Can you enjoy entertainment from horrible people?

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SerithVC

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LetalisK said:
I know some people don't partake of certain artists/entertainers/what have you or end their fandom of them for things like political views, their actions/rumors about their actions, or similar other reasons(ie Orson Scott Card or Chris Brown, to give an example of each). I was wondering if anyone here does that sort of thing. Personally, I never have, but I may start.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/26/ian-watkins-lostprophets-guilty-rape_n_4344037.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

Lostprophets is one of my favorite bands, but now whenever I listen to them, it just feels tainted. Ever since this story started coming out, I couldn't listen to them without coming back to this and it ends up depressing me and actually making me feel like a bad person for listening to it.. It might be easier to separate the person and the product for something like political views, but I don't know if I can do it for something like this.

For me it depends on the severity or level of the evil/horribleness/atrocity that they did. In the case of Watkins and the Lostprophets i can completely understand why you just can't separate the music from the person. I'd recommend you just stop listening to the bands music if it bothers you as it understandably does.
 

rasputin0009

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Charles Manson wrote a bunch of good songs. Too bad he did a bunch of crazy shit, though. Can't listen to those songs because his name is synonymous with evil.
 

Frankster

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Most of the time I don't know that my entertainment is made by horrible people so yes, quite easily.
 

Varrdy

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Bertylicious said:
HP Sauce was racist in a totally hilarious, OTT, way though.
Oi, oi, oi! Don't be dissing the greatest sauce ever to grace a breakfast table!
 

Varrdy

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It all boils down to people's individual limits.

Some people (and I use the term loosely here) wont listen to Queen because Freddie Mercury was bisexual or wont listen to rap / hip-hop because it's (mostly) performed by black people. Other people couldn't care less if their favourite performer / singer / drummer etc. snorted coke off a Vietnamese strippers naked bottom, so long as the music is good.

And then again there are the fans who react with vicious anger and bile at any suggestion of wrongdoing by their idols, even if they only got a parking ticket.

Personally, I largely couldn't give a toss what they get up to so long as it's not at Ian Watkins' level. Drugs, drink, whores, stripper, hotel-room trashing, buying cars and then covering them with chrome (tacky!)...meh...not bothered. Racism / homophobia, kiddly-fiddling and being Liam Gallagher - waaaayyy too much!

EDIT - For the record, Queen are awesome! I don't listen to rap / hip-hop though...it's not a race thing, it's just that it's all crap!
 

tzimize

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Of course. I wouldnt stop eating cheese if I found it it was invented by a complete asshole. And neither would you OP.
 

kasperbbs

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Artists personal lifes don't concern me, i just enjoy the art. The only celebrity that i bothered to look up on google was Charlie Sheen, and only because his interview was funnier than anything he ever did on stage.
 

Kennetic

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Well Eddie Vedder of Pearl Jam wishes bad things to happen to me because I like to go to the shooting range. I didn't like Pearl Jam to begin with so it's easy for me to talk shit about him. Orson Scott Card's work I can enjoy despite his homophobic views. Mind you, I don't go to pride parades or really support the movement, but I certainly don't want gay people put in concentration camps. I'm not sure how I would feel if it was an entertainer that I really, really liked. I guess I would feel betrayed and angry but I don't know.

Edit: To respond to Varrdy, I hate Queen because Freddie Mercury's voice sounds fucking annoying. I swear that my ears must be screwed up because I seriously can't listen to Queen and whenever I say that, people look at me like I'm crazy.

daveNYC said:
Having Hitler be a huge fan of his work really doesn't help though.
Line of the century right there folks. Sorry but I blew soda out of my nose when I read that!
 

Bertylicious

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Varrdy said:
Bertylicious said:
HP Sauce was racist in a totally hilarious, OTT, way though.
Oi, oi, oi! Don't be dissing the greatest sauce ever to grace a breakfast table!
I'm sorry but there is a serious case to answer here; I mean it's always "brown" sauce, isn't it? It's never "white" sauce, never "maoi" sauce. We have "red" of course but that's no good because we don't have any native Americans living in Great Britain.
 

Rofl Harris

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thaluikhain said:
ClockworkPenguin said:
On the other hand, if I don't make the association, then I can. For example, I am aware that Wagner is somehow tied to Nazism, but when I hear Flight of the Valkyries I'm thinking about badass Helicopters instead, so I can enjoy it anyway.
His music was popular with them, but he was dead by the time they arose. Not his fault.
The thing against Wagner isn't that he was associated with the Nazis, it's that he was a raving anti-semite.
 

Varrdy

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Bertylicious said:
I'm sorry but there is a serious case to answer here; I mean it's always "brown" sauce, isn't it? It's never "white" sauce, never "maoi" sauce. We have "red" of course but that's no good because we don't have any native Americans living in Great Britain.
Well there's "brown" sauce and then there's HP, which might be the same colour as the lesser brands but is infinitely superior. Interesting fact: It's derived tamaraind chutney, which means it's yet another reminder of Britain's colonial past...oh, well - it still tastes great on a bacon butty!

Oh and if you want to see red people in Britain, just head down to the airport whenever an EasyJet flight from Magaluf is due to land.
 

daveNYC

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Rofl Harris said:
thaluikhain said:
ClockworkPenguin said:
On the other hand, if I don't make the association, then I can. For example, I am aware that Wagner is somehow tied to Nazism, but when I hear Flight of the Valkyries I'm thinking about badass Helicopters instead, so I can enjoy it anyway.
His music was popular with them, but he was dead by the time they arose. Not his fault.
The thing against Wagner isn't that he was associated with the Nazis, it's that he was a raving anti-semite.
Having Hitler be a huge fan of his work really doesn't help though.

Enjoying the art is separate from agreeing with the artist. The strange thing is trying to square the message in Ender's Game and Speaker for the Dead with the views of Card. I'm stuck wondering if he changed his mind since he wrote them, or if he just got caught up in a story that seems at total odds with his worldview?
 

UniversalRonin

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Muspelheim said:
Well, it depends. How horrible are they, and what have they done?
Pretty much exactly this.

I think we all have our personal lines of 'How far is too far?' and how that sits with the context of each artist/ person. For example- Michael Jackson- It comes on the radio and I sing along and still enjoy it, despite some of his odd/ outrageous behaviour. But then Ian Watkins- Like the OP, I used to really enjoy a bit of Lost prophets, (but from the Shinobi VS Dragon Ninja era- I've been out of touch with music for a few years.) but now it does feel a bit tainted. With other forms of media- I have not bothered watching things/ paying for them because someone is a horrible person. I didn't watch Despicable me until I saw it round my brothers house on a dvd he already had. Because I don't like Russell Brand. (Still haven't watched the second one- not especially bothered about how good it is.) Do I care about how brand spends his ill-gotten-gains? No. Not in the slightest, a bit like OSC, I haven't read his books, or seen his movie, his politics are his own, as is his cash. Still doesn't mean he's getting aught from me. (Because my £7.99 on a book makes ALL the difference...)
 

FalloutJack

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Bertylicious said:
FalloutJack said:
Said it before and I'll say it again. HP Lovecraft was a fantastic racist and next to nobody cares.
HP Sauce was racist in a totally hilarious, OTT, way though. Also he is dead so cannot be considered an enemey of the progressive movement towards multi-racial harmony.
Knowing him, he's dead, but still walking around somewhere.
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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FalloutJack said:
Said it before and I'll say it again. HP Lovecraft was a fantastic racist and next to nobody cares.
Someone already pointed out that they did care, so that's kinda funny (even if qualified).

oddly enough, my dad sent me a radio interview about an author a few days ago. The interviewer spoke to the racism, the author of a book on Hoover Phalanx basically denied any racism or xenophobia, and the fans...Well, they did the same in the comments. So, I mean, it's not strictly true. It's a big enough point fans will try and deny it.

But it's also a terrible example.

Not only was Lovecraft batshit crazy, he was a product of a time where racism was a pretty common thing. He died in 1937, when it was still illegal in a good chunk of the country for blacks and whites to be seen romantically involved. Blacks had separate schools, water fountains, and "whites only" was everywhere. caricatures demonising Jews and baby=snatching, big-nosed demons wasn't fringe shit, it was mainstream media. Foreigners? Well, 1937 borders on an especially bad time for certain ones, but Hop on Pop Lovecraft's time wasn't exactly welcoming to ferners.

I should point out that two decades later, the National Guard was required for school integration. and this is a nation where "italian" was considered 'too swarthy.'

Lovecraft was a man born at a time where threats to make the South a "******'s graveyard" were still common.

Lovecraft's racism is less than notable because most of his generation was racist. Good luck on that kind of avoidance.

OT: It won't stop me from enjoying someone's work unless it's somehow related. Say this guy starts writing songs about raping babies. That would put me off. There is a limit on what I will fiscally support, however. I only own one song by LostProphets, and I won't be deleting it, but nor will I buy any of their future works (which was already unlikely).

And, I mean, if people want to put money in the pockets of baby rapers, I can't stop them, but I'm just not going to do so myself.
 

FalloutJack

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Zachary Amaranth said:
Why do you think I said 'next to nobody'. I've only heard like one person ever say so. Before then, I said nobody. You see? Totally learning from experience there.
 

SoranMBane

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That depends on a bunch of different factors, like the exact nature of the artist's douchebaggery, whether the artist's horrible views show up in the work, whether the artist grew up in a time where those views were just the norm (and, to that point, whether the artist is still alive to benefit from a purchase), or whether my money will be going towards any causes I don't like.

If the artist's views show up in the work, or if the artist did something especially unforgivable, I probably won't enjoy it no matter what. If the artist's views don't show up the work, but the artist is dead, I can generally ignore it and just enjoy the work. If the artist isn't dead, and especially if the artist is likely to donate their funds to some sort of hate group, then I might still be able to enjoy the work on its own, but I'll be sure to do so in a way that doesn't give the artist any of my money, like renting or buying used.
 

Someone Depressing

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Me being the OCD afflicted me, at the end of movies, I'll basically write down the entire crew's names, and do extensive research on all of them. I don't watch movies much.

Especially Orson Scott Card.

In the end, probably not. For some strange, idiotic reason, I'd probably, somehow, find their beliefs symbolised in the movie in some weird, conspiracy theorist way.