casual gamers

[Leonax]

The casual market is absolutely MASSIVE in comparison to the specific 'gamer' label. It's evident everywhere: the Wii has infiltrated millions of living rooms, retirement homes and even cruise ships. It allows parents to join in with what their kids are interested in, without having to worry about complex button sequences or advanced tactics required from many modern day fighters/shooters etc.

The elderly like it because it's something to get them moving, without being overly strenuous. Something as simple as Wii Tennis can do wonders for joint flexibility, which is a major selling point for old people.

The Wii has become kind of a pop culture symbol, just like Macs. It's in movies (Tropic Thunder is a prime example), it's on TV, it's everywhere. I think one of the major draws to the console is that it essentially lets people game without people calling them a gamer, which is still somewhat of a negative stigma in society. It's good for a few minutes of carefree fun, where you don't need to get involved in a game's story to be entertained. It's just something that people can pick up, have fun with, and put down again.

As for the whole Wii Fit deal, most people think 'Hey! I can play videogames and lose weight! Cool!'. I would say that their money would be better spent on, say, a gym membership, but I can understand where they're coming from. It's been statistically proven that approaching menial tasks as a quest or challenge in a videogame produces greater results with a higher efficiency. Just look at Weight Watchers and their 'points' system. You have a certain amount of points dedicated to different foods, and you have to manage your points to last you throughout the day, and then replenish your points while sleeping, and then continuing the next day.

Of course, with the Wii's immense popularity, of course there's going to be imitators. Microsoft wants in on the casual market, and it's extremely evident that their goal is to steal market share from Nintendo. Personally, it just looks like a stupid, cheap knockoff, but let's see what the general public thinks of it before we condemn Microsoft's iffy marketing strategies.

The downside to this 'casual craze' is that the hardcore crowd is getting screwed over. Nintendo basically has nothing left for its fans, and are just letting third-party companies push out shovelware after shovelware, and the market is flooded with terrible games. At least Microsoft/Sony have their respective 'real' games to fall back on if the casual market dies out, but Nintendo are in a very precarious position.

I doubt anyone will read this all, but props if you do!

 

[Phoenix Arrow]

What constitutes a casual game exactly?
I mean casual implies that you pick it up, play it for a while then do something else. But this is what I do with fighting games and I've heard them described as casual games.
Puzzle games are generally what people are thinking of but isn't Portal a puzzle game? I loved that myself.

 

[LivemeLifefree]

I read it all, and like I said for "real games" on the Wii they keep getting horrible delays. Nintendo can't control what third parties make, it's not their fault developers are using the system for so many "casual games". Also, some of the sales for Wiifit are because of the balance board because a couple of games plan on using itlater, like Skate it! and Don King Presents.

 

[Leonax]

What constitutes a casual game exactly?

I'd say a casual game is one where the mechanics of the game are instantly comfortable and usable by any person of any skill level. The difference between, say, Wii Tennis, and Soul Caliber 4, is that in Wii Tennis, the entire game consists of swinging the remote around. That's it. No super-mega-ultra-hyper combo's to memorise, you just hit a virtual ball to a friend. In SC4, while there is that element of pick-up-and-play, there's also this extremely deep fighting system that takes a large amount of playing to become competent at it.

I read it all, and like I said for "real games" on the Wii they keep getting horrible delays. Nintendo can't control what third parties make, it's not their fault developers are using the system for so many "casual games". Also, some of the sales for Wiifit are because of the balance board because a couple of games plan on using itlater, like Skate it! and Don King Presents.

While it's true that Nintendo can't control what third parties are making, perhaps they should consider making some more core gaming titles. They've been surviving on Mario, Metroid, and Zelda for how long now? A new IP would go a LONG way in revitalizing their starving fanbase, in my opinion. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but do Nintendo really have anything else to offer now that they've released something for their three main series'?

 

[Phoenix Arrow]

What constitutes a casual game exactly?

I'd say a casual game is one where the mechanics of the game are instantly comfortable and usable by any person of any skill level. The difference between, say, Wii Tennis, and Soul Caliber 4, is that in Wii Tennis, the entire game consists of swinging the remote around. That's it. No super-mega-ultra-hyper combo's to memorise, you just hit a virtual ball to a friend. In SC4, while there is that element of pick-up-and-play, there's also this extremely deep fighting system that takes a large amount of playing to become competent at it.

Thanks for clearing that up.
Well those sorts of games are never going to stifle the mainstream gaming industry, and to say they all suck is a bit too cynical. These games are just something you play to fill time and is a totally different market to mainstream games. Just let the people who play these games get on with it and enjoy themselves.
There will always be people like myself that think games are something to be admired. I can just hope that Valve and co. can keep making games with some actual depth to keep people like me happy.

 

[RedElectric]

Fuck man I'm so tired of this 'casual' and 'hardcore' gamer shit! If you really were a 'hardcore' gamer, you'd game anything, as long as it was fun and you had five free minutes. The term hardcore has been taken by gamers and abused in EVERY IMAGINABLE WAY in order to pervert the definition into a simple mantra: 'boobs, weapons and swears a hardcore games makes'. Seriously. The stuff that STARTED gaming today would be defined as 'casual', and summarily hated.

If you think that you can't have fun with a game that's without some form of 'adolescent maturity' factor (read above mantra), or with a game that doesn't try to gnaw your face of from jump, that's fine...limit yourself to playing the same stinking games over and over again and STOP WHINING ABOUT IT! I swear, this self-definition of what is a 'real' game is quite possibly the worst form of narcissistic mental-masturbation I've seen since reading Ayn Rand. The worst part about it is that Rand could actually ENTERTAIN me.

Summary: YOU ARE NOT A HARDCORE GAMER IF YOU CANNOT AND ARE NOT WILLING TO HAVE FUN PLAYING GAMES OTHER THAN WHAT YOU THINK SHOULD BE MADE/PLAYED!

Glad i finally got that off my chest.

 

[Leonax]

What constitutes a casual game exactly?

I'd say a casual game is one where the mechanics of the game are instantly comfortable and usable by any person of any skill level. The difference between, say, Wii Tennis, and Soul Caliber 4, is that in Wii Tennis, the entire game consists of swinging the remote around. That's it. No super-mega-ultra-hyper combo's to memorise, you just hit a virtual ball to a friend. In SC4, while there is that element of pick-up-and-play, there's also this extremely deep fighting system that takes a large amount of playing to become competent at it.

Thanks for clearing that up.
Well those sorts of games are never going to stifle the mainstream gaming industry, and to say they all suck is a bit too cynical. These games are just something you play to fill time and is a totally different market to mainstream games. Just let the people who play these games get on with it and enjoy themselves.
There will always be people like myself that think games are something to be admired. I can just hope that Valve and co. can keep making games with some actual depth to keep people like me happy.

While I agree that casual gaming will never envelop the core crowd, it seems that the 'Big 3' are placing a LOT of marketing emphasis on snagging people who don't really play games, and that's becoming a bit of a worry. Like was mentioned before, why create a vast, enthralling world full of character, depth, and charisma, spending millions of dollars on a multi-year development cycle, when you can make more money by knocking up a game that solely involves shooting a ball into a hole (Peggle, I'm looking at you*) in the space of a few weeks for a greatly reduced cost? In the end, the company wants to make the most money from the least amount of effort involved, and at the moment, casual games are the way to do so, and hence, quality of future titles might suffer.

*Peggle is amazing fun, by the way. Spent about 7 hours straight at a mate's place one night playing through to completion. We're both Grand Peggle Masters now!

Fuck man I'm so tired of this 'casual' and 'hardcore' gamer shit! *words words words*

You're basically right, but we're not discussing what makes you a 'hardcore' gamer vs a 'casual' one. There's clearly a large chasm between the two TYPES of games, where one might have no depth at all, and the other will take hundreds of hours to complete. Of course a hardcore gamer can play casual games, but it doesn't work so well the other way around. I can't imagine many 70 year olds genuinely being interested in say, Gears of War or World of Warcraft.

 

[LivemeLifefree]

What constitutes a casual game exactly?

I'd say a casual game is one where the mechanics of the game are instantly comfortable and usable by any person of any skill level. The difference between, say, Wii Tennis, and Soul Caliber 4, is that in Wii Tennis, the entire game consists of swinging the remote around. That's it. No super-mega-ultra-hyper combo's to memorise, you just hit a virtual ball to a friend. In SC4, while there is that element of pick-up-and-play, there's also this extremely deep fighting system that takes a large amount of playing to become competent at it.

I read it all, and like I said for "real games" on the Wii they keep getting horrible delays. Nintendo can't control what third parties make, it's not their fault developers are using the system for so many "casual games". Also, some of the sales for Wiifit are because of the balance board because a couple of games plan on using itlater, like Skate it! and Don King Presents.

While it's true that Nintendo can't control what third parties are making, perhaps they should consider making some more core gaming titles. They've been surviving on Mario, Metroid, and Zelda for how long now? A new IP would go a LONG way in revitalizing their starving fanbase, in my opinion. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but do Nintendo really have anything else to offer now that they've released something for their three main series'?

Nintendo's making Disaster Day of Crisis, and it's said Nintendo of America is bringing Project H.A.M.M.E.R. back, along with a few new ideas. The new ideas keep getting put on hold so the teams can work on other games.

 

[Leonax]

Nintendo's making Disaster Day of Crisis, and it's said Nintendo of America is bringing Project H.A.M.M.E.R. back, along with a few new ideas. The new ideas keep getting put on hold so the teams can work on other games.

Thanks for clearing that up for me, I can't say I'm 100% up to date on what Nintendo's up to these days.

 

[Aries_Split]

What constitutes a casual game exactly?

I'd say a casual game is one where the mechanics of the game are instantly comfortable and usable by any person of any skill level. The difference between, say, Wii Tennis, and Soul Caliber 4, is that in Wii Tennis, the entire game consists of swinging the remote around. That's it. No super-mega-ultra-hyper combo's to memorise, you just hit a virtual ball to a friend. In SC4, while there is that element of pick-up-and-play, there's also this extremely deep fighting system that takes a large amount of playing to become competent at it.

I read it all, and like I said for "real games" on the Wii they keep getting horrible delays. Nintendo can't control what third parties make, it's not their fault developers are using the system for so many "casual games". Also, some of the sales for Wiifit are because of the balance board because a couple of games plan on using itlater, like Skate it! and Don King Presents.

While it's true that Nintendo can't control what third parties are making, perhaps they should consider making some more core gaming titles. They've been surviving on Mario, Metroid, and Zelda for how long now? A new IP would go a LONG way in revitalizing their starving fanbase, in my opinion. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but do Nintendo really have anything else to offer now that they've released something for their three main series'?

Nintendo's making Disaster Day of Crisis, and it's said Nintendo of America is bringing Project H.A.M.M.E.R. back, along with a few new ideas. The new ideas keep getting put on hold so the teams can work on other games.

Project HAMMER! Yes! Maybe I'll find some use for my Wii.

 

[LivemeLifefree]

Nintendo's making Disaster Day of Crisis, and it's said Nintendo of America is bringing Project H.A.M.M.E.R. back, along with a few new ideas. The new ideas keep getting put on hold so the teams can work on other games.

Thanks for clearing that up for me, I can't say I'm 100% up to date on what Nintendo's up to these days.

It's hard to be, they're so hush hush about everything. They don't let anything out these days because there's non-stop delays. If you thought Brawl was bad Disaster Day of Crisis was suppose to be a launch game. After they realised all these problems and errors and such they stopped announcing a lot of games so early 'till they're somewhat close to a release. As for the Project H.A.M.M.E.R. remember I put "it's said". A worker for Nintend of America said to his class he was going to work on it again, but Nintendo never said that it's back into full production.

 

[Wargamer]

Put simply, the Wii is the most amazing toy ever made. The moment you start treating it like a game console, it fails.

Aside from the seriously retarded Halo Fanboys and WoWtards, I don't think anyone who plays videogames wants to. Seriously, would you rather drive a Dodge Viper in Gran Turismo 5, or drive a Dodge Viper round a racetrack for real? Obviously, you'd rather do the real thing.

The reason games are popular should be obvious by now; we CAN'T do the real thing. Closest I can get is jumping in my Ford Focus and putting the hammer down on the motorway or a quiet country road (whilst praying there's no cops or speed cameras around). It just isn't the same, especially when you factor in risk and cost.

This is where the Wii wins. If I can't go swordfighting, I'll settle for playing a swordfighting game... but I'd rather play a game where I actually get to swing something around as if I really am using a sword, as opposed to mashing buttons on a controller.

This is why the Wii works, up to a point. The problems start when you realise that its clever motion-sensor setup is actually counter-productive in many cases. Take Mario Kart Wii. I truly HATE using the Wiimote because it usually leaves me skidding off the wrong way. I can drive, I can drive well, and given the chance I could throw a 150cc go-kart around the track for real... and I know damn well that if I turned left and initiated a powerslide IT WOULD NOT SLIDE RIGHT! Thus, the Gamecube controller wins because, though less realistic, it at least responds to my commands.

The final appeal of the Wii is the silliness of it. Just as with Guitar Hero, nobody playing Wii Sports can deny it's silly seeing four people stood up with little white sticks pretending they're at Wimbledon. You also can't deny it's bloody good fun!

The Wii holds a monopoly on party games, but it's not fit for anything else.

 

[Rusman]

I would say I am a "Hardcore" gamer, I love games that I can play and then 30 hours later realise I have been fired from my job, lost my girlfriend and failed University. I have my xbox 360 and a PC for this. But sometime, In my lunch breaks or whatever, I want to play a game that I won't get too sucked in by, just something to kill and an hour with, a casual game if you will and that's why I also own a Wii.

There is a market for both type of game and plenty of damn good reasons to both, your not going to convert "casual gamers" into "hardcore" ones, but its damn easy for "hardcore" gamers to enjoy casual games... They just have to remove there heads from their own arse's first.

 

[RedElectric]

Yeah...it is more about the games i can somewhat see that....i suppose i just let the anger build up in me for a little too long before i wrote my post. I'll think about it more and post again.

 

[Iron Mal]

I see both sides of the casual gamer...white rectangle thing. On the one hand you can't turn around and disregard them for not playing 'real games' since, after all, what is a 'real game' then?

On the other hand, this doesn't give casual gamers an excuse to get agitated at more 'elite' gamers for demaning more of a challange from games (not every game has to be compiled of nothing but minigames...even if it does make a nice change of pace evry now and then).

 

[Anton P. Nym]

What I like about casual gamers is that they don't turn around to developers and whine about how devs don't cater to their every whim and desire and so devs are abusive and hurty and touching "real gamers" in their bathing suit places. Sheesh.

I like hard core games, myself, but given the company I'd have to keep if I called myself a "hardcore gamer" I think I'd rather adopt the "casual gamer" title.

-- Steve

 

[RedElectric]

Which casual games do not have a challenge with them, is what i am wondering. And i guess what constitutes a challenge? I mean, i play Wii Sports and sure the controls are accessible and rather easy to pick up on, yet the games themselves are really rather tough to get good at let alone master(example of boxing, exception of baseball).

And are the games of Wii Sports actually mini-games? I mean, these games convey the complete spirit of the originals (here again, exception baseball)so does the fact that they aren't stand-alone titles with oodles of extra options make them 'mini-games'? Let's get really specific here, cause i want to understand so that i don't blow up at these little talks anymore.

 

[inventory]

I know its a long post and I do respect your input Retoru but you missed my point. I dont hate casual gamers. " There's something there for everyone, and personally I think casual titles are helping the gaming industry. They are creating a very large new customer base, and some of those new gamers will branch out into more involved genres of gaming and cause additional units to be sold. Additional units moving means more capital going to the game makers, more capital to the game makers means they can make more games, more games means more fun for us all, casual and hardcore alike." My point is that they will just keep making profitable casual games. Look at the Wii's upcoming titles.

 

[inventory]

this is the last post im gonna make here and i dont know if anyone is going to see it or not and im not trying to bump this honestly but this is a really great forum. I guess i should have added in the first post that im not against casual gaming and i knew id be branded an elitist snob for it but i wanted to put it out there anyway. Some of you got the point I was trying to make but most of you didnt. Defining casual gaming and gamers was not what the topic was about. I just dont like the influence of casual games (Wii fit, play, music, animal crossing, wii flail, ... ect) on games like oblivion and Bioshock.