest or investment in changing your mind.

You know what would change my mind? Evidence.

Except, again, if you post to the relevant laws, they would also link to the relevant exceptions. There are a number of them. I cant't speak so much to the European laws, but I can speak to WIPO and DMCA. I could probably dig up a few court rulings, if you were interested, that deal in this sort of thing. But I don't think you were ever interested.

You may have no interest, but more importantly, you have no capacity. Because what you're saying isn't true. And that's the relevant aspect. And the fact that you tried to equate this to console bans just demonstrates that.

The simplest solution here is to not post untrue things. Especially if you're going to complain about "internet lawyers" not knowing anything.

 

[Happiness Assassin]

The section that everyone seems to be losing their shit over is section 7b in the EULA, seen here:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/servicesagreement/

What people seem to be missing (because I assume they stopped reading to ***** on the internet) is that the EULA only covers these services:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/servicesagreement/#serviceslist

So so, Windows 10 can not just disable any illegitimate copies of software. This will only really affect you if you are using pirated Xbox games or Office 365.

 

[CrystalShadow]

The question here in terms of ethics isn't so much about piracy, but the kind of snooping and invasive modifications to files and data that they don't own.

Oh, is that all? I can clear this up pretty easily, then. The thing that's happening is basically the same thing Windows has done since at least XP, maybe earlier, except wrapped up in the histrionic narrative of the day. No concept of "ethics" has been raised in the last couple of decades, because this this sort of behaviour isn't strictly unethical.

It just seems like it's only become an "ethics" issue because "ethics" has been retconned to mean "thing I like s thing I don't."

Now, if we want to talk ethics, Windows 10 is actually snooping on your data in ways it never has before and ways people find questionable. I would be happy to discuss the ethics of this, because I don't think it's ethically sound, except...it's not the topic here. What's the topic here is something carefully reframed to avoid the reality of the situation and then posed as "ethics."

Yay. Passive agressive sniping. Fun. -_-


You know what? The terms of service people are freaking out about already existed, word for word in windows 7.
People do so love to blow things out of proportion.

Even so, I stand by what I said. The ability to deliberately commit remote sabotage of someone else's computer isn't ethical, and certainly not for such a flimsy pretext.

Note I at no point claimed microsoft was actually doing so. The evidence suggests it's something of a paranoid over-reaction to a clause that has existed for ages.

Doesn't change the fact that what people worry about, if true it would be ethically questionable. But the evidence suggests it isn't true, so, whatever.

We done here? Or do you have more thinly veiled passive agressive insults for me?

 

[FalloutJack]

Pffft. Uhh, no. Have anything ever really disabled anything pirated? When has that anti-pirate software ever worked for more than...a short time? A pirate picks it up, looks at it, grins, and goes "Challenge accepted!". Then, he gets to work with a bunch of others to sift through the code and find work-arounda. And they always do. So much stuff is pirated. In fact, OSs themselves get pirated, so that means this one could too, and be designed to ignore Microsoft promptings to do its sweep if it does that. It'll just go...

 

[Creator002]

I wonder if if will also affect pirated software on a pirated Windows 10 copy. I'm sure we'll get the answer soon, as funny as it will probably be. [footnote]Windows noticing itself as pirated and disabling itself. ^.^[/footnote]

Windows has done that since XP. More than once, I've had to contend with Windows incorrectly declaring itself "non-genuine" and trying to disable all its features. (Pro-tip: Cracking the check was NOT FUN and took about thirty tries to move fast enough to disable all the relevant checks before they restarted each other.)

Oh, I didn't know that. Then again, as far as I know, all our installations of Windows have been genuine and we've had nothing tell us otherwise, so I've never really thought about it before now.

The only difference here is that there shouldn't be any pirated versions out in the wild yet (what with it being... you know... free).

Pirated versions of Windows pre-10 shouldn't get the option to update, but some did anyway. One of my friends and a cousin had pirated versions of Windows 7 and didn't get the update. They were able to download Windows 10 from The Pirate Bay though and upgraded that way. I did a quick search now and, not only is there one with over 2000 seeds, but there's activators too.

Plus, it's not likely the piracy-killing feature would ever get implemented. So no, we're not going to get any answers, hilarious or otherwise.

Aw, well you're no fun!

 

[ReservoirAngel]

I know piracy is a weird legal issue in and itself anyway, but I'm still pretty sure that Microsoft giving their product automatic license to sift through its customers' computer files and disable them without consent would probably be more illegal than having a pirated copy of something.